[Card Storm]

What truly sets the competition for a touch screen phone?

Some may argue that its the touch screen itself and the haptic feedback that truly sets the standard for a touch device, while others claim that it is a fluid user interface that takes advantage of the interaction of a user and device through a wide space screen. In reality, there are non touchscreen devices that are being produced that can acheive the same fluidity as the android and OSx operating systems.

When people search for a touchscreen device, especially new consumers who currently own a non-touch device, they place screen comfort as a top priority. The average consumer doesn't really think about "who has the best OS". Its what looks cool, and feels cool, and does what it needs to do properly while function at or above quality standards for smart phone devices. Too many people don't get the iphone or the storm because the mental and physical comfort isn't there. While the storm was a great first shot at a new for satisfying haptic feedback, it limited complete comfort due to the amount of physical energy the average consumer uses while typing. The average consumer is easily flustered if things don't come to them as soon as possible with as least energy and work as possible. And now RIM Is about to release its second generation storm, which uses an electrical haptic feedback system cutting down on physical labor attributed with typing, while still getting that same familiar click from a button. Incredible. The thing is, there are many people who have been waiting for verizons alternative to the iphone. RIM has one upped iphone on one of the most important factors in a touchscreen smart device. Haptic feedback. This will draw thousands tonthis new alternative. Iphone is on its third Gen touch device. Same screen. What will apples response to this be? What are they going to do to provide haptic feedback to protect its percentage? We all know what happens when companies get comfortable. Luckily rim is making an effort to change their OS. Cmon apple let's shake things up? Or even android shyt. Omnias out of competition no offense. Talk about a second gen device that hasn't changed much.

[RickyRoss10]

Ok, so I Googled "haptic" and I don't understand what it means...little help?

[DreamSTi]

Nothing, they have the 3GS.

[Card Storm]

Nothing, they have the 3GS.

If thats what apple fans settle for then whatever. I guess Blackberry users have higher standards and expectations.

Seriously you say that like 3GS was such a revolutionary upgrade from 3g.

a digital compass, 1mpx more on ur camera, and maybe a slightly better battery and/or processor.

RIM said "we have security" lol and look how long that chillax time lasted.

Most people did not leave 3G for 3GS, but tons of people will leave s1 for s2.

[syscrash]

I predict apple does little or nothing (and I love my berry, don't get me wrong). You state that the average consumer doesn't think about who has the better OS...you're right from a certain point of view. Consumers do, indeed, pay attention to the OS but they may not refer to it as that. The "I just don't like the way the storm/iPhone operates" type of comments are OS related. The OS controls a large part of the user experience on these phones and is extremely important. I hated the berry OS on the storm, so I returned it and got a bold. Love the OS on the bold. I use my berry 90% for work, but I really was hoping that other 10% could have fulfilled by the storm, but it wasn't for me. It's not on the Bold either, but at least it isn't slow to use.

I've said this before, but what I really don't get is it seems so obvious to me. Rim could provide some simple things that would help, first a better, faster OS. Second a working browser. Apple could provide full device encryption. Surely both companies know that's what they tend to be missing. Then they could compete in other markers. That's my $.02 anyway, so of course others may feel differently.

[amojeba]

I've said this before, but what I really don't get is it seems so obvious to me. Rim could provide some simple things that would help, first a better, faster OS. Second a working browser. Apple could provide full device encryption. Surely both companies know that's what they tend to be missing. Then they could compete in other markers. That's my $.02 anyway, so of course others may feel differently.

^^ Agreed. I currently have a BB Storm, and while I do absolutely love the phone, it can be frustrating at times. Like in an emergency, and it lags.
Don't get me wrong, I love my phone. I enjoy BIS email and all things RIM-related, but comparing to the Iphone's OS, it leaves a lot to be desired.

Then again, as you pointed out, iPhone is still missing some things that could improve it.

I'd be interested to see how the S2 is. And possibly the iPhone, if that comes out anytime soon. Barring any unforseen circumstances (like a broken phone mishap), I don't plan to purchase another phone until S2 and (hopefully) iPhone are both released on Verizon.
I'd like to see which is the best option for me.

[Card Storm]

I predict apple does little or nothing (and I love my berry, don't get me wrong). You state that the average consumer doesn't think about who has the better OS...you're right from a certain point of view. Consumers do, indeed, pay attention to the OS but they may not refer to it as that. The "I just don't like the way the storm/iPhone operates" type of comments are OS related. The OS controls a large part of the user experience on these phones and is extremely important. I hated the berry OS on the storm, so I returned it and got a bold. Love the OS on the bold. I use my berry 90% for work, but I really was hoping that other 10% could have fulfilled by the storm, but it wasn't for me. It's not on the Bold either, but at least it isn't slow to use.

I've said this before, but what I really don't get is it seems so obvious to me. Rim could provide some simple things that would help, first a better, faster OS. Second a working browser. Apple could provide full device encryption. Surely both companies know that's what they tend to be missing. Then they could compete in other markers. That's my $.02 anyway, so of course others may feel differently.

True, but eventually RIMS OS is going to catch up to apples. They are already achieving a faster OS and will have a better browser by next summer. Apple simply wont be able to continue and use the same old OS to stay ahead of the game, there has to be further innovation.

[Rynac]

I still have to disagree about the comments that RIMs OS leaves things to be desired. The truth is that the strom handles multi media just as well and the video looks better (well the blacks do) on the storm than the iPhone. They both have forms of push email though with the BB its all push through rim which has its pluses and minuses and the storm is push on certain services. Apple has enabled on device encryption through exhange and active sync but I dont know how well it works since I dont own one (lol though my family, at least half of my friends have them).

I will agree however that the RIM OS in general could be WAY more fluid compared to some UI's like OSX, Android, Symbian, Touch Flow 3D to name a few. The down side to the RIM OS right now is that its just not as easy to use as other but it is just as capable once you deal with the learning curve and for some of us its easier to get around their than the iPhone. I know as a IT guy one of the things that drives me batty about them is that some times it can be a pain to get to some of the deeper options where as the RIM OS is so customisable its frustrating at times lol.

Its all in what your looking for and know how to use what you own. I dont think that the iPhone is a toy persay, it has a lot of flexibility and some companies have done some amazing things with them because of how well you can code a good app (not saying that BB aps are not good, some are very good). My only real grip with the BB's in general is the web browsing but I am using the new opera 5 beta and have not looked back, its a great browser and fixes really the only "complaint" I have had.

All that being said I do think apple will have to advance their hardware a huge step next time around, up to snapdragon level and increase their screen hardware tech as well but for now and a few years I am sure they will sell and opperate just fine.

[whodatt]

I don't think there will be a response or there needs to be one. While you touched on an important point. I think that the Iphone is the perfect phone for the masses. Its flashy, extremely easy to use, its well made (will not fall appart) and comes with a huge assortment of add-ins (from the app store), that is all the great majority of people look for in a phone, just look at another best seller the Razor. When it first came out it was unique, cool, simple to use and well made.

The storm looks to be an excellent phone, but its one fault (if you want to call it that) is the fact that the bb os is not a straight forward simple to use os, its not an OS that the "dumb masses" will feel comfortable using straight out of the box, this I think will limit the amount of people that will purchase it.

[Card Storm]

I don't think there will be a response or there needs to be one. While you touched on an important point. I think that the Iphone is the perfect phone for the masses. Its flashy, extremely easy to use, its well made (will not fall appart) and comes with a huge assortment of add-ins (from the app store), that is all the great majority of people look for in a phone, just look at another best seller the Razor. When it first came out it was unique, cool, simple to use and well made.

The storm looks to be an excellent phone, but its one fault (if you want to call it that) is the fact that the bb os is not a straight forward simple to use os, its not an OS that the "dumb masses" will feel comfortable using straight out of the box, this I think will limit the amount of people that will purchase it.

What about 5.0? Forget about 4.7. We all know what thats like. Now lets talk about the future, if you arent familiar with 5.0.0.230, there are UI changes that make this phone alot more User Friendly than 4.7. Im telling you, RIM is figuring it out, and eventually Apple wont be able to have that argument. Other companies ARE going to match or surpass apples iPhone fluidity in due time!

Forget abotu RIM. What about Android? Their OS is not that far behind iPhone as far as fluidity.

[sportboy]

Well stated and I agree completely.

I don't think there will be a response or there needs to be one. While you touched on an important point. I think that the Iphone is the perfect phone for the masses. Its flashy, extremely easy to use, its well made (will not fall appart) and comes with a huge assortment of add-ins (from the app store), that is all the great majority of people look for in a phone, just look at another best seller the Razor. When it first came out it was unique, cool, simple to use and well made.

The storm looks to be an excellent phone, but its one fault (if you want to call it that) is the fact that the bb os is not a straight forward simple to use os, its not an OS that the "dumb masses" will feel comfortable using straight out of the box, this I think will limit the amount of people that will purchase it.

[amojeba]

I still have to disagree about the comments that RIMs OS leaves things to be desired. The truth is that the strom handles multi media just as well and the video looks better (well the blacks do) on the storm than the iPhone.

To address "RIM's OS leaves more to be desired" point...I wasn't refering to media necessarily. More like the phone's lag time, when you click on something. Or when you hit the "phone" button , it takes a while for it to load. Or the accelerometer speed - it's better, but not great yet.

They both have forms of push email though with the BB its all push through rim which has its pluses and minuses and the storm is push on certain services.

I wasn't aware the Storm's email service differed from that of other Blackberry devices. Perhaps you were referring to iPhone in your comparision instead? Please clarify.

[Pat6290]

Guys this age old question means nothing.

There is no iphone killer. The iPhone is unique, its crazy fast and has no flaws. It has an app for everything.

BUT...at the same time, there is no blackberry killer. Noone can match the blackberry. They may be competing in the sense that they are both phones and most people will only have one or the other. But they are the same as a samsung flip vs a motorola flip

the iPhone is the iPhone. The blackberry is the blackberry. Plain and simple.

[silent6610]

With the way things are progressing, the only reason I would think about the iPhone is the vast amount of apps available. While BB has the app world now, it still doesn't compete that close to apps. but in everything else, the S2 looks like it will likely match, and possibly exceed the iPhone if no OS update, or any imminent upgrade is made for it.

[Sooks]

What about 5.0? Forget about 4.7. We all know what thats like. Now lets talk about the future, if you arent familiar with 5.0.0.230, there are UI changes that make this phone alot more User Friendly than 4.7. Im telling you, RIM is figuring it out, and eventually Apple wont be able to have that argument. Other companies ARE going to match or surpass apples iPhone fluidity in due time!

Forget abotu RIM. What about Android? Their OS is not that far behind iPhone as far as fluidity.

Disagree. Companies wont surpass it , nor are they now. And for one reason and one reason alone. Apple has 1 phone to focus on . They will make that 1 phone to perfection . Where as BB has many many phones to work on and make better.

Problem with android is that its too open , too many companys and phones doing to many different things to it.

[whodatt]

What about 5.0? Forget about 4.7. We all know what thats like. Now lets talk about the future, if you arent familiar with 5.0.0.230, there are UI changes that make this phone alot more User Friendly than 4.7. Im telling you, RIM is figuring it out, and eventually Apple wont be able to have that argument. Other companies ARE going to match or surpass apples iPhone fluidity in due time!

I have no experience with 5.0 so If I'm mistaken I stand corrected, but I would imagine the OS all though "new" in some respects, its still based on the same old Java code. Thus requiring the user to press the BB key to have access to further menus that allow you to interact further with the phone. Drilling down to those levels is where I see the BB loosing some of its clientele.
Simply put the Iphone became popular because even people that had never held a cellphone before could be provided and Iphone and they would be able to use it well (not just to place a call or answer a call, but utilize its other functions) in a very short ammount of time. The BB has a higher learning curve and the "masses" are not big on learning curves

Forget abotu RIM. What about Android? Their OS is not that far behind iPhone as far as fluidity.

I don't have any experience with Android or Web OS, but from what little I have seen, they offer a user experience that could rival that of the Iphone. If the phones that support it have the other pieces of the puzzle (reliable, attractive, plenty of add-ins, etc).

[JRSCCivic98]

If thats what apple fans settle for then whatever. I guess Blackberry users have higher standards and expectations.

Seriously you say that like 3GS was such a revolutionary upgrade from 3g.

a digital compass, 1mpx more on ur camera, and maybe a slightly better battery and/or processor.

RIM said "we have security" lol and look how long that chillax time lasted.

Most people did not leave 3G for 3GS, but tons of people will leave s1 for s2.

The 3GS had a lot more done then just a small boost in performance. For one, it now supports onboard encryption whereas the previous did not. That is a big step in terms of enterprise "wants".

So, Apple doesn't really have to do much to come on top of the S2. Like it or not, the S2 is still an updated S1. OS5 isn't close to offering the same abilities that the iPhone OS does in performance. Again, the phones are in two separate camps.

In order for RIM to ever compete with the iPhone in terms of visual and functional appeal, they need to remove the download/email attachment limits, remove the email trunctations that happen on long emails, completely redo the HTML email rendering engine and design, and come out with a new browser. Each of these items WILL NOT be ready when the S2 will release. These are RIM's biggest hurdles they need to overcome and we haven't even touched on the idea of "games and multimedia entertain factor"... that won't come until RIM can get over the Java OS limitation of video hardware acceleration. So yeah, they have a long road ahead of them... you can only go so far with "input interface improvements" and ranting about "we're #1 in push email". That song is getting old quick.

[Card Storm]

While all the noise about iPhones OS is true. That still does not stop RIM from stealing iPhone market share for those who want a function touchscreen blackberry with REAL haptic feedback.


Regardless.

There are alot of consumers who could give a crap less about enterprise.

[Champer]

apple and RIM aren't even comparable.

[Jahmakan]

No disrespect to RIM/Blackberry, but this same question was asked about the original Storm. Nothing more needs to be said. And the "minor" upgrades from the 3G to the 3GS didn't grab as much as Apple would like, true. But realistically, that's only because the 3G itself is such a good device (arguably) that upgrading may not bring much gain. Someone said that many will upgrade to S2 from S1 but is that anything to brag about, we all know the reason. And speaking of upgrades. What major upgrade is the S1 to S2 vs the 3G to the 3GS?

[zeromaru]

If thats what apple fans settle for then whatever. I guess Blackberry users have higher standards and expectations.

Seriously you say that like 3GS was such a revolutionary upgrade from 3g.

a digital compass, 1mpx more on ur camera, and maybe a slightly better battery and/or processor.

RIM said "we have security" lol and look how long that chillax time lasted.

Most people did not leave 3G for 3GS, but tons of people will leave s1 for s2.

1) much better procesor

2) it is my understanding, that s1 wasn't that "ok", so, users leaving it, for what it should have been, seems reasonable (that said, i dont own an s1, but a 1st gen iphone, just cause the 3g used in my country is not suported by the storm)

i was about to get a bold today, but it was out of stock

[Card Storm]

The screen tech is what's major difference. I think people are missing the point. I'm not saying the iphone and blackberry are or aren't comparable. The fact remains that they ARE competition. In that sense when one company comes. Out with a new advancement in their product, the competitor must respond to protect market share. Are you saying haptic feedback which the iphone lacks if not a serious competitive element in a touch device? Think again. In a little ill pull up an article talking about why haptic feedback is so important in the touch screen device.

[Dr.Sadistic]

To begin, much respect is given to the members of this forum, and this thread particularly, but I have to add my .02 cents also.

IPhone and BlackBerry are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PHONES!

The iPhone is a great device to those who use it. The BlackBerry is a great device to those who need it. Learning curve aside, each has something that make it unique. Hence why both companies are doing well. The Storm 2 will be a great device, as was the 3GS. Both were upgrades on existing devices.

I will say this, however. After watching and reading reviews on the S2, it does seem as though RIM has come along way in creating a user friendly/business friendly device. It'll be exciting times in these forums as soon as it hits the market.

[jbinbi]

JRS hit the nail on the head.

Apps, itunes music, and browser. Apple has sold what, like 20M iphones. while we are debating haptic touchscreen, 99.999% of iphone users would think haptic is a martian word.

I would love to get rid of my itouch and have one device have talking gps/connect to itunes seamlessly and play music/great phone/great browser/great email/great messaging.

RIM needs to take some big steps mentioned above if they want the numbers that the iphone is getting. Else, next June, the iphone will have lots that the BB does. Jobs isn't resting on his a**!

[Card Storm]

Btw why are we talking about s1? Odin ppl. Bck on topic. Odin and iphone.