[Chaplain_Clancy]

I was just thinking about the history of the iPad and the apps developed for it after hearing about all those who are complaining about the lack of apps for the Playbook.
BB have never traditionally been a major player in the apps game prefering things to be native, but have any of you thought about how the developement of apps for iPad progressed?

App Store (iOS) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Has this to say:
iPad Applications

The iPad launched in April 2010 with over 3000 applications designed for the iPad. By December 2010, just eight months after the release of the iPad, over 50,000 apps are available for the device.

As of July 2011, 16 months after the iPad launched, there are over 100,000 apps available at the App Store designed specifically for the device.

So let's all be patient, time worked for Apple, I'm positive it will work for RIM.

[FranzJoseph]

Well if that`s is true then hopefully there will be a huge flux of apps coming since the NDK is going to be released soon.

We`re in the home stretch guys!

[shootsscores]

Bridge supported android apps as well.

[awattwell]

They're were some good apps and you could use iPhone apps. There is not a single playbook app that is really any good.

I love the Crack Berry app.

[Economist101]

So let's all be patient, time worked for Apple, I'm positive it will work for RIM.

App World was been around for 30 months, yet it has a mere 30K apps despite the huge success of the BlackBerry. This is not a time problem; it's a return-on-investment problem.

[shootsscores]

I love the Crack Berry app.

Never use it. Straight to the full site for me.

[Thebigo3d]

App World was been around for 30 months, yet it has a mere 30K apps despite the huge success of the BlackBerry. This is not a time problem; it's a return-on-investment problem.

I agree. A lot of this comes down to a marketing problem. If we had a steve jobs at blackberry, and a marketing budget that was about 10 times larger. blackberry could convince the world to buy a playbook.

case in point, the media looks at software the playbook doesn't have but rim doesn't have the marketing to put a positive spin. On the other hand the ipad gets introduced with no camera but apple has the budget to convince people that they dont need a camera (lol at least until the ipad 2 comes out. then apple has the budget to convince the world that their crazy if they don't have a camera)

[shootsscores]

I love the Crack Berry app.

Never use it. Straight to the full site for me.

[CrackedBarry]

In europe you find few iphones and fewer ipads. Its a fact.

Since Im from Europe, and actually right now am sitting on a commuter train in Copenhagen, might I say:

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?

Around half the smartphones I see here are iPhones (roughly half of those iPhone 4)
The other half are Android phones (again, roughly half high end) and occasionally you see a Nokia. Never see a Blackberry.

IPhones are HUGELY popular here, and the iPad is starting to be common too. A year ago I never saw an iPad. Now it happens several times a week.

" However in the case of iphones i think some of its failure overseas has to do with cost. Carriers abroad do not subsidize part of the phone costs like they do here... and iphones are far more expensive than berries."

First of all, might I just again point out how far off you are regarding iPhone popularity.

Secondly, you are wrong about carrier subsidizing. Though the rules vary from country to country, you can get subsidized handsets in pretty much all European countries.

In Denmark the rules only allow the carrier to tie you down for six months, but you can still get an iPhone pretty much for free.

But in most cases you have to pay around 500 Euros for an iPhone 4, but that has done nothing to make it less popular.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Economist101]

I agree. A lot of this comes down to a marketing problem. If we had a steve jobs at blackberry, and a marketing budget that was about 10 times larger. blackberry could convince the world to buy a playbook.

RIM spent $500 million in "marketing" in FY2011 (which ended this past February), and generated $20 billion in revenue, which is $1 in marketing for every $40 in revenue. Meanwhile, Apple spent $700 million in "marketing" in FY2010 for all of its products (iOS, Macs, iTunes, App Store, etc) to generate $65 billion in revenue, which is $1 in marketing for every $92 in revenue.

In other words, Apple spent just 40% more than RIM on marketing, but made 230% more revenue. Yes, Apple has terrific marketing, but marketing doesn't explain the huge (and growing) disparity in device sales, revenue, profit etc.

[joshua_sx1]

During iPad evolution, there are no competition or if there are, only few and not all of them has a vision like Apple. Apple visualize the time when people are going to embrace the concept of "tablets" as it is. And whether we accept it or not, Apple succeeded on that vision. That is why even their products are not perfect and expensive, people (majority) buy them.

RIM, on the other hand, can no longer invest that much "time" Apple did. They will surely die. They have to pick-up the current technology, use it and be competitive with others if they want to join the wagon...or find another "vision" and invest on it...

[adjdudley21]

lets be real for a second... just like album sales dont equal good music... neither does ipad/iphone sales...here i am in mexico... hmmm havent seen 1iphone.... or 1android... was in europe earlier this year... ooooo for every iphone i saw i saw atleast 8bberry devices... oh and about the ipad.. if itunes were to not work... how ever would u do anything with your ipad...cant look up 80% of the web... cant move files around... cant download to it.. cant upload to it.. man when u take the name out of it.. if it were, lets say, a nokia tablet... oh gosh that thing would have crashed and burned a loooong time ago... but nooooo because its apple and apple just rules the world everything they hsve is revolutionary .. even that first iphone that launched without things a dumb nokia phone could do... mms anyone.. gtfoh with all this rim bashing

[falconeight]

lets be real for a second... just like album sales dont equal good music... neither does ipad/iphone sales...here i am in mexico... hmmm havent seen 1iphone.... or 1android... was in europe earlier this year... ooooo for every iphone i saw i saw atleast 8bberry devices... oh and about the ipad.. if itunes were to not work... how ever would u do anything with your ipad...cant look up 80% of the web... cant move files around... cant download to it.. cant upload to it.. man when u take the name out of it.. if it were, lets say, a nokia tablet... oh gosh that thing would have crashed and burned a loooong time ago... but nooooo because its apple and apple just rules the world everything they hsve is revolutionary .. even that first iphone that launched without things a dumb nokia phone could do... mms anyone.. gtfoh with all this rim bashing

80% of the web?.....really? Where did you get those numbers from? You don't need iTunes you get do it on the iPad plus Netflix, hulu, etc. It's hard to find any visual media content for the playbook.

[CrackedBarry]

As of July 2011, 16 months after the iPad launched, there are over 100,000 apps available at the App Store designed specifically for the device.

So let's all be patient, time worked for Apple, I'm positive it will work for RIM.

The comparison doesn't work because:

A: The numbers are for special iPad apps. But besides these apps, that were developed specifically for the iPad, the iPad could also run regular iPhone apps. In other words: Beside those 3000 iPad apps, iPad users could also at any time choose from over 100.000 iPhone apps.

B: The iPad was a huge commercial hit. Developers flocked to develop specific iPad apps because there were millions sold. The Playbook with around 500.000 sold so far isn't even close to as attractive for developers.

C: At the time, the iPad were the only one of its kind. Playbook on the other hand, is only one out of 3 tablet platforms (In reality there are more, but let's exclude WebOS, Windows and a couple of different Linux) and to make things worse, it's the poorest selling of the three.

But who knows, you might be right, and there might be lots of apps coming. Odds are against it though, and you can't really use the comparison for the reasons above.

[kb5zht]

Originally Posted by falconeight
They're were some good apps and you could use iPhone apps. There is not a single playbook app that is really any good.

That is a matter of opinion. I find while there are many that dont fit my needs, many do and are well implemented.

80% of the web?.....really? Where did you get those numbers from? You don't need iTunes you get do it on the iPad plus Netflix, hulu, etc. It's hard to find any visual media content for the playbook.

I noticed you didnt reapond to the rest of his comments.

In europe you find few iphones and fewer ipads. Its a fact. However in the case of iphones i think some of its failure overseas has to do with cost. Carriers abroad do not subsidize part of the phone costs like they do here... and iphones are far more expensive than berries.

[Jdpraise]

The problem with viewing the addition of apps from a historical perspective is that the average person, the person needed for your tech to reach critical mass isn't buying with the history in mind. They want what they want now, they see masses of apps on competing platforms and very few here.
It hasn't helped that RIM has been difficult with app approval, nor does not having a native sdk help. Yes i'm aware that Apple didn't have an sdk when it was released, however that doesn't really matter we aren't competing in the past. We are competing now. The fact is, RIM needs to deliver on the promises made when the playbook was launched regarding functionality.
Yes the bridge is an interesting feature, however it was spoken about in tandem with native support. Basically the hundreds of millions of people locked on cellphone contracts that aren't bb are also written off on the playbook as it is today.

[CrackedBarry]

In europe you find few iphones and fewer ipads. Its a fact.

Oh, its a fact, eh?
That's funny, cause I'm from Europe, as a matter of fact am typing this on a commuter train in Copenhagen, and my initial reaction to your comment is...

WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?

IPhones and Android is just as common as in the states. Of the smartphones I see every day on the train, roughly half are iPhones (half of those iPhone 4) and the other half Android phones. (again, half of those newer, high end handsets).

I occasionally see a Nokia smartphone, but never a Blackberry.

Ipads were very rare about a year ago, but these days I see one several times a week, as tablets are just getting popular.

" However in the case of iphones i think some of its failure overseas has to do with cost. Carriers abroad do not subsidize part of the phone costs like they do here... and iphones are far more expensive than berries. "

You're also wrong on the subsidies. Though the rules are different from country to country, some form of subsidized handsets are available in pretty much all European countries.

In Denmark the cell company can only tie you down for a six month contract, but different form of subsidies still exist. (sometimes it takes the form of a lease).

And its possible to get an iPhone for free with certain contracts. Usually they cost around 500 Euros though. Not that that has done anything to deter its popularity.

(Blackberries are available from only one provider. But they cost pretty much the same as an iPhone, with or without a contract, so they're extremely rare.)

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Waks]

Basically the hundreds of millions of people locked on cellphone contracts that aren't bb are also written off on the playbook as it is today.

Actually, this is what's keeping me from getting a PB right now. Unless a 3G/4G PB gets released, or a confirmation that tethering a PB thru an iPhone 4 works (trying to research, but to no avail), that's the only time Ill get one.

[brucep1]

lets be real for a second... just like album sales dont equal good music... neither does ipad/iphone sales...here i am in mexico... hmmm havent seen 1iphone.... or 1android... was in europe earlier this year... ooooo for every iphone i saw i saw atleast 8bberry devices...

ok so what's your point? you think because of your experience of never seeing an iphone or android phone in person means what exactly?

oh and about the ipad.. if itunes were to not work... how ever would u do anything with your ipad...cant look up 80% of the web... cant move files around...

80% of the web? no i don't think so..judging by you never seeing an Apple product in your life, then maybe I understand how you are so misinformed. Actually, most web sites already have an HTML5 version of their sites or are moving towards one in the near future.

man when u take the name out of it.. if it were, lets say, a nokia tablet... oh gosh that thing would have crashed and burned a loooong time ago... but nooooo because its apple and apple just rules the world everything they hsve is revolutionary .. even that first iphone that launched without things a dumb nokia phone could do... mms anyone.. gtfoh with all this rim bashing

So Apple sells because they rule the world? What does not launching how many years ago without MMS have anything to do with the market of 2011?

So many people on here say, well the iphone didnt launch with an App Store. Who cares? Really? The market dictates what you can and cant have at launch in todays day and age. When products are launched without features, it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to point out the shortcomings of products launched years ago to try to justify and rationalize it.

[kbz1960]

Actually, this is what's keeping me from getting a PB right now. Unless a 3G/4G PB gets released, or a confirmation that tethering a PB thru an iPhone 4 works (trying to research, but to no avail), that's the only time Ill get one.

Doesn't iphone have wifi hotspot? I don't know that it matters what phone you have for tethering but maybe it does. If you can find a store or friend with one maybe you can try to tether.

[Thebigo3d]

RIM spent $500 million in "marketing" in FY2011 (which ended this past February), and generated $20 billion in revenue, which is $1 in marketing for every $40 in revenue. Meanwhile, Apple spent $700 million in "marketing" in FY2010 for all of its products (iOS, Macs, iTunes, App Store, etc) to generate $65 billion in revenue, which is $1 in marketing for every $92 in revenue.

In other words, Apple spent just 40% more than RIM on marketing, but made 230% more revenue. Yes, Apple has terrific marketing, but marketing doesn't explain the huge (and growing) disparity in device sales, revenue, profit etc.

The problem is that you have to look at the current market. Apple and Google right now are kings and blackberry is the underdog. It takes a **** of a lot more marketing power/dollars to pull your company and products out of a negative public opinion.

The problem is that the general public doesn't want to research. They want to be told what to do and unfortunately its human nature to remember the bad and forget the good.

[Thebigo3d]

So many people on here say, well the iphone didnt launch with an App Store. Who cares? Really? The market dictates what you can and cant have at launch in todays day and age. When products are launched without features, it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to point out the shortcomings of products launched years ago to try to justify and rationalize it.

People bash the PB and RIM because they don't have certain features and apps. The point of this tread is just to mention that when iOS was first created it also was missing many features.

The problem is that people today are trying to compare blackberry QNX to iOS4 (and soon iOS5).

Operating Systems are a very complex and require years of changes and constant evolution.

Comparing QNX to iOS5 is like comparing googles new OS for netbooks with windows/OS X.

QNX is too young for these comparisons.

[Economist101]

The problem is that the general public doesn't want to research. They want to be told what to do and unfortunately its human nature to remember the bad and forget the good.

That same general public wasn't researching in 2008 either, back when RIM was leading North American smartphone market share. So why is it that people in North America suddenly stopped buying? The iPhone launched in 2007, so if its success was purely marketing, why didn't Apple take the lead then, instead of 3 years later? Why didn't the "no research" group just buy the iPhone in July 2007?

but nooooo because its apple and apple just rules the world everything they hsve is revolutionary .. even that first iphone that launched without things a dumb nokia phone could do... mms anyone.. gtfoh with all this rim bashing

If a name was all Apple needed for success, it would currently hold more than 10% of the worldwide PC market.

[Kerms]

People bash the PB and RIM because they don't have certain features and apps. The point of this tread is just to mention that when iOS was first created it also was missing many features.

The problem is that people today are trying to compare blackberry QNX to iOS4 (and soon iOS5).

Operating Systems are a very complex and require years of changes and constant evolution.

Comparing QNX to iOS5 is like comparing googles new OS for netbooks with windows/OS X.

QNX is too young for these comparisons.

People don't care about how something else started. It's all about today.
Cars didn't have power steering when they first came out. Don't try to sell me one today that doesn't have it.

RIM & Android had the advantage of seeing what Apple did and could build on it. If you know you're coming out with a new OS get the NDK to developers a head of release so you can have applications for it at time of release. The PlayBook came after the HC release and saw that people griped about few HC apps. The one thing Android had in it's favor was that it had already had tablets on the market and a following. RIM was coming in fresh, new OS & device.

QNX isn't brand spanking new either, sure it has some modifications for it but to say it's too young for comparisons going by that logic by the time it matures to iOS4/5 and HoneyComb/IceCream level Apple will be on iOS9 and Android on Dessert.x and QNX will never be on par if RIM is around making PlayBooks.

HP dumping all those TouchPads on the market has had to hurt RIM sales, actually it probably bit a piece from everyone. Samsung has a 7.7 device coming out later this year.

RIM had better get on the ball.

[Thebigo3d]

That same general public wasn't researching in 2008 either, back when RIM was leading North American smartphone market share. So why is it that people in North America suddenly stopped buying? The iPhone launched in 2007, so if its success was purely marketing, why didn't Apple take the lead then, instead of 3 years later? Why didn't the "no research" group just buy the iPhone in July 2007?

The iPhone release was purely marketing. At the time people were gobbling up iPods and anything apple. 500,000 iPhones in 3 days of launch.

500,000 Units Sold In Three Days: Was The iPhone Launch A Success?

The reason they didn't take the lead right away is because of a few things.

1. Supply
2. People on contract.
3. Its easy to look at a percentage but you have to look at the real numbers 1% means billions of phones world wide. It takes time to build those numbers.

marketing is king in today's culture.

I will admit RIM has their work cut out for them. They need serious innovation, and marketing to bring them out of this slump. If they can get out of this slump they can increase ROI for developers. More developers means more quality apps.