[anon(9353145)]

Regarding future success, that wasn't my statement. But expecting a revolution at BlackBerry? Well, let's look at the math. Experience and knowledge aside, of the last 10 companies I've followed with some kind of Secure android concept, 9 have failed and 1 is holding on but not yet profitable. So I can estimate (very roughly in my opinion) there is a ~90 percent chance they will fail on Android. I wouldn't bank on a Steve Jobs revelation.

Posted to CB via my Passport | Lloyd Summers | FileArchiveHaven

I think you make some great points, enjoy your point of view. I don't know how much success they'll have pushing the Privacy / Security angle either. Like you noted many others have tried in the past and failed.

But for me and most others who are excited about the Slider is the touch capacitive pkb and actions / shortcuts. I think that's their unique selling feature, and a pretty hefty differentiator, imho. And if they price is appropriately, it could do very well for BlackBerry and I could see them continuing on with hardware. The Slider 2 could have (a) A new name, lol (b) wireless charging (c) fingerprint scanner.

Others on this forum have said repeatedly that pkbs are 'dead', yet consistently on Android forums I see a lot of comments with people expressing an interest in the physical keyboard (and making it touch capacitive updates it). It wasn't enough on BB10 because the OS lacked a proper app ecosystem but I think they stand a good shot at making it successful on Android.

[medic22003]

Not all my friend. Other than communication, my life isn't attached to anything mobile and I get WAAAY more done outside of my phone, but I understand, I'm the minority.

I'm in that minority with you I guess. I grew up without cell phones let alone smart phones. Mobile communications consisted of a Cb in your truck.

Posted via CB10

[medic22003]

And actual users because device churn compared to sales much mean that people who uses it clearly perferred something else.

No they preferred snapchat. There is no comparison in how much better bb10 is than android. Apps available, android loses a ton of users. Just my opinion as a former and sadly, likely future android user.

Posted via CB10

[jmr1015]

Naturally, all of these references of "want and need" are in the context of owning and using a cell phone. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm not trying to compare Apps to food, water, shelter, breathing, etc. That would be nonsense.

I think you are correct--Apps can be conveniences, and they are ONE choice that people can be provided with--and that's a good thing. However, that is not the ONLY choice, nor does that choice (currently) equate to Bonus benefit. There is a trade off for using one OS vs another, and so buying into ONE argument that "one must have apps or you are missing out" is responding to the marketing that suits the desires of some companies.

Options win the day: Well, if all things were equal, then I'd agree, but they aren't equal. Today consumers make a choice between what they can get (including but not exclusively apps). Most apparently have bought into the notion that Apps ARE the thing they need. I'm saying that I have doubts about whether this is in fact a logical evaluation, or successful marketing on someone's part. Maybe a combination of both, BUT again--"We've got an App for that" advertising isn't an accident--it was done to convince people of something, and it worked very, very well. So well, that a company (BlackBerry) that has (imho) a superior product is dumping it (or neglecting it) in order to follow someone else's successful marketing campaign, and the technological path THEY chose to create.

Blackberry once controlled the narrative about Mobile communications--they were the leaders, and now they are the followers.

The bottom line is that there is NOT just one way to accomplish what you want to do in ones Mobile communication wants and needs, and there is no universal solution that provides ALL the options. They all have different options, and people currently believe that "must have apps" is that solution. However, people were LED to that conclusion--and as such, it is POSSIBLE for them to be shown a different way as well--unfortunately no one seems to be trying.

So, all this "it isn't 2006" argument is true...right, instead we're all stuck with mindsets created in 2009 or so instead. Apparently that's the end of Mobile computing progress. Apps--that's it.

KAM

What I'm actually saying is that different systems have different features, and no one offers a complete selection of "options" as has been referenced. Some have more than others, but clearly SOME people value their BB10 experience more than having access to many, many more apps.

I'm saying that people seem to be of the mindset that "apps are it" and that's just ridiculous in my view. I'm not saying that isn't the popular opinion, I'm saying it is just a different choice, and not the only possibility.

For my part, the interaction I have with the phone every time I pick it up is much more important than whether I have to use the Browser to do something, rather than have an app for it. Other people might value having an Instagram to be much more important than how they interface with the device. One is not more inherently "right' than the other.

I'm convinced that the way I interact with the phone is most important. Others have been convinced they need more apps.

It's not weird--it's just an example of how people respond to what they are told and/or experience.

KAM

Lol so by your logic, I guess a personal computer doesn't need many 3rd party applications either. What the base OS and browser can do is good enough, right?

You say "I'm convinced that the way I interact with the phone is most important. Others have been convinced they need more apps."

Maybe the way others interact with their phone is greatly improved by having more apps?

Smartphones are mobile computers. Why would 3rd party software not be important for a mobile computer, the way it is for a personal computer? Windows having the widest selection and support of 3rd party developers and applications is one of the reasons they are the personal computing champion. Android is basically the "Windows" of the smartphone war. They have the most flexible system and a huge library of available applications, which means that Android can potentially be more things to more people.

[Tre Lawrence]

No they preferred snapchat. There is no comparison in how much better bb10 is than android. Apps available, android loses a ton of users. Just my opinion as a former and sadly, likely future android user.

Posted via CB10

The OS "better than" argument is a red herring. The same is said about Android and iOS... heck, webOS enthusiasts say the same.

But I agree: BB10 would have been able to siphon away users from both big platforms if it had the apps to compete.

[extisis]

This, exactly. BB10 can't even rearrange icons on the screen as well as android. Different launchers, widgets, crazy amounts of stuff that is unthinkable on BB10.

unthinkable yet not needed.

[menshawy]

That it has who can develop for it.

Otherwise, nothing imo. BB10 is way better in terms of the OS itself

[lawguyman]

What is the appeal of oxygen other than breathing?


Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

What is the appeal of oxygen other than breathing?

This pretty much sums it up for me. Simple and concise.

In some ways it could be said that Android and iOS have the only advantage they really need.

[ryanza]

BB10, in my experience, is too much of a compromise.

Sure I can side load apps, some will even work, and I can install the Google Play Store, and again some apps might just work.

I'm tired of the workload required to get a fraction of the convenience that iOS and Android users take for granted.

BlackBerry 10 could have been a great OS but it was too late to the party and BlackBerry were and still are too slow in the catch up race.

When I get my iPhone 6S I will miss the BlackBerry Hub.

[KAM1138]

Isn't that like saying progress in computing ended when we started writing software?

That's all apps are. We get to write software for these devices. Not little pages limited by what the browser can do, but full native programs that make use of the computing and sensor capabilities on these amazing little computers people carry around now.


Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk

Yeah that's great. But not everyone needs an app for every little thing they ever do with their amazing device too.

However, on that point...why were Browser based "little pages" so popular and so useful once upon a time, because we've sort of taken a step backwards haven't we? We're not using OS based programs like we used to do long ago.

Further--as of right now, things I would really want--programs like I would run on my PC really aren't what "apps" are. They aren't a replacement for my PC or Laptop at all.

If Apps DID offer that, I'd be much more interested, and that's where I've been for oh...18 years I guess.

So, to me the promise of what apps COULD be really hasn't hit.

KAM

KAM

[KAM1138]

Lol so by your logic, I guess a personal computer doesn't need many 3rd party applications either. What the base OS and browser can do is good enough, right?

You say "I'm convinced that the way I interact with the phone is most important. Others have been convinced they need more apps."

Maybe the way others interact with their phone is greatly improved by having more apps?

Smartphones are mobile computers. Why would 3rd party software not be important for a mobile computer, the way it is for a personal computer? Windows having the widest selection and support of 3rd party developers and applications is one of the reasons they are the personal computing champion. Android is basically the "Windows" of the smartphone war. They have the most flexible system and a huge library of available applications, which means that Android can potentially be more things to more people.

Very poor comparison, because as much as I would like to dream of having all the capabilities in my hand that I do at my desktop, that isn't practical. As I mentioned to another poster--that's the "dream" I've been chasing for a long time, and nothing has come close...at all.

You're comparing Apples and Oranges by saying that a PC without Programs is like a Phone with a lower selection of apps.

Do apps improve the way some people interact with their Phone? Certainly possible, but again--not a great comparison. I'm talking about the basic interface--the HOW if you will, not the what.

Smartphones are mobile computers...with a lot of limitations outside of what theoretical software we could get to run on them. In reality, they are buffed up Phones, Messaging devices, gaming machines and PDAs...NOT able to handle a lot of dedicated computing (at least not the kind I do).

Maybe it is different for you, but a Phone is NOT a PC replacement, no matter how much I WISH it were, and have longed for it to be.

Yes, Android has a huge library of apps...most of which are trash. and which I (just speaking for myself) don't need or care about. That said--I'm sure there are a handful that most people really do (or could) integrate into their daily lives very well.

THAT is what I would like to see--some means of getting those things that are really important, not browsing some library of junk and not finding what I need (which was my experience with Android in the past, and much more recently with iOS). All of these apps, and it still doesn't mean much of anything to me.

But that's me. Others clearly want all that other stuff.

KAM

[KAM1138]

That's all apps are. We get to write software for these devices. Not little pages limited by what the browser can do, but full native programs that make use of the computing and sensor capabilities on these amazing little computers people carry around now.
Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk

You know--thinking about this more--I think you've probably got this backwards.
What are the most popular Apps--those most "needed" by the average consumer? Twitter, Instagram, Facebook?

How do people run all of those things on their computers (PCs)? With "native" apps, or in their Browser? How are the millions upon millions of people who use the limited browsers suffering? People use those programs in their browsers perfectly well.

Have people demanded that they have a Facebook for Windows program (app) for their PC? I don't use facebook so I don't know, but I suspect the answer is no.

So, it seems to me that the question (and this might be what you meant) is that the interface designed for a web browser might be less than idea if just opened on a phone.

KAM

[anon(679606)]

If the bb10 OS OS does not get an upgrade of the android runtime from 4.3 to 5.0 or 6.0 or something, a day will come when the thing is no good anymore to anyone...

For we who like the passport, I would wish for a cyanogen mod to make a franken-passport permitting the device to live on in the modern world looking back on bb10 as a distant memory...

[Croberry1989]

Not only apps, Android apeal is also more costomizable than any other OS. If you're an anti-apple fanboy it would apeal for you that you can have a top end phone and don't give money to the white fruit company

That endless customisation is what makes Android the worst OS there is. It is too unstable, bloated, laggy. Haven't yet seen an Android phone without lag appearing after three months of normal use. People make a blind eye to it because they have payed a lot for their pastic slobs, but they should realise how much Android sucks. And it is completely childish, I might add. All those colours, hurts my brain.

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

That endless customisation is what makes Android the worst OS there is. It is too unstable, bloated, laggy. Haven't yet seen an Android phone without lag appearing after three months of normal use. People make a blind eye to it because they have payed a lot for their pastic slobs, but they should realise how much Android sucks. And it is completely childish, I might add. All those colours, hurts my brain.

Posted via CB10

The "worst" is always relative. If you like to fiddle a lot with the phone and do crazy things with it, Android is the best platform. If you just want reliability, performance and smoothness, iOS is best.

I personally don't care much about deep costomization, but some people do, so it's good that there's a platforma that suits everybody... There is no "worst" OS.

[Mithrandrost]

Interesting article about smartphones essentially becoming more like computers (in less than two years):

http://www.wired.com/2015/02/smartphone-only-computer/

Funny article about features and apps on smartphones which were formally things that you would buy as standalone items:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/560ef211e4b0dd85030c2403


Posted via my Blackberry Classic

[ubizmo]

This is a claim and belief that is perpetuated, and made into a "fact" and projected upon everyone. But we have no way to actually evaluate the NEED among consumers. We know that they WANT it, but people WANT all sorts of things.

The term "need" in this context is not well defined. It's better to think of it as a surrogate for "demand," the verb, as in what people are prepared to insist on. No one needs any app, in some sense of "need", but plenty of people demand certain apps, regardless of what we think of that. Whether they need then or demand them, their behavior on the marketplace will be the same.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[grover5]

That endless customisation is what makes Android the worst OS there is. It is too unstable, bloated, laggy. Haven't yet seen an Android phone without lag appearing after three months of normal use. People make a blind eye to it because they have payed a lot for their pastic slobs, but they should realise how much Android sucks. And it is completely childish, I might add. All those colours, hurts my brain.

Posted via CB10

My Nexus 6 has no lag 9 months after I got it.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[KAM1138]

The term "need" in this context is not well defined. It's better to think of it as a surrogate for "demand," the verb, as in what people are prepared to insist on. No one needs any app, in some sense of "need", but plenty of people demand certain apps, regardless of what we think of that. Whether they need then or demand them, their behavior on the marketplace will be the same.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

I can agree with that. People are demanding things. However, I think that "demand" is largely a created thing. People are TOLD that they "need" (and therefore demand) something quite often.

Apple, followed by Android TOLD people that they needed these things--with successful marketing, and that's what they think. It isn't necessarily a nefarious thing. It could be they simply found that thing that people always wanted and found a way to deliver it to them. BlackBerry has apparently miserably failed at that, and now their strategy is to say "but look, we can give you what you demand now too."

That is not the sort of thing that will turn around a company like BlackBerry. But we will see.

KAM

[ubizmo]

I can agree with that. People are demanding things. However, I think that "demand" is largely a created thing. People are TOLD that they "need" (and therefore demand) something quite often.

Absolutely. Pretty much all "needs", beyond biological and psychological necessities, are created things. They are learned demands.

Apple, followed by Android TOLD people that they needed these things--with successful marketing, and that's what they think. It isn't necessarily a nefarious thing. It could be they simply found that thing that people always wanted and found a way to deliver it to them. BlackBerry has apparently miserably failed at that, and now their strategy is to say "but look, we can give you what you demand now too."

There's nothing BlackBerry can do to make the new "need" go away. They have to meet it and then create a new one. That, of course, is not so easy, especially as a technology matures.

It takes creativity, and I don't think BlackBerry has much of that left. But Apple and Android have established a baseline that can't be ignored. We "need" apps.

A lot of people here claim to NEED the Hub to be "productive". Maybe BlackBerry can make that case. I'm skeptical, but these things are inherently unpredictable.




Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[app_Developer]

You know--thinking about this more--I think you've probably got this backwards.
What are the most popular Apps--those most "needed" by the average consumer? Twitter, Instagram, Facebook?

How do people run all of those things on their computers (PCs)? With "native" apps, or in their Browser? How are the millions upon millions of people who use the limited browsers suffering? People use those programs in their browsers perfectly well.

Have people demanded that they have a Facebook for Windows program (app) for their PC? I don't use facebook so I don't know, but I suspect the answer is no.

So, it seems to me that the question (and this might be what you meant) is that the interface designed for a web browser might be less than idea if just opened on a phone.

KAM

If you write banking apps, you get a much more sophisticated choice of encryption and security mechanisms than what the browser will allow. This then allows you to make more transactions available while reducing risk and cost. You also get nice things like proper check capture (with edge detection client side and all of that)

For things like Twitter you get smoother performance than is possible in the browser. You get to update the users timeline *before* they return. You get push notifications. You get seamless client certs which improve security without bothering the user.

Much of these things would have been possible earlier when BB was the dominant platform. Instead they gave us garbage for a development platform. APIs were so limited that you were actually better off in the browser.

Then came 2008. Apple and Google saw what existed and made it much, much better. And that helped them take over the industry. BB had their chance to do this themselves. They didn't care about apps enough to do it. Their loss.


Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk

[crazy mazy]

I'm not sure what this thread is about, except to show people you have an iPhone 6S. Wow I'm so impressed.

[Techno-guy]

I'm not sure what this thread is about, except to show people you have an iPhone 6S. Wow I'm so impressed.

Huh? OP has a BB Passport and asked a really good question about the appeal of Android on the Priv.

[LuxuryTouringZone]

"What is the appeal of Android outside of app selection?"

For me, it would be the diversity of manufacturers. You can find thousands of different phones with varying screen sizes, specs and prices, but that aside, Blackberry 10 still rules!