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  1. Adam Zeis's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  

    Default RIM: How we manage BlackBerry jailbreak issues

    RIM has posted up a statement on how they handle jailbreaking - from the BlackBerry Security Incident Response Team (which I had no idea existed). Basically the post just explains what jailbreaking is, how RIM handles it, and also that it can apparently void your warranty (which was never an official statement before)

    http://bizblog.blackberry.com/2012/0...ook-jailbreak/

    To be clear, RIM recommends against installing any jailbreaking tool. Customers who use a jailbreaking tool on BlackBerry products void the manufacturer warranty and also increase the long-term risk of negatively impacting the stability and user experience of their BlackBerry products. Use of a jailbreaking tool could also amplify the impact and severity of a future security issue, making your personal data more vulnerable to theft and more difficult to protect. If new jailbreaks for BlackBerry products are reported, rest assured that we will evaluate them and take appropriate action to help protect customers.
    Interesting stuff here. What are your thoughts?
  2. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    #2  

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    On par with other manufacturers... though, as has been seen, not that easy to enforce on the front lines, particularly if unrooting is an easy process.
  3. ayekon's Avatar
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    Standard Operating Procedure...
    The devices can be unrooted, its just an empty scare tactic...
    Pointless RIM bulletin is pointless...
    Long live the Dingle!
  4. The_Adventist's Avatar
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    #4  

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    With this "news", we probably should have another pointless poll.

    I don't want to be responsible for another pointless poll (LOL) but if one was going to be made, it would look something like:

    Will RIM's voiding your warranty for rooting stop you from rooting your PlayBook?
    - Yes
    - No
    - Maybe
    - What's Rooting?


    Pointless but interesting to see what everyone thinks.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  5. Rootbrian's Avatar
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    #5  

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    I don't feel the need to jailbreak or root my blackberry playbook or other devices. That's my thoughts and choice. But it's not mine or rim's problem if you do brick your device during its rooting. You'll only screw yourself over, and your warranty.
  6. Foreverup's Avatar
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    #6  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rootbrian View Post
    I don't feel the need to jailbreak or root my blackberry playbook or other devices. That's my thoughts and choice. But it's not mine or rim's problem if you do brick your device during its rooting. You'll only screw yourself over, and your warranty.
    Isn't kind of mandatory that you do root your device.

    I mean it's right there in your name. You kind of painted yourself into a corner.
    jerryburst likes this.
  7. coolaide's Avatar
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    #7  

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    As long as you can unroot easy people will root. its really hard to "brick" todays tech because when they build them and code them they put recovery bulit in to make it easy for RMAs. And most of the time even if your screen is broken you can still revert to stock. Most large companies dont do warranty repairs in house anyway. They contract it out, and repair companies wont report rooted devices if it will take money out of their pockets.
    Dear RIM,
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  8. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    #8  

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    Yeah... if I can root a device, I will root. Love having admin rights.
  9. Angus_CB's Avatar
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    Voiding your warranty for rooting a device is ridiculous and should be stopped.
    It is no different than Dell voiding your warranty for logging into Windows using Administrator or installing Linux.
    What next RIM? Will you also void my warranty if I sideload an app that doesn't meet your approval?
    Warranty problems are normally hardware related having nothing to do with the OS and software.
    Z30, Nexus 4, Kobo Arc 64GB, Playbook 16GB
  10. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
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    #10  

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    Since RIM does the hardware and OS of the device, they get to determine what/if anything is considered voiding the warranty. When you buy a product where its owned end to end by a single company, you run this risk. It is not the same as Dell, but rather would be something like MSI voiding your warranty for you flashing a custom BIOS onto the motherboard. For those that do not know what they are doing, they can brick the device, causing manufacturer's costs to go up when fixing/replacing them.

    This is RIM covering their from people who would harm their device (and be unable to fix it)
  11. dandbj13's Avatar
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    There is an even simpler reason warranties are voided due to jailbreaking. There is no way to know what caused the problem. If you installed an app that did unauthorized, background processes, there is no way to tell if your overheating problem was from a product defect or unauthorized background processes.

    The buttons on your device wearing out sooner than expected? Perhaps you shouldn't have installed that utility that enables you to use those buttons for gaming. You can no longer prove there was a manufacturer's defect once you intentionally apply a known security exploit.
  12. xsacha's Avatar
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    #12  

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    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    You can no longer prove there was a manufacturer's defect once you intentionally apply a known security exploit.
    They can't prove that you rooted your tablet either
    Developer of PPSSPP, ReQognise, Dingleberry, PB Connect, Sachesi, Sachup + Sachibar and other Qt apps. Porter of many opensource Qt apps.
    lyricidal likes this.
  13. dandbj13's Avatar
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    #13  

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsacha View Post
    They can't prove that you rooted your tablet either
    Ah... the integrity of the jailbreaker. Therefore, when you take your device in for a warranty repair for something that is not a manufacturer's defect, you are just a thief at that point. Can't imagine why companies are opposed to jailbreaking. The fact that you can get away with it does not justify it.
  14. _StephenBB81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Ah... the integrity of the jailbreaker. Therefore, when you take your device in for a warranty repair for something that is not a manufacturer's defect, you are just a thief at that point. Can't imagine why companies are opposed to jailbreaking. The fact that you can get away with it does not justify it.
    Back in my PC overclocking day there was the "ethical OCers" group that once we OC'ed something we didn't return if for failures, but many people would talk about returning mother boards and processors because of faults during OC'ing

    Which like you said is essentially theft
    oops...
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  15. kdartigliere's Avatar
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    #15  

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    ROOT all the way. My Nexus runs smoother than ever rooted with custom ROM and Matr1x kernel. Even though I have yet to root my Playbook, I must agree that if you brick our damage in the process you should be at fault. Which by the way is a very difficult task to do in itself if you ask me. All it takes it's a little research

    Sent from my Kanged out Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
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    #16  

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    I think everyone is forgetting something - there was never sufficient access on the Playbook to corrupt the OS beyond what an OS wipe would repair.
    So the discussion on ethics, while valuable, is irrelevant in a Playbook context (for now...).
    KermEd likes this.
  17. Bubblefat's Avatar
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    Never understood rooting or jailbreaking. Buy the device you want, for the features. If you want android, go buy a droid tablet. I love my stock PB.
  18. ody360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubblefat View Post
    Never understood rooting or jailbreaking. Buy the device you want, for the features. If you want android, go buy a droid tablet. I love my stock PB.
    My ipad and itouch are jailbroken so that I can access other apps by different developers, themes, mywi, etc. When my playbook was jailbroken, it gave us additional features like huluberry, custom themes and icons, and sure, access to market, which allowed for a few additional apps to be installed that didn't work correctly when just sideloaded. So in essence, it was a more fully featured device.

    Stock is also great and I didn't do much with a rooted pb compared to others, but that freedom to change something when in the mood or just to tinker inside the file system... it just made the device feel more my own.
  19. #19  

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    Personally, I hate the term jailbreaking. I like the term rooting the device, or more specifically, logging in as an administrator to your device so you can change anything you want instead of only the safest options while understaning you may need to revert to a clean state in the event of issues. You do this specifically to enable lower level system changes you could not enable otherwise including choosing to change the safety and security of your device (if you so wish). The PB is a gadget (toy) for me. Who cares what you want to do with it, its your toy, you paid for it. You also dont need to explain why - its yours

    Obviously, if someone accesses an admin account on the unit, they will be able to do a fresh wipe of the PB in emergencies. So the person complaining about ripping RIM off, you have no idea what your talking about - the worst case scenario does not reflect the majority of failure scenarios with this specificndecice. Access to the administrator account can be changed at anytime if you wish. But if you log into it as an admin and you experience a 50 pixel failure there is no reason why you shouldnt wipe it - verify it is still broken - and send it in for repair. It is broken due to manufacturing issue most likely due to cost savings in device design or anfailure to adequetly test the product.

    For the people who say the PB does everything you want it to, you fit the majority of who RIM targets with their device. People like me would like to change the root flash user agent and hosts file to stop advertisements etc. Etc. It really has nothing to do with Android, easier Android access is a side-effect, not the goal. Changing system settings for my gadget to better meet my requirements at no cost to me, is the ultimate goal.
    Last edited by KermEd; 03-25-2012 at 02:20 AM.
  20. LimeTripBlog's Avatar
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    #20  

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    Why would anyone root their playbook in the first place, rim should have given it's customers what they wanted. Imo rooting is the only way to have fun or run playbook to its full capacity. Dingleberry team has done something that RIM should have.
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  21. jamdmyers's Avatar
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    #21  

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    I've rooted all my devices over time. PB before we got stuck as well, I'd had a NookColor rooted back when I was waiting for the playbook.

    From a business standpoint - Returned / bricked items cause overhead, which RIM can not afford at the moment, they can't protect people from themselves, the ones who don't understand how to root or the consequences.

    From a Security Standpoint - RIMs big hold.. so if there is even market perception of unauthorized access possibility people may be hesitant (corp use)

    From User Standpoint - I think they don't like the idea of us making it better than them, let's face it rooting allows mods and hacks to features they don't provide. Opening a whole sub culture of BB ROMs etc.. who wants that..
  22. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    #22  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamdmyers View Post
    I've rooted all my devices over time. PB before we got stuck as well, I'd had a NookColor rooted back when I was waiting for the playbook.

    From a business standpoint - Returned / bricked items cause overhead, which RIM can not afford at the moment, they can't protect people from themselves, the ones who don't understand how to root or the consequences.

    From a Security Standpoint - RIMs big hold.. so if there is even market perception of unauthorized access possibility people may be hesitant (corp use)

    From User Standpoint - I think they don't like the idea of us making it better than them, let's face it rooting allows mods and hacks to features they don't provide. Opening a whole sub culture of BB ROMs etc.. who wants that..
    Depending on ow you look at it, that helps RIM.

    Remember how B&N got testy when the Nook Color was first rooted? Eventually, B&N discovered that community third party development helped move units BIG time.

    XDA does more for the advancement of Android in general than any other factor, IMHO. It is double-edged sword though, and RIM may want to be careful.
    Magnesus likes this.
  23. Ipuvaepe's Avatar
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    #23  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angus_CB View Post
    Voiding your warranty for rooting a device is ridiculous and should be stopped.
    It is no different than Dell voiding your warranty for logging into Windows using Administrator or installing Linux.
    What next RIM? Will you also void my warranty if I sideload an app that doesn't meet your approval?
    Warranty problems are normally hardware related having nothing to do with the OS and software.
    It is no different at all, and it's also illegal for them to do so. Good luck on enforcement though.

    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    There is an even simpler reason warranties are voided due to jailbreaking. There is no way to know what caused the problem. If you installed an app that did unauthorized, background processes, there is no way to tell if your overheating problem was from a product defect or unauthorized background processes.

    The buttons on your device wearing out sooner than expected? Perhaps you shouldn't have installed that utility that enables you to use those buttons for gaming. You can no longer prove there was a manufacturer's defect once you intentionally apply a known security exploit.
    Doesn't matter, they have to prove that you caused the fault in order to void the warranty, not the other way around.

    Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ftw
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  24. clieman's Avatar
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    #24  

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    Root mean compromised security. Which is a big NO NO for RIM because many corporation choose BlackBerry because of their high security standard.

    Having a "rooted" Playbook does not help RIM to position the PB as a viable tablet for the enterprise.

    So I think it is a good choice that RIM plug the hole for PB rooting, and we do not want pirated PB software to ruin the developer's confident in the machine as well.
  25. bounce007's Avatar
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    #25  

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    Let us place ourselves in RIM's shoes: We are a multi-billion dollar corporation that has made a name for ourselves as a company that sells mobile devices and services with TOP-NOTCH security. Rooting, whether we want to admit it or not, compromises the security of our devices and credibility as a company that sells mobile devices and services with TOP-NOTCH security. So what should we do to maintain our reputation? Work to seal any holes that might compromise the security of our devices and the credibility of our brand, i.e., we block rooting.

    This is what RIM has done in my opinion and to be fair, we would probably do the same if we ran the company (well most of us )

    I personally love the fact that we could (and can) root the PlayBook and I am not defending RIM! I am just looking at things from their vantage point.

    Think of a good high school teacher who has a reputation for being a person of principle, discipline, and one who sets an example for high school students. I'm sure that teacher wouldn't mind being able to smoke and drink (if they smoke and drink) wherever they please but he/she has to set an example for his/her students and so does not do it in front of them and even preaches (albeit hypocritically) against smoking and drinking just to be exemplary to the students - to maintain his/her reputation.

    I'm sure this analogy is probably the same for some of the decision making RIM executives. I'm sure they wouldn't mind rooting their PlayBooks but they have to say no to rooting to maintain the reputation of their company. For all we know some of them might even root their own PlayBooks!

    It wouldn't be entirely fair to say RIM shouldn't block rooting, without looking at things from their perspective.

    BUT I SAY ROOT ON!!!
    Last edited by bounce007; 04-23-2012 at 06:51 AM.

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