[Homo Erectus]

BlackBerry maker RIM suffers collateral damage from Nokia news

BlackBerry maker RIM suffers collateral damage from Nokia news - thestar.com

[jrohland]

More USA/Europe centric financial reporting. Because of the rest of the Earth is just dirt.

[[email protected]]

More USA/Europe centric financial reporting. Because of the rest of the Earth is just dirt.

Not dirt. But much of the world's consumers aren't paying $500 for cell phones in large numbers yet.

Not yet... But all things change.

I just got back from a month long trip to Japan, and while I noticed BBs scattered about, the iPhone and Samsung were ubiquitous.

So many here(not accusing you) try to make this a U.S. bias against RIM thing.

It's much more a matter of economics than geography...

[bbzak]

Another piece of negative press.

Squeeze as much as you can, but RIM aint gonna die soon.

[Sith_Apprentice]

While this is negative it isnt altogether unfounded.
RIM is going down a similar path to Nokia.
-Massive market share lose
-Huge issues with current portfolio sales
-Transition to a new OS
-Cutting thousands of jobs

The bright side of that article is that RIM is indeed a few quarters behind Nokia, and they are implementing cost saving measures earlier in the process. They also will have their new smartphones out this year, a couple of quarters after their first operating loss. Nokia had an operating loss of 1 billion euros last year, on sales of 38 billion. Prior year (2010) they had an operating profit of 2 billion on sales of 42 billion. They are a much larger company than RIM and are hurting badly. Nokia also has the bond payments next year, which will definitely hurt them, while RIM has no debt at this time.

While there are parallels things are far from the same, and RIM has tried to fix things sooner in the path than Nokia did. Lets see if it can help them derail the runaway train they have been on.

[playbookster]

Nokia just shut down their research centre here in Vancouver.

[neteng1000]

We in Canada are our worst enemies. I find our Canadian press talk more sh1t about RIM than anyone else. You'd think that they would report some positive press sometimes to help pump up our fellow teammate. We suck!

[Vee_G]

Nokia just shut down their research centre here in Vancouver.

I didn't know that Nokia had a research centre in Vancouver, but wow things aren't going too well for them.

[the_sleuth]

In financial terms, RIM is in far better shape than Nokia due to no DEBT. Majority of Nokia's revenue is from feature handsets (commodities) and Symbian smartphones. Both products are in their sunset days and revenue is declining rapidly as a result. Android phones are being flooded into emerging markets from Samsung, ZTE, and Huawei at very low price points.

Nokia's new Lumia line of smartphones have generally received favourable reviews but represent a sliver of Nokia's revenue and will not save the company from bankruptcy restructuring.

[TGR1]

I didn't know that Nokia had a research centre in Vancouver, but wow things aren't going too well for them.

I used to work right next to that building and saw it built. It's been there for ~10 years. Quite a blow to the local economy I think

[Dapper37]

It seems clear to me that the biggest difference between nokia/MSwinmo and RIM with the up coming BB10 is the installed user base. Witch = product anticipation!. People around the world are aware and waiting for BB10, They will give it a look if not a shot. As much as people try to tarnish their image they are still the youngest and most innovative of the three. Deep down more so than the "me 2's" of the smart phone industry (mentioned above) people want to see RIM come back. If BB10 offers the old BB experience together with the power to run and create cool content. People will be back.
Not to mention the millions of users that come just for security! GO RIM!
Things like having a fantastic product fan site matter. Seriously, where do I go to get passionate about Nokia or MS? WPcentral, never been there! i bet its an echo chamber!

[rigwrecker]

meh.... more negative rhetoric, SSDD. (Same sh!t, different day). What do these people have an agreement to break stories late about RIM every day so it stays in circulation forever? This isn't news (old) by any stretch of the imagination, on the other hand, I did find out how nokia is doing. Mind you, if nokia actually is in this shape, to that degree or not, idk... as journalists hardly ever sensationalize the (always factual) never late stories from weeks past news.
I really hope that BB10 gets a fair shake. That being said, RIM has to "play the ace up their sleeve" (I really hope they have one!) when they market the BB10 (ANY FREAKING DAY NOW). RIM (at very least) has to get some viral you tube clips going. Honestly 3 1/2 months isn't very long to "pump your own tires" especially considering the state of the company. RIM has to follow through, just building BB10 OS (IMO the going to be sweetest OS ever!!) sadly, isn't enough... MARKET THAT DAMN THING!!!!!
In all honesty, I don't really care how nokia is doing, as long as RIM is doing better.

[rigwrecker]

I just got back from a month long trip to Japan, and while I noticed BBs scattered about, the iPhone and Samsung were ubiquitous.
So many here(not accusing you) try to make this a U.S. bias against RIM thing.
It's much more a matter of economics than geography...

I work in New Zealand, the same can be said for the iphone & android there. from what I saw, mostly work, not much play though.
this may not be much of a comparison as I work in rural areas, but did get to go into a few towns nearby.

[Pete6]

We in Canada are our worst enemies. I find our Canadian press talk more sh1t about RIM than anyone else. You'd think that they would report some positive press sometimes to help pump up our fellow teammate. We suck!

The reason is that it is far easier to write negatively than otherwise. It also makes better reading for the many morons who expect to fail themselves and so are happy to read of others who are also failing.

[otacon]

Negative news are news that sells.... Just look in the papers every day and there are more bad news than good. Human nature makes us like to look at car wrecks...

[Rickroller]

People around the world are aware and waiting for BB10, They will give it a look if not a shot. !

People on CB are aware that BB10 is coming, but "around the world"..hardly. Are carriers around the world advertising BB10? Don't think so. Are there worldwide television ads promoting BB10? Don't think so. I'd have to say the general public assumes RIM won't even be around next year, let alone know they are coming out with a new OS.

And while people will probably give BB10 a look when it comes out, if RIM doesn't have an app ecosystem in place with Netflix, Skype, Kindle, ____ with Friends..then there won't be much incentive to give it "a shot" to the average consumer

[CHIP72]

Not dirt. But much of the world's consumers aren't paying $500 for cell phones in large numbers yet.

Not yet... But all things change.

I just got back from a month long trip to Japan, and while I noticed BBs scattered about, the iPhone and Samsung were ubiquitous.

So many here(not accusing you) try to make this a U.S. bias against RIM thing.

It's much more a matter of economics than geography...

Though I think the whole "emerging economies will save RIM due to low Blackberry price points" is highly overstated (there are also Android OS and Windows Phone OS with low price points), I don't think Japan is a good example here; Japan is a first-world economy. A more accurate barometer of where things stand for RIM in much of the world would be to see adoption rates in regions or countries like Eastern Europe/Russia, South America, and China.

[CHIP72]

While this is negative it isnt altogether unfounded.
RIM is going down a similar path to Nokia.
-Massive market share lose
-Huge issues with current portfolio sales
-Transition to a new OS
-Cutting thousands of jobs

The bright side of that article is that RIM is indeed a few quarters behind Nokia, and they are implementing cost saving measures earlier in the process. They also will have their new smartphones out this year, a couple of quarters after their first operating loss. Nokia had an operating loss of 1 billion euros last year, on sales of 38 billion. Prior year (2010) they had an operating profit of 2 billion on sales of 42 billion. They are a much larger company than RIM and are hurting badly. Nokia also has the bond payments next year, which will definitely hurt them, while RIM has no debt at this time.

While there are parallels things are far from the same, and RIM has tried to fix things sooner in the path than Nokia did. Lets see if it can help them derail the runaway train they have been on.

Huh? Nokia has already moved on to its next mobile OS platform, and going through the financial pains of trying to grow that platform. RIM hasn't introduced their next mobile OS platform yet, and hasn't experienced the growing pains of trying to grow that platform at this point. (This doesn't even get into the issue that RIM should have introduced their next generation mobile OS no later than fall 2011.) RIM is earlier on in the same process that Nokia is going through, and things will probably get worse for RIM, both before and for a number of months after BB 10 OS launches, before their situation gets better.

There's no guarantee Nokia will be able to overcome their problems, but I do think that if they can overcome them, they probably will turn things around sooner than RIM will.

The biggest advantage RIM has relative to Nokia is the current lack of debt.

[Justthecrack]

Not dirt. But much of the world's consumers aren't paying $500 for cell phones in large numbers yet.

In America hardly no one pays $500 for a phone either. Most people get discounts due to 1 or 2 year contracts. I could pre-order GS3 or iPhone 4S right now for between $170- $220.

It's just lazy reporting and nothing more.

[app_Developer]

In America hardly no one pays $500 for a phone either. Most people get discounts due to 1 or 2 year contracts. I could pre-order GS3 or iPhone 4S right now for between $170- $220.

And the carriers pay the rest, which is why RIM used to have such a tremendous gross margin. They don't enjoy the same margins now in countries where carrier subsidies are not the norm.

It's just lazy reporting and nothing more.

One can always read RIM's own financial statements and the CEO and CFO's own comments to see how the emerging market strategy doesn't pay nearly as well. Or look at a financial report from RIM's peak years and see how much of that profit came from the US.

[meltbox360]

Big difference between Nokia and RIM. RIM has a userbase that ALL use smartphones and so when BB10 comes along they will get a huge chunk of the current users moving to BB10 which means RIM's move to BB10 has a good chance at generating a significant return. Nokia moved to a whole new OS and image without a large userbase that used windows phone and got poor results. RIM can transfer over whatever momentum they have left. Nokia could not and so as soon as RIM has BB10 out they will be ahead of Nokia in terms of transitioning. They are in a better situation and their foreseeable future looks brighter than Nokias.