[ekafara]

So I'm sure by now most people have heard what Apple announced today. It is yet to be released but I'm sure it has RIM thinking. So what are they going to do? Hope that they have a patent to show Apple or come out with some left field that we don't know about?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[FigureThisOut]

Probably have been busy talking to lawyers all day.

[berklon]

Probably have been busy talking to lawyers all day.

I hope they have something more up their sleeves (and soon) than just talking to lawyers.

[FigureThisOut]

I hope they have something more up their sleeves (and soon) than just talking to lawyers.

Personally, I've felt that BBM would become cross-platform. I don't see any
circumstances as to which Apple wouldn't allow such an app to be used for the
iPhone. If they rejected it for petty reasons, that's a big legal fight.

Would remind me of Apple vs Google in the whole Google voice app fiasco.

[howarmat]

they are going to release a PB update tonight possibly .....but i dont see anything that Apple release that is legaly wrong in imessaging. its all been done before and not just with BBM

[Economist101]

Personally, I've felt that BBM would become cross-platform. I don't see any
circumstances as to which Apple wouldn't allow such an app to be used for the
iPhone. If they rejected it for petty reasons, that's a big legal fight.

Would remind me of Apple vs Google in the whole Google voice app fiasco.

I think you're missing the point. BBM is intended to attract people to RIM devices. Making it possible to use BBM on other devices defeats its only purpose, as it doesn't generate any of its own revenue. Apple's about selling devices, not stealing messaging from BBM.

The other thing to consider is that Apple's quarterly iOS sales rate is up to the 30 million device range once you add the iPad and iPod Touch (it was 29-30 million last quarter, vs RIM's 15 million). Therefore, the potential for growth of iMessages is huge, even if it has no effect on sales.

[Economist101]

Seriously, you think a company like APPLE wouldn't have made sure this was legal before announcing it?

Good grief, some people can't accept the Apple is spitting on RIM and taking their trademark application and doing it better.

To be fair, these days it seems everything violates some patent somewhere. As a result, I'm not sure it's possible to know that a software feature is "legal" until it's been out there and potential patent holders have responded (or remained silent). The thing about Apple is that with $60 billion in cash/cash equivalents banked, you have to believe that their not going to shy away from litigating with anyone who won't accept a reasonable licensing payment.

[ekafara]

...

I don't see Apple doing it better then RIM everyone has tried and failed so far. Its not out yet so its tough to say if its going to be even half as good. We'll see though.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[sleepngbear]

Just because Apple is doing it, it automatically has to be better, right? Sure thing pal. It could also be construed as a me-too by Apple if I wanted to be equally obnoxious. Not saying they won't do it well, but to come in here with your first post and arrogantly assert that they're going to do it better is just begging to get your backside handed to you.

Go back to your Apple forum.

[grahamf]

i'm curious to see how it compares during actually usage. it could end up being like Facetime vs PlayBook video chat (hint: everyone seems to agree that the video and audio on the playbook is much smoother and consistent than facetime)

[scorpiodsu]

Just because Apple is doing it, it automatically has to be better, right?

I do agree because it doesn't mean that if Apple does it, it's better than everyone else. BUT given their track record, each time they implement something into the OS that's already been existent, it turns out to be better and easier to use than what was already out. Not saying this is the same case, but it's a good chance given the history. And the one thing that will make it good is the ability to start and finish chats on different iOS devices. That's already a step above other IM clients. Sure you can login in AIM on your phone and then you tablet but you won't see all the same convo history like we will with Apple's client. But again, not saying it will be better but it's a good chance

[sober2ndthought]

Just because Apple is doing it, it automatically has to be better, right? Sure thing pal. It could also be construed as a me-too by Apple if I wanted to be equally obnoxious. Not saying they won't do it well, but to come in here with your first post and arrogantly assert that they're going to do it better is just begging to get your backside handed to you.

Go back to your Apple forum.

You right it doesn't necessarily mean it is better. The real question is it a good enough replacement?

As someone who loves my Blackberry it pains me to say this but I think it is over for RIM and the company only has itself to blame.

The iPhone came out in 2007, the mobile computing industry changed. People now expected their phones to be do a lot more. They essentially there phone to be a pocket computer. Four years later and RIM is still trying to come up with a device which is comparable to the first iPhone. The first Torch comes very close but it isn't good enough. Browsing is still very awkward and App World is still largely void of any good apps.

However, RIM had one thing which kept it competitive and that was its messaging platform which is still second to none. Particularly Blackberry Messenger. This was enough to keep RIM competitive, after all who wants a phone which could do a lot of gimmicky things but could not function properly as a phone. But the only thing a good messaging system did was buy RIM time to catch up to Apple on create a mobile computer while Apple tried to catch up to RIM on creating a good messaging phone.

This move clearly shows that Apple is moving forward and trying to catch up to RIM on the messaging front. Last year Apple updated its email system so that it would be far more competitive with RIM's far superior email system. They are almost caught up to where RIM is currently, in fact for larger corporation it might even been a viable replacement (email is stored in house as opposed to RIM servers). Now they release a messaging platform which could be a decent replacement to Blackberry Messenger.

As for RIM it is not clear what they are trying to do. The general consensus is that for RIM to catch up they need to improve the specs of their phones and they need to overhaul the dated Blackberry OS. For a while it seemed like that is what they were doing first they released the Torch which I believed was a stop gap measure until they brought out there new QNX based devices. However, one year later we are getting a new Torch running the still dated Blackberry OS code, which no indication of change and the new Torch has which are comparable to the competition of one year ago.

RIM had plenty of time to catch up, but it seems they failed to recognize that they needed to adapt to a new market while at the same time maintaining their strengths in the existing market. It could have been done but RIM failed to do it.

That being said, I still think RIM has one last shot at survival. That is ditch Blackberry OS altogether. It is way too late to keep beating that drum. Adopt Android but leave Blackberry Connect in the background. That could be enough for them to stave of this tide from Apple.

--Edit--


One thing I forgot to mention is this in the last 4 years Apple has been improving on its strengths. Browsing has gradually gotten better, better specs have been the ability to support better apps and now with this cloud based service we have opened a door to something new.

By contrast, RIM has done nothing to improve its messaging system. It has been largely the same for the last 4 years. The only major change was the barcode however that is hardly comparable to the change which have seen with Apple. I know BBM 6 will bring BBM games to the platform, but I think that should have been a change they made shortly after Apps to take off on the iPhone.

[howarmat]

I do agree because it doesn't mean that if Apple does it, it's better than everyone else. BUT given their track record, each time they implement something into the OS that's already been existent, it turns out to be better and easier to use than what was already out. Not saying this is the same case, but it's a good chance given the history. And the one thing that will make it good is the ability to start and finish chats on different iOS devices. That's already a step above other IM clients. Sure you can login in AIM on your phone and then you tablet but you won't see all the same convo history like we will with Apple's client. But again, not saying it will be better but it's a good chance

gtalk does do that btw

[BlackBerry.est08]

However, RIM had one thing which kept it competitive and that was its messaging platform which is still second to none. Particularly Blackberry Messenger. This was enough to keep RIM competitive, after all who wants a phone which could do a lot of gimmicky things but could not function properly as a phone. But the only thing a good messaging system did was buy RIM time to catch up to Apple on create a mobile computer while Apple tried to catch up to RIM on creating a good messaging phone.

So agree. RIM had a gem in BBM and never knew it. It was a selling point, but RIM never capitalized or even tried to build on it further, RIM just kept it as a simple IM amongst BlackBerry users. Given who's behind the software and hardware, I think many people are under looking how big Apple can really make iMessage in terms of really integrating it with iOS and even extending to the Mac (not sure if this is already possible with iCloud). It should be interesting to see what happens from here.

[The Gift]

i'm curious to see how it compares during actually usage. it could end up being like Facetime vs PlayBook video chat (hint: everyone seems to agree that the video and audio on the playbook is much smoother and consistent than facetime)

Huh?!? where did that study come from?

I for one have no issues using FaceTime with my family and friends who also have iDevices.. jee it even works great over 3G as I'm jailbroken.

The last I saw on Crackberry was a video review of PlayBook video chat in action and the results werent that great according to the reviewer...unless theres been an update to the app?

[scorpiodsu]

gtalk does do that btw

Agreed but I was only referring to a messaging system that's confined to a single platform. Gtalk in my opinion is something totally different along with AIM and YIM and MSN Messenger. Those are cross platform clients.

[1812dave]

The issue at play isn't that iMessage will be better than BBM, or even as good. It is that RIM's deathgrip on being a messaging workhorse is beginning to slip away. As iOS 5 begins to catch up to RIM in terms of messaging capabilities, how is RIM going to distinguish itself going forward? That is where the lack of a clear direction from RIM is concerning.

RIM has ALREADY "distinguished" itself--just not in a positive way. RIM is seen now by many as the moribund, stodgy, resting-on-its-laurels, decaying, has-been company that it is.

[howarmat]

Agreed but I was only referring to a messaging system that's confined to a single platform. Gtalk in my opinion is something totally different along with AIM and YIM and MSN Messenger. Those are cross platform clients.

right i agree it is that category. If gtalk would get file transfer across all platforms i really think it would be great.

[scorpiodsu]

right i agree it is that category. If gtalk would get file transfer across all platforms i really think it would be great.

Yeah I definitely agree. I know it's a huge deal that Apple is releasing their own messaging system but it's not important to me. I'm more concerned with the OS enhancements and new services. I barely talk to people on all the IM clients I have now. And the friends I have now that own iPhones, I really don't talk to them much anyway. So for me, this isn't a big deal. But to the masses it certainly is and for BB users who were holding on for BBM or left iPhone because they missed BBM so much. I haven't seen it mentioned, but BBM is a good resource for enterprise and this will further strengthen Apple's position to penetrate the corporate world with a service like this. All I hope that comes out of this is everyone else steps their game up. I love the competition because each company has to one-up each other as they fight for our loyalty.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

All I hope that comes out of this is everyone else steps their game up. I love the competition because each company has to one-up each other as they fight for our loyalty.

Unfortunately RIM doesn't see it that way...

[DenverRalphy]

Yeah I definitely agree. I know it's a huge deal that Apple is releasing their own messaging system but it's not important to me. I'm more concerned with the OS enhancements and new services. I barely talk to people on all the IM clients I have now. And the friends I have now that own iPhones, I really don't talk to them much anyway. So for me, this isn't a big deal. But to the masses it certainly is and for BB users who were holding on for BBM or left iPhone because they missed BBM so much. I haven't seen it mentioned, but BBM is a good resource for enterprise and this will further strengthen Apple's position to penetrate the corporate world with a service like this. All I hope that comes out of this is everyone else steps their game up. I love the competition because each company has to one-up each other as they fight for our loyalty.

My guess is with the announcement of iMessage, Google ramps up their gTalk client for mobile devices. They already have the service in place with all the features and security measures, but for some odd reason never put much work into the mobile application.

What's disappointing is that mobile devices are focusing on improving features limited to their own products when it's something that should be cross platform, like messaging. Even Google has started to do that a bit with Android. Realistically, BBM was designed for closed corporate/business correspondence so I understand how it began, but it would have been nice for them to design a consumer method that was cross smartphone (or ideally cross platform). Now we have iMessage, which will be Apple only devices. If Google does indeed throw resources into their gTalk app, I hope they do it for all mobile devices, and not just focus on the Android version (which they seem to have been doing with a lot of their apps recently).

[scorpiodsu]

My guess is with the announcement of iMessage, Google ramps up their gTalk client for mobile devices. They already have the service in place with all the features and security measures, but for some odd reason never put much work into the mobile application.

What's disappointing is that mobile devices are focusing on improving features limited to their own products when it's something that should be cross platform, like messaging. Even Google has started to do that a bit with Android. Realistically, BBM was designed for closed corporate/business correspondence so I understand how it began, but it would have been nice for them to design a consumer method that was cross smartphone (or ideally cross platform). Now we have iMessage, which will be Apple only devices. If Google does indeed throw resources into their gTalk app, I hope they do it for all mobile devices, and not just focus on the Android version (which they seem to have been doing with a lot of their apps recently).

I agree. I'm not a big fan of single platform IM clients. But there's obviously a strategy to it. So while it makes sense for us users to want something cross platform, it makes sense for companies like Apple and RIM to keep in single platform because as people their services more it becomes harder and harder to leave. Many people were attached to blackberry because of BBM. Now many people will become attached to iPhone because of iMessage for the same reason. But no one is attached to an Android device because of gtalk. Apple and Google both want use to use all their service so we are in so deep with them that it's hard to use. Apple does this with the app store, iTunes and now with iCloud. Google does it with all their services. Unfortunately, BBM is the only thing RIM has that people can be attached to. Not saying I agree with the strategy but that's how they get us

[1812dave]

I agree. I'm not a big fan of single platform IM clients. But there's obviously a strategy to it. So while it makes sense for us users to want something cross platform, it makes sense for companies like Apple and RIM to keep in single platform because as people their services more it becomes harder and harder to leave. Many people were attached to blackberry because of BBM. Now many people will become attached to iPhone because of iMessage for the same reason. But no one is attached to an Android device because of gtalk. Apple and Google both want use to use all their service so we are in so deep with them that it's hard to use. Apple does this with the app store, iTunes and now with iCloud. Google does it with all their services. Unfortunately, BBM is the only thing RIM has that people can be attached to. Not saying I agree with the strategy but that's how they get us

Other than the fact my wife was wanting us to get BB's, one of the big draws for me was BBM. Without that, I'm not sure the bright screen and good sound quality would have been enough to get me to buy the Storms, given how wonky they were (the original storms). Now, I'm just "hanging out", waiting for a bright screen Android, 4G with good sound quality. So far, the 3 verizon offerings haven't got those qualities. It's just a matter of time...

[Xopher]

I tend to agree that I see Google Talk taking a step up to possibly compete along side of iMessenger.

BBM has grown over the past couple of years. Things like BBM Groups (with chat, lists, and shared calendar) were added a couple of years ago. They make it easy to use BBM for more than just chatting. You could even play basic games (like Word Mole) with your BBM contacts. It will be interesting to see what developers do to integrate into BBM.

[StaticFX]

BBM will NOT be on any other platform. This was announced like a month ago. there is no need.

RIM just needs to make BBM even better which they have by opening it to devs for app integration. Apple is just playing catch up... only difference is that all the fanboys that only use apple products will tell everyone that iMessage is the best ever and Apple invented all the functions in it lol. Not ever knowing that BBM has had all this for a looooong time.