[Rooster99]

Sent my father-in-law an email today telling him he should check out the Torch, as he'd gotten into the RIM world about 2 years ago with half a dozen Storms for his company.

His response? (fyi - Sparky is my highly technical brother-in-law) :

"Glad you are enjoying the Torch. I am afraid that I am pissed with Blackberry. As you know, the Storm 1 has limited memory and needs to now be reset several times a day in order to keep it working. I have also found that synchronization has on occasion wiped out my past calendar events. I need to retain all of my calendar history so that I can trace back to when various activities took place. I complained on several occasions to Bell about the Storm 1 and its acknowledged problems and they insisted I pay for the upgrade. In the meantime, I have been watching Sparky enjoying his iPhone 4 with unbelievable apps (that really work). I have decided, I am going over to the �dark� side and will be shortly replacing my unit with iPhone 4! If I have to pay for an upgrade, I want to upgrade to something that works for me � not the other way around with the Storm 1. I know, the newer Blackberries (particularly the Torch) are vastly improved by the whole past experience has left a bad taste in my mouth and they should have made it good!"

RIM better knock it out of the park - soon. It's not just a matter of stemming the bleeding. It will take a long time to re-acquire interest from those who leave.

- R.

[buwee]

Sent my father-in-law an email today telling him he should check out the Torch, as he'd gotten into the RIM world about 2 years ago with half a dozen Storms for his company.

His response? (fyi - Sparky is my highly technical brother-in-law) :

"Glad you are enjoying the Torch. I am afraid that I am pissed with Blackberry. As you know, the Storm 1 has limited memory and needs to now be reset several times a day in order to keep it working. I have also found that synchronization has on occasion wiped out my past calendar events. I need to retain all of my calendar history so that I can trace back to when various activities took place. I complained on several occasions to Bell about the Storm 1 and its acknowledged problems and they insisted I pay for the upgrade. In the meantime, I have been watching Sparky enjoying his iPhone 4 with unbelievable apps (that really work). I have decided, I am going over to the �dark� side and will be shortly replacing my unit with iPhone 4! If I have to pay for an upgrade, I want to upgrade to something that works for me � not the other way around with the Storm 1. I know, the newer Blackberries (particularly the Torch) are vastly improved by the whole past experience has left a bad taste in my mouth and they should have made it good!"

RIM better knock it out of the park - soon. It's not just a matter of stemming the bleeding. It will take a long time to re-acquire interest from those who leave.

- R.

Yawn...Another doomsday prediction for RIM. Sigh...When is this going to end?

[il67bp]

talk about comparing apples to oranges. the storm is 3 years old compared a to a recently released iphone 4. really? dont most know technology is outdated almost instantly? besides the fact that the storm was arguably the most problematic blackberry to date

[Momo13Drums]

Yeah, this is silly. Someone's "father-in-law" with only half a dozen storms for a small company means RIM is on it's last leg?

If your so-called "highly technical" brother-in-law knew anything for business, he'd know the blackberry platform has the best, and most secure communication for business.

Yes, we know. Blackberry has 'old' technology in it. Yes, they should get with the times. I myself have looked toward an android platform, but definitely not for business - Honestly, I looked because my Tour is old and it was a bad model, and I wouldn't mind having a bunch of apps to entertain me during slow times at work. But for actual functionality and real businesses getting work done and communicating, blackberry can't be beat. Which is why I stay on blackberry. It gets too much work done for me to justify buying an android or iphone just to have fun on.

For non-business users those are great platforms. For business users, there isn't any other really viable option. Granted, RIM does need to step up the hardware and software; but they announced new bb's coming soon so that's covered.

Tell your in-laws to keep the berries for business. Upgrade to a bold, and then carry whatever phone they want for personal and playtoy use.

[Sirhill]

Yet another post that says nothing that we have not heard before.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

So "technical business users" Buys RIM's Entry into the Consumer touch screen market and isn't happy,
"technical business user" doesn't talk with a Bell Canada Small business rep before buying the phones, and converts an entire operation to them without testing>

He's written off a Product line because he made a bad purchase, and didn't want to pay to fix it, that isn't RIM's target market, sorry to see the bad taste in his mouth, hopefully he enjoy's his iPhone, it has become a pretty good business tool, but I still wouldn't rely on it Canada as a mission critical communication device.

[Rootbrian]

I don't care if ** says what about a company, if they're doing fine, they won't "die out" or "go bankrupt". All this nonsense is getting old. If you're not satisfied with a phone, why the **** do you even BUY it in the first place? Just my two cents. RIM isn't dying.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[lnichols]

Well even though the message is a bit overreaching, Hopefully OS6.1 and beyond does get rid of the need for periodic reboots and such. Every few days having to reboot my Tour because the device is getting slow, then waiting 10 minutes is pretty lame. A coworker upgraded his 9650 to OS6 and we timed the reboot while waiting for lunch to be brought out the other day and it was still over 3 and half minutes, and even though the screen finally showed it was still another 30 seconds to a minute before the device became responsive and usable. That said I really can't wait for these upcoming device to make it into the wild so we can see what they can do.

[Rootbrian]

Well even though the message is a bit overreaching, Hopefully OS6.1 and beyond does get rid of the need for periodic reboots and such. Every few days having to reboot my Tour because the device is getting slow, then waiting 10 minutes is pretty lame. A coworker upgraded his 9650 to OS6 and we timed the reboot while waiting for lunch to be brought out the other day and it was still over 3 and half minutes, and even though the screen finally showed it was still another 30 seconds to a minute before the device became responsive and usable. That said I really can't wait for these upcoming device to make it into the wild so we can see what they can do.

Maybe an OS reload via BBSAK or apploader/loader might do the trick. Sometimes things don't always go smoothly. I would give it a shot.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[barrist]

Whoa whoa whoa... "Sparky"?

[BayouBengal21]

One man decided he is leaving RIM due to the Storm giving him issues lol. I love the way the heading makes it sound like this huge company is pulling their business from RIM. What a wasted post.

[Rickroller]

If you're not satisfied with a phone, why the **** do you even BUY it in the first place?
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Lolwut? I don't know about you..but I sure as heck can't tell if i'll be "satisfied" with something until i've at least used it for a good period of time (which in Canada..means more than two weeks and/or 30mins of talk time). And the way RIM was touting the Storm when it first came out..you can understand people's frustrations when it didn't perform as intended.

Whoa whoa whoa... "Sparky"?

Lol..+1

[Pierrohhh]

tech business people dont wait with a 3 year old phone for their contract to be up to buy a new phone sorry. lol

especially when it hurts your productivity

i buy a phone at full retail when im not due for an upgrade (bold 9700 and my torch) and just write them off as an expense lol

people have to stop crying about the death of rim cuz rim is really not going anywhere lollllll. if motorola survived, rim wont have any problems coming back lol

[whoanellie]

What percentage of RIM's business are "tech business people"? What percentage of RIM's business is from large companies that are purchasing phones for there employeses? What percentage of RIM's business is from what some of you would define as their "target market".

My experience with my Storm has certainly made me reluctant to ever buy a BB again.

[i7guy]

What percentage of RIM's business are "tech business people"? What percentage of RIM's business is from large companies that are purchasing phones for there employeses? What percentage of RIM's business is from what some of you would define as their "target market".

My experience with my Storm has certainly made me reluctant to ever buy a BB again.

I know a lot of people satisfied with their storm. Technical people who have more technical knowledge in their shoelace than most of us will ever have.

Maybe the storm have been a better user experience but the first iphone was missing several key features BB had for years and its still playing catchup in certain aspects.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

Lolwut? I don't know about you..but I sure as heck can't tell if i'll be "satisfied" with something until i've at least used it for a good period of time (which in Canada..means more than two weeks and/or 30mins of talk time). And the way RIM was touting the Storm when it first came out..you can understand people's frustrations when it didn't perform as intended.

that changes when you have a corporate carrier rep, they want to keep you happy, I took back my 8530 after about 1 month and over 1000 minutes of talking, saying I didn't want it, cost me $25 to change it to the 9300. My Bell Rep wants to keep the business.

[sleepngbear]

Tell me why I should put any stock in what somebody's father-in-law thinks when I can get all the techie expertise I need from Howard Stern.

Anyway, it's pretty commonly accepted that the Storm 1 was not one of RIM's best efforts. It was its first dabbling in touch screens and their first effort to try to bridge the business user/consumer gap. I won't call it a fail, because a lot of people do like them. But to suggest the fate of the whole company is based on that one poor example of its value proposition is just ludicrous. As a business phone, basically any other number in RIM's arsenal would have been better suited for that. JMOFHO.

Best of luck with his iP4.

[Rickroller]

that changes when you have a corporate carrier rep, they want to keep you happy, I took back my 8530 after about 1 month and over 1000 minutes of talking, saying I didn't want it, cost me $25 to change it to the 9300. My Bell Rep wants to keep the business.

I'm surprised they even charged you $25. Next time just give a little wink and a tickle and i'm sure you could get it for nothing..that always works for me

[Rooster99]

Wow - sorry, should perhaps have re-ordered the words in the thread title; It's not RIM that would be gone, it's that someone within RIM's target market was gone, likely for good, due to RIM's business practices.

So my apologies if people thought I was saying RIM would be doomed due to one person leaving. Not my intent. If someone can advise how to change a thread title I will.

However, I wanted to show that :

1) Business users are moving to iPhone (it ain't a toy or just a consumer device)

2) Technical users are moving to iPhone (it's not just for high schoolers and grandpa)

3) RIM's (and the carriers) business practices are driving people away as much as the products - if you read his comments, he's choked because they didn't "make it right"

And #3 I fully agree with - when he got the Storms they were relatively new arrivals and both the marketing material and the reps were saying great things - plus RIM had had a track record for delivering quality product. But the Storm was so very bad there is NO WAY that RIM or the carriers weren't aware of the problems before they released them. If they weren't then their QA processes are so poor we need to have a different conversation.

Anyway, if that happened with any other product there would have been a huge recall. Yet neither the carriers nor RIM would take responsibility - I eventually got a free Storm 2 replacement for my Storm, but had to write letters to the CEO of Telus and co-CEO's of RIM to get it. That's extremely poor customer service.

- R

[Rooster99]

I know a lot of people satisfied with their storm. Technical people who have more technical knowledge in their shoelace than most of us will ever have.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

My father-in-law is one of the people you describe. He owns a 30 person software company, has a degree in electronics and cut his tech teeth many years ago writing drivers for mainframe disk packs. I have been in the hardware/software industry for over 30 years.

And we both hate our Storms. With my Storm 2 I graduated to a love/hate relationship.

My wife has very light needs for her Storm - uses it for texting, email, and as a phone. She's happy - not in love, but she'll still date it. lol

Not disputing you know people satisfied with their phone. But from what I've seen it's not technical expertise that's the common thread - it's not asking much from the device.

Lower expectations = higher satisfaction.

- R.

[red777]

OH NO!!!! THE END IS NEAR FOR RIM!!?? That's it I am throwing my Torch away and getting Motorola Backflip.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

T It was its first dabbling in touch screens and their first effort to try to bridge the business user/consumer gap. I won't call it a fail, because a lot of people do like them. But to suggest the fate of the whole company is based on that one poor example of its value proposition is just ludicrous.

STORM1 was a huge FAIL for RIM! If they had managed to provide a workable device, RIM would be in the consumer market right now. And that and oversees are the only real markets that are growing today.

But RIM released a device that was not easy for the average consumer to use, it required quite a bit of user maintenance to get the most out of it (battery pulls, leaked OS and hybrids) and to top it off it was obsolete the day it was released. For many it was their first and last BlackBerry.

As a business it isn't over for RIM, but the numbers don't lie. RIM is selling more units than it did in years past, but their competitor are growing at a much faster rate. And while many are excited about the new device coming LATER this year... I'm waiting to see them announce an LTE or some form of 4G device along with seeing if the newer version of OS6 is MUCH better than what we have.

[BoldtotheMax]

Moving on as this is just silly...

Enjoy your new hotness OP, lol!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[sleepngbear]

Wow - sorry, should perhaps have re-ordered the words in the thread title; It's not RIM that would be gone, it's that someone within RIM's target market was gone, likely for good, due to RIM's business practices.

So my apologies if people thought I was saying RIM would be doomed due to one person leaving. Not my intent. If someone can advise how to change a thread title I will.

However, I wanted to show that :

1) Business users are moving to iPhone (it ain't a toy or just a consumer device)

2) Technical users are moving to iPhone (it's not just for high schoolers and grandpa)

3) RIM's (and the carriers) business practices are driving people away as much as the products - if you read his comments, he's choked because they didn't "make it right"

And #3 I fully agree with - when he got the Storms they were relatively new arrivals and both the marketing material and the reps were saying great things - plus RIM had had a track record for delivering quality product. But the Storm was so very bad there is NO WAY that RIM or the carriers weren't aware of the problems before they released them. If they weren't then their QA processes are so poor we need to have a different conversation.

Anyway, if that happened with any other product there would have been a huge recall. Yet neither the carriers nor RIM would take responsibility - I eventually got a free Storm 2 replacement for my Storm, but had to write letters to the CEO of Telus and co-CEO's of RIM to get it. That's extremely poor customer service.

- R

Ah, I get it. The guy is typical RIM target, and he's had enough. I.e., they missed. Well, again, it's unfortunate that his (and your) lasting impression of RIM is from the Storm. I can relate, sort of ... I'm very unwilling to give Windows Phone 7 a fair shake because of a horrendous experience I had with a WinMo phone. I went from my favorite phone at the time - a Palm Treo 650 with Palm's OS - to my most hated phone of all time, a Palm Treo 750 with WinMo 6. (I still say the start of Palm's downfall was its partnering with MS, but that's a discussion for another day.) I think I'd go with a Symbian phone before Windows again. So yeah, those kinds of impressions can be a powerful influence on buyers.

As for RIM's customer service, I'm not sure what he expected the company to do to make it right. I mean, using my case as an example, I found WinMo to be a total piece of garbage, but some people still swear by it (exactly why I cannot begin to fathom, but they do). Of course I cussed MS (again) 6 ways to Sunday for the entirety of that contract period, but really, what could anyone have done to make it right? In the end, it was my own poor choice. Unfortunately waiting for upgrade time was the longest 12 months of my life, but I did learn to rely less on certain people's say-so and much more on my own research before picking another product of any kind that I would be tied to for any length of time.

I don't know what the return policies were like when the Storm came out, but it seems that if it was really that bad, the evil would have shown itself early enough that you could have returned it -- or at least should have been able to -- for another model. Maybe the 30-day return policy is new.

Well, what it comes down to is, you can either jump ship and try another brand/technology, or hang on and give BB another shot when their new stuff starts hitting the shelves later this year. If the rumored specs for these new devices are on target, I think it should demonstrate that they've learned that they can't continue to put out crap like the Storm 1 (no offense to Storm 1 owners who like them!) and stay competitive. We can speculate all we want, but there's really no way to know for sure until they're all out and in the wild whether they're in greater or fewer numbers than the other guys.

[WillieLee]

Crackberry should make a section where people can post their tales of doom and betrayal and how RIM doesn't know what they are doing.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com