[vistate1]

Android overtakes iPhone for share of recent adopters | Electronista

**taken from a generally pro apple website
***there are charts on the website - I may note the interestrim RIM OS share...for a 'mature' company in the phone market - its OS share is on an uptick vs apple's down tick, and androids over all increase...how does google make money on an open source OS again??

Android has managed to overtake the iPhone as the most popular smartphone platform for recent buyers, Nielsen found today. Of Americans who had bought a smartphone within the past six months as of August, 32 percent had bought an Android phone. Apple held virtually steady at 25 percent and was only just slightly eclipsed by the BlackBerry's 26 percent.

Apple's absolute share of the user base still grew slightly to 29 percent at the expense of RIM, whose BlackBerry has dropped to 31 percent, but Android's pace accelerated in August to where 19 percent of the base had a device running Google's OS.

The researchers didn't attempt to explain the spike, though most of the highest-end Android phones were released in the same six months as for new adopters. Verizon launched the HTC Droid Incredible in April as well as Motorola's Droid X and Droid 2. Samsung also launched the Galaxy S on all major US carriers, and Sprint was buoyed by the HTC Evo 4G.

Apple had the advantage of the iPhone 4 but may have again been limited by both having a single device and a lone carrier, AT&T. RIM was also hurt as it didn't significantly update its line until the BlackBerry Torch arrived in mid-August. The numbers for all three major phone platforms may settle by the fall, as relatively few high-end phones are known to be shipping in the second half of the year.



Read more: Android overtakes iPhone for share of recent adopters | Electronista

[WillieLee]

When any Android manufacturer makes a profit close to Apple, let alone RIM it might matter.

[lnichols]

One carrier is limiting Apple badly in the US, and carrier exclusive deals are for RIM too, to some extent IMHO. I would expect Apple to open this up soon to get more marketshare against Android. Android phones are everywhere so its easy to see why Android is gaining share so quickly. RIM could move more units too if it would have released the Torch and Storm on all carriers like it does with the Curve lines that are always big sellers. The original Curve 83XX line was the most popular smartphone sold for so long because it was on all major carriers in the US.

[alby4ever]

When any Android manufacturer makes a profit close to Apple, let alone RIM it might matter.

NewsFactor Network | Android Powers HTC's Sales To Record Q2 Profit

Moron.

[Fubaz]

One carrier is limiting Apple badly in the US, and carrier exclusive deals are for RIM too, to some extent IMHO. I would expect Apple to open this up soon to get more marketshare against Android. Android phones are everywhere so its easy to see why Android is gaining share so quickly. RIM could move more units too if it would have released the Torch and Storm on all carriers like it does with the Curve lines that are always big sellers. The original Curve 83XX line was the most popular smartphone sold for so long because it was on all major carriers in the US.

Its nice to see no exclusivity in Canada, there are 4+ carriers offering it.

[BBThemes]

NewsFactor Network | Android Powers HTC's Sales To Record Q2 Profit

Moron.

HTC quarter profit - net $268 million (from the link you posted, but obv offical figures)
RIM quarter profit - net $796.7 million - http://crackberry.com/research-motio...ults-announced

i know which one id say is better

[alby4ever]

HTC quarter profit - net $268 million (from the link you posted, but obv offical figures)
RIM quarter profit - net $796.7 million - http://crackberry.com/research-motio...ults-announced

i know which one id say is better

1/3 of the profit of RIM even though HTC is one of many Android manufacturers.

I like how you guys are ignoring that RIM lost 6% market share over the past six months. If you don't understand how HUGE OF A LOSS that is, then let's hope you never run a business. Jaded RIM fanboys always come up with new last defenses when bad news comes out. First it was saying that RIM still had 40% market share. Now that that's slipped to 31% (and will slip even more), they're hanging on to the profits argument (which is relatively crappy when considering the size of RIM to individual Android manufacturers).

Try harder.

T-Mobile no longer accepting G2 pre-orders due to 'overwhelming demand' -- Engadget

Yeah when's the last time you even heard RIM coming close to this?

[pseudo7]

Saying "RIM takes over Apple" in an article that says "Apple's absolute share of the user base still grew slightly to 29 percent at the expense of RIM" seems like a very optimistic way of looking at it.

[syb0rg]

The original Curve 83XX line was the most popular smartphone sold for so long because it was on all major carriers in the US.

The reason it was most popular was due to several reasons.
1) it was able to be bought and used on any of the four major networks, plus the smaller local channels & was fairly cheap.
2) enterprises are already spending $$ for BES so they want to save it else where.
3) it was easy to control and use for large companies via BES.

Android is available on on the major networks, it is available in every corner of the county /USA/.
Granted AT&T is the soul provider for the iOS devices, but when they become available on Verzion, Sprint, or T-Mo.... or who ever else.... the tides will turn a little, but i still don't see it hurting Android.

[stuaw11]

1/3 of the profit of RIM even though HTC is one of many Android manufacturers.

I like how you guys are ignoring that RIM lost 6% market share over the past six months. If you don't understand how HUGE OF A LOSS that is, then let's hope you never run a business. Jaded RIM fanboys always come up with new last defenses when bad news comes out. First it was saying that RIM still had 40% market share. Now that that's slipped to 31% (and will slip even more), they're hanging on to the profits argument (which is relatively crappy when considering the size of RIM to individual Android manufacturers).

Try harder.

T-Mobile no longer accepting G2 pre-orders due to 'overwhelming demand' -- Engadget

Yeah when's the last time you even heard RIM coming close to this?

Agreed

1) RIM didn't "overtake" Apple as the thread title suggests. they were never behind and never should be considering theyve been making phone 3-4 times long than the other 2!

2) Yes Apple lost a whopping 1% and RIM gained a whopping 1% in 1 month, yet fanboys negate the HUGE 10% drop RIM took while Apple gained 5%. Lets do some gradeschool math here; who is better? -10+1 or 5+(-1)?

3) Now lets do some highschool math. Do a "best fit" line. All have fluctuated but Apple has maily stayed right around 25% overall over the 8 month graph. RIM was OK for a bit there averaging 34% and then PLUMMETED 10% to 25.5%!!

Lets now look at the 2nd graph of overall marketshare.

RIM has SLID 5-6% since the beginning of the year. Apple has remained near steady losing 1% from the beginning of the year.


The ONLY platform able to really boast highly right now is Android who only gained marketshare and showed positive growth constantly.


RIM has nothing to boast from these numbers.

[_StephenBB81]

1/3 of the profit of RIM even though HTC is one of many Android manufacturers.

I like how you guys are ignoring that RIM lost 6% market share over the past six months. If you don't understand how HUGE OF A LOSS that is, then let's hope you never run a business. Jaded RIM fanboys always come up with new last defenses when bad news comes out. First it was saying that RIM still had 40% market share. Now that that's slipped to 31% (and will slip even more), they're hanging on to the profits argument (which is relatively crappy when considering the size of RIM to individual Android manufacturers).

Try harder.

T-Mobile no longer accepting G2 pre-orders due to 'overwhelming demand' -- Engadget

Yeah when's the last time you even heard RIM coming close to this?

OK Though I agree with you pointing out HTC who is doing amazing as a company and really shows up Apple as a global company and apple out does RIM in terms of Market Cap.

I really disagree the 6% Market share loss is a major loss, RIM had nothing BUT market share to loose, with new competition entering the fold in a very immature market losing 6% is not significant if your growth is increasing, as well as your operating margins, Growth and Operating margins matter far more than market share, I don't know what business you run that makes money of market share, but 100% of a losing market isn't nearly as good as 10% of a growing market.

though we may very well come from different schools of business, as I believe in profit margin : revenue need a balance and one must find when to sacrifice profit for revenue to maintain an operating margin that is sustainable.

[CanuckBB]

Well said. Also, market share as an indicator of a company's health is only truly relevant in a static market. In the booming smart phone market, one can increase volumes over previous year but lose overall market share if the market growth outstrips company growth. And RIM's growth and net profits are still doing very well.

[stuaw11]

Well said. Also, market share as an indicator of a company's health is only truly relevant in a static market. In the booming smart phone market, one can increase volumes over previous year but lose overall market share if the market growth outstrips company growth. And RIM's growth and net profits are still doing very well.

But you negate the fact that if they were expanding as fast of the market theyd at least not be losing marketshare- they would have 0 growth and 0 loss. Other platforms seem to be able to increase their marketshare along with market growth, meaning they are shipping more units and able to keep up with market growth.

Marketshare lost means those sales are going to other platforms, period. It cant be flipped into any type of positive whether they shipped more units than last year or not. For example, lets say they shipped 10 million last year, and 12 million this year. Great, shipped more units. But if the growth of the market was 12 million new smartphone users, then a ton of sales are going to competitors- lets say 4 million to Apple and 6 million to Android, so they are growing marketshare. Its very possible to ship slightly more units than a year ago and lose marketshare if youre not keep up with market growth.

It can also easily mean that Android and Apple are attracting more new users and RIM is merely selling units to users they already have. Remember marketshare growth is really how many new users youre bringing on, on top of what you already had. Either way losing marketshare is surely not a good thing.

[csiguy1]

With the new Droid Pro with the BB style keyboard and 3.1 inch screen, they will take more of the market. Come on RIM get with the program.

[WillieLee]

1/3 of the profit of RIM even though HTC is one of many Android manufacturers.

It sells half the phones that RIM does per quarter and makes a third of the profit, wait...half the phones...a third of the profit. Something doesn't seem to be adding up there.

I like how you guys are ignoring that RIM lost 6% market share over the past six months. If you don't understand how HUGE OF A LOSS that is, then let's hope you never run a business. Jaded RIM fanboys always come up with new last defenses when bad news comes out. First it was saying that RIM still had 40% market share. Now that that's slipped to 31% (and will slip even more), they're hanging on to the profits argument (which is relatively crappy when considering the size of RIM to individual Android manufacturers).

Try harder.

Who cares about market share? It's a meaningless number put forth by research firms that have a poor track record of being impartial or even accurate.

And please explain how RIM's profits are relatively crappy in terms of size? HTC is the only Android manufacturer of note that is smaller than RIM.

T-Mobile no longer accepting G2 pre-orders due to 'overwhelming demand' -- Engadget

Yeah when's the last time you even heard RIM coming close to this?

Yeah, RIM doesn't stop accepting orders because they have an efficient manufacturing process that ensures they don't run short despite them selling over twelve million devices in a quarter. Not being able to meet demand isn't a good thing, especially when your order numbers are very low. Did you notice that they never mentioned an actual number in that article? Numbers are important, but considering you like to call people morons before you look them up I guess it shouldn't be expected for you to read beyond a headline.

Let's hope you never run a business.

[_StephenBB81]

But you negate the fact that if they were expanding as fast of the market theyd at least not be losing marketshare- they would have 0 growth and 0 loss. Other platforms seem to be able to increase their marketshare along with market growth, meaning they are shipping more units and able to keep up with market growth.

Marketshare lost means those sales are going to other platforms, period. It cant be flipped into any type of positive whether they shipped more units than last year or not. For example, lets say they shipped 10 million last year, and 12 million this year. Great, shipped more units. But if the growth of the market was 12 million new smartphone users, then a ton of sales are going to competitors- lets say 4 million to Apple and 6 million to Android, so they are growing marketshare. Its very possible to ship slightly more units than a year ago and lose marketshare if youre not keep up with market growth.

It can also easily mean that Android and Apple are attracting more new users and RIM is merely selling units to users they already have. Remember marketshare growth is really how many new users youre bringing on, on top of what you already had. Either way losing marketshare is surely not a good thing.

Do you work in Business?
The Smartphone market exploded with growth, year over year, not being able to keep up with growth can be expected, as well as not being able to maintain a market share when a new competitor enters the market who offers a quality product

RIM as a company we'll say Budgets a 20% growth year over year, and the Market grows 40%, they have achieved their business plan, and kept margins consistent, a company that attempts to grow faster than planned risks running margins too low to maintain profitable, and because the demand has increased, but competitor products have also entered the market the fact that a supply/demand curve can not be applied because you can not increase your pricing to account for the increased demand of your more limited supply, so you must lose sales to another vendor because they are able to supply at the current market pricing, as long as you maintain that growth that you budgeted for, as a company you can maintain health and profitability.

RIM's Challenge is they are too slow to react, They didn't/ couldn't reevaluate their 2010 business plan after April and focus on attacking a market they did not see growing as fast as it did, which was the Android Market, when looking at volumes sold EVERYONE increased volumes, but really only Android grew Market share, and in an impossible to predict way, When global Smartphone usage is in the 80%+ range, that is when RIM, Apple, Android, and Microsoft will need to be fighting for Market share, or at least perceived market share, until then they need to be planing a year over year sustainable growth model, Where Android and Microsoft have a little advantage is multiple manufacturers will be creating budgets for these smartphones, assume 5 manufacturers budget 10million units, while RIM budgets 40 Million units, with a safe variance of 10% Android Microsoft manufacturers could pump out a total of 55million units and RIM 44million units, or a full Million in variance to account for a bubble growth in smart phone sales.

This stuff is Supply and demand economics with multiple factors with in the curve, you'll see Market share is not a something a business even focuses on at stock meetings unless as a previous poster said the market is mostly static.

[Totalimmortal363]

Now, compare market share between ONE android model on ONE network to the iPhone on AT&T. Then this will have merit.

[darkmanx2g]

RIM should be worried now that android and their manufacturers are after their business clients. They got to get QNX in their phones ASAP because we are going to see more of these form factors. With androids massive momentum these form factors will be very successful and will cause many more blackberry users to defect to other platforms. Samsung also has one coming out with the same specs as the galaxy line with a portrait style keyboard. 2011 is going to be really interesting.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[alby4ever]

Yeah, RIM doesn't stop accepting orders because they have an efficient manufacturing process that ensures they don't run short despite them selling over twelve million devices in a quarter. Not being able to meet demand isn't a good thing, especially when your order numbers are very low. Did you notice that they never mentioned an actual number in that article? Numbers are important, but considering you like to call people morons before you look them up I guess it shouldn't be expected for you to read beyond a headline.

Let's hope you never run a business.

The first half of your response doesn't exactly warrant a response considering you made up a bunch of excuses and facts. Seriously give me something legitimate. Now you guys are dismissing market share and the researchers as quacks? A few months ago on this forum, you guys were hanging on to it like it was your last savior as to why RIM was perfectly fine. Pathetic.

As for RIM's efficient manufacturing process, it doesn't matter if they only sold a fraction of what they're making. The Torch was a dud, which sold much less than any other high-end Android phone. Oh, and reusing parts from older phones and not introducing anything that's groundbreaking doesn't exactly make it hard to pump out volumes of units.

Oh and here's some thought for you to try and put 2 and 2 together:
Apple = 1 phone on 1 carrier = still maintains market share
RIM = several phones on every carrier = HUGE losses in market share
Android = several phones on every carrier = HUGE gains in market share

I'm very curious to see if you can figure out the problem with this if you have any business savvy.

[WillieLee]

The first half of your response doesn't exactly warrant a response considering you made up a bunch of excuses and facts. Seriously give me something legitimate. Now you guys are dismissing market share and the researchers as quacks? A few months ago on this forum, you guys were hanging on to it like it was your last savior as to why RIM was perfectly fine. Pathetic.

Has nothing to do with me or my responses.

As for RIM's efficient manufacturing process, it doesn't matter if they only sold a fraction of what they're making. The Torch was a dud, which sold much less than any other high-end Android phone. Oh, and reusing parts from older phones and not introducing anything that's groundbreaking doesn't exactly make it hard to pump out volumes of units.

Sold a fraction of what they're making? Their earnings report clearly defines what they sold in terms of what they shipped. It also gives inventory levels at carriers. Why do you keep avoiding anything to do with actual numbers?

And for someone who keeps bringing up business savvy, where's the business sense in picking components that are in short supply? People with business savvy know that continually facing shortages means you make less money.

Oh and here's some thought for you to try and put 2 and 2 together:
Apple = 1 phone on 1 carrier = still maintains market share
RIM = several phones on every carrier = HUGE losses in market share
Android = several phones on every carrier = HUGE gains in market share

I'm very curious to see if you can figure out the problem with this if you have any business savvy.

RIM's HUGE market share losses as reported by research firms has resulted in them posting increases in revenue, device sales, margins and profit. I'll take gains in financials over market share reports any day.

And Android isn't a manufacturer, it's made up of the same companies that once made WinMo and Symbian phones. It's almost as if the market share of those phones decreased and Android increased. Can you use your business savvy to figure that one out?

Oh but good news, HTC increased their numbers again. Too bad they don't provide any device numbers,margin figures or other numbers that indicate the health of a company. But hey, they got market share!

[stuaw11]

Its hilarious how the fanboys can in one breath when theyre gaining marketshare boast how theyre beating Apple, but when losing marketshare its instantly not even an important factor.

Yes profit gains are good, but to who I ask? The company! What does that have to do with the end user (we here)?

Marketshare on the other hand can influence the end users when devs determine which platforms to build for. If a platform is popular, theyw ill build for it, as we saw with the huge amount of iphone development. Yes, development tools matter, but if they have fewer and fewer end users to sell the app to and make money on then why invest the time and money to build the app?

But it surely has NOTHING to do with Apple turning a few billion dollar profit what so ever as that has zero bearing on the end user or developer for the platform. You gain nothing as an end user if they made $50 million or lost $50 million, unless you have some vested interest in the company be it an employee or stockholder.

Simply a red herring being used here.

[vistate1]

Its hilarious how the fanboys can in one breath when theyre gaining marketshare boast how theyre beating Apple, but when losing marketshare its instantly not even an important factor.

Yes profit gains are good, but to who I ask? The company! What does that have to do with the end user (we here)?

Marketshare on the other hand can influence the end users when devs determine which platforms to build for. If a platform is popular, theyw ill build for it, as we saw with the huge amount of iphone development. Yes, development tools matter, but if they have fewer and fewer end users to sell the app to and make money on then why invest the time and money to build the app?

But it had NOTHING to do with Apple turning a few billion dollar profit what so ever as that has zero bearing on the end user or developer. Simply a red herring being used here.

That said it was very easy to either love or hate the New England Patriots during the 2008 season when they were 17-0. and if you were a fanboy of the patriots brady was the king, and if you were a fan boy of the giants -manning was the king.

remember - RIM users are Crackheads, iPhone users are fan bois....

[stuaw11]

That said it was very easy to either love or hate the New England Patriots during the 2008 season when they were 17-0. and if you were a fanboy of the patriots brady was the king, and if you were a fan boy of the giants -manning was the king.

remember - RIM users are Crackheads, iPhone users are fan bois....

Of course. But you can also choose not to be a fanboy at all and see the reality of things. Ive used WM, BB, and iphone in the past 3 years and can admit the faults of each and not make excuses when the evidence points otherwise. I have no loyalty to any of the above and have switched around between them constantly (not so much WM anymore now that its dead).

Being a fanboy of a cell phone platform is about as stupid as it gets.

[vistate1]

thats like asking for peace in the middle east lmao. but i do agree. i personally love seeing people complain...and not doing anything about it.

[stuaw11]

I fully agree it wont ever happen because people are defensive of what they own at the time (even though lots would switch in a heartbeat if something came along that worked better for them).

But defending the company's numbers who makes the phones is even more senseless as their ONLY goal is to take your money. And theyve somehow earned such dying devotion by taking your money? Now that makes absolutely ZERO sense.

If the numbers are good then theyre good, if theyre bad theyre bad, its not the end of the universe if someone admits they arent all that great. Rim wont come and spank you, I promise that much