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  1. Zildjian71's Avatar
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    Default Scary apps that need full disclosure

    So I just downloaded a puzzle game from App World called Puzzle locked. It immediately wanted permission to access the Internet, device information and the gps!

    What in the world does a non multi player game need with all of that? What does the app collect and send off to whom for what purpose?

    In today's world that's pretty scary. I would think that RIM would require a full disclosure as to what the developer is doing in order to protect RIM's reputation for security and protection of their users.

    It's a free app but beware.

    I'm not a gullible iPhone or Android user and neither do I think the rest of you are and neither should a PlayBook app developer think we are.
    .
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    Teal'c on Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Episode 14
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    Information Technology is fun, play with IT!
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  2. BB_Bmore's Avatar
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    Agreed consumer beware I have noticed a lot of this going on. Be mindful and if it doesn't seem right then it probably isn't.
    I waited...It launched...Im still waiting...
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    Zildjian71 (12-26-2012) 
  3. #3  

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    I have the same problem. I wish there were more gradations of Permission. But the one that wants access to Personal info or location really has me on edge when there's no need.
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    Zildjian71 (12-26-2012) 
  4. Zakcy's Avatar
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    Well, the only reason why they need that information is to determine what sort of people like playing the game. Your geographic location is a necessary component, as well as the kind of device the game/app is being played on. They wouldn't use this information to hurt you in any way. They didn't ask for your personal information either (except location), so there's no possible third-party company that would be interested in the gathered information. The info they ask for is completely useless to everyone except the developers that consider the statistics when making improvements to the app.
  5. GV2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakcy View Post
    Well, the only reason why they need that information is to determine what sort of people like playing the game. Your geographic location is a necessary component, as well as the kind of device the game/app is being played on. They wouldn't use this information to hurt you in any way. They didn't ask for your personal information either (except location), so there's no possible third-party company that would be interested in the gathered information. The info they ask for is completely useless to everyone except the developers that consider the statistics when making improvements to the app.
    If its so harmless why wouldn't they do a better job of disclosure? In fact they could easily just ask the questions you just listed. Why hide it? Whenever I vet one of the request for this I just say bu bye.
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  6. jwn66's Avatar
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    I insta delete any game or app that will not launch after I deny all permissions asked, unless the app is reputable.
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    Zildjian71 (12-26-2012) 
    F2, pcguy514, Zildjian71 and 2 others like this.
  7. sexybabe88's Avatar
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    Default Scary apps that need full disclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by Zakcy View Post
    Well, the only reason why they need that information is to determine what sort of people like playing the game. Your geographic location is a necessary component, as well as the kind of device the game/app is being played on. They wouldn't use this information to hurt you in any way. They didn't ask for your personal information either (except location), so there's no possible third-party company that would be interested in the gathered information. The info they ask for is completely useless to everyone except the developers that consider the statistics when making improvements to the app.
    facebook has no intention on harming you when they store your information even after you've deleted your account. they just want information.

    oh gmail as well. completely right to sniff through your emails to give u personalized ads.

    i would rather hand over my information to such giants than some small time developer. at least the giants come under heavy scrutiny.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
  8. Techno-Emigre's Avatar
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    This is an increasing problem that tics me off. If there are legit reasons for wanting info then developers need to be more clear.
    I would like to see periodic CB articles addressing privacy issues And a chart on all apps building on the age rating they now have. It could quickly give lots of info like if it works without wifi access, are there pop up ads or items for sale, if it requires location or personal info.
    If there are legit reasons for having my info that could be addressed in a CB article. Just saying "I would never misuse your info and you can trust me" doesn't cut it. Get in line behind Google, FaceBook and anyone else I have broken up with. No trust, no relationship.
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    Zildjian71 (12-26-2012) 
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  9. Zildjian71's Avatar
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    Thank you for getting in on this thread. Most of you have repeated my concerns with reason.

    Google uses eye candy and Android to lure people into following ad links that they make big bucks off of, if you are subscribed to the Google Play app store then you agreed to allow their processing scripts to run in the background on your device that you paid for. The fact that they are profiting off of my personal business and activities without paying me is causing loss, my loss and that is causing harm. If you are a Google user or Android user then you are an unpaid revenue generator.

    "Beware lest they make merchandise of you!"

    The same for Facebook as well. Just because the technology enables you to do something that you wouldn't do without the technology does not make it morally or ethically right to do. Remember the "Don't Copy That Floppy" anti pirating campaign. The ease of duplicating a floppy disk erased all sense of honesty and honor, if it is so easy to do then why not?

    Even this web sight uses Google Ad Sense to track you from where you came from to get to this page and where you went when you left. There are about 20 ad scripts running on this page alone all to profit off of you being here. If you go to the terms of use you will see that you gave permission by being here, which is a common practice.

    App stores should require full disclosure of usage stats on a landable web page along with support contact info, just like any publicly held corporation must post their earnings publicly.

    Most of the beginner developers have no support other than a permanently ignored email address because they never considered the volume of downloads and users for their app and are overwhelmed. Such beginner developers if not prepared to support and respond then should not be gathering such usage statistics if they cannot be accountable for them. If you want to play with user data like the big dogs then be held accountable just like the big dogs.
    .
    To resist the influence of others the knowledge of oneself is of most importance.

    Teal'c on Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Episode 14
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    Information Technology is fun, play with IT!
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  10. Bobert_123's Avatar
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    #10  

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    I don't touch any games or apps that aren't from big name devs so I have nothing to worry about...
    Sent from my NEW PASSPORT or a soon to be BB10 PlayBook

    - BlackBerry Curve 8530 (Virgin Mobile) - BlackBerry Bold 9900 (T-Mobile) - BlackBerry PlayBook 64 gig - BlackBerry Z10[/B] (T-Mobile) - BlackBerry Z30 WHITE (Unlocked) - Blackberry Passport (Unlocked)
  11. daglesj's Avatar
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    I haven't seen adverts on a website in years on my PCs. Makes it look like it was back in 1994 when I first started on the web and the corporations hadn't turned it into a diseased ***** (less Time New Roman though).

    Always amazed how much of a mess the web looks with adverts when I use my Playbook.
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  12. ThaSwapMeetPimp's Avatar
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    #12  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakcy View Post
    Well, the only reason why they need that information is to determine what sort of people like playing the game. Your geographic location is a necessary component, as well as the kind of device the game/app is being played on. They wouldn't use this information to hurt you in any way. They didn't ask for your personal information either (except location), so there's no possible third-party company that would be interested in the gathered information. The info they ask for is completely useless to everyone except the developers that consider the statistics when making improvements to the app.
    How are my exact geographic coordinates important to developers? It's none of their business, nor anyone elses. And if they know my location, can access it at any time because I gave permission for them to do so, then, when asked, they can tell government entities my location, they can tell corporate entities my location, they can tell NGO entities my location, etc...whether they have my permission or not.

    The point is its none of their business.

    Wake up. These entities do not have your best interests in mind. We live under a system of oligarchical collectivism, and any info you freely give up will be used to advertise to you, track you, monetize every aspect of you and your culture, and marginalize you and destroy your belief in your own inherent human rights in favor of lining the pockets of the higher ups and major stock holders.

    Privacy should be a basic human right. I shouldn't have to sign some specific agreement that tells a company whether they can or cannot collect my information, it should be understood that such information collection should not be engaged in in the first place.
    - Hashashin Jay posting from Soundwave, my 64gb Playbook (thanks Crackberry Forum members!)
    "You may have forgot me, but I didn't forget you" - Sinister 6000 (aka Kool Keith)
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  13. #13  

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    Well, I have now seen the opposite side of an app that closes aspects because I refused permissions. Now, even UNinstalling and REinstalling does not provide any access to its Permissions. So unless I do a security wipe, I've lost aspects of the app. While other apps, have generally given me an option each time I open them to change Permissions. Can't win with this nonsense. Apparently, a Security wipe (debrick, maybe) might be necessary and that is not a task taken lightly with 60gigs of files to backup or restore.
  14. harshalbid271's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F2 View Post
    Well, I have now seen the opposite side of an app that closes aspects because I refused permissions. Now, even UNinstalling and REinstalling does not provide any access to its Permissions. So unless I do a security wipe, I've lost aspects of the app. While other apps, have generally given me an option each time I open them to change Permissions. Can't win with this nonsense. Apparently, a Security wipe (debrick, maybe) might be necessary and that is not a task taken lightly with 60gigs of files to backup or restore.
    You can modify app permissions from the security settings on PlayBook
  15. ThaSwapMeetPimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harshalbid271 View Post
    As a 'small name developer', it sucks to read the posts on this thread. Apps need permissions for many simple tasks. For example, maintaining a leaderboard with scoreloop will require access to internet and device identifying information. Believe it or not, indies are not out to murder you in your sleep, or sell your information to Satan.

    Oh, and I think the idea about *only* supporting Billion Dollar Corporations is terrific!
    But why exactly do small time developers need to know where I am at?

    And I am not afraid of my info being sold to a non existent entity like Satan, I am concerned that it will be sold to human beings who have much worse intentions and are more capable of causing me harm than a fictional character from a book which has no real relevance to reality as it is today.

    And they would murder you in your sleep, if they had a reason to. Im not saying indie developers, but the information they collect could be accessed and used, by people who would murder you in your sleep. The less people who have my info, the less people pressure can be exerted upon to give up my info, and the safer I am.
    - Hashashin Jay posting from Soundwave, my 64gb Playbook (thanks Crackberry Forum members!)
    "You may have forgot me, but I didn't forget you" - Sinister 6000 (aka Kool Keith)
  16. ThaSwapMeetPimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sexybabe88 View Post
    facebook has no intention on harming you when they store your information even after you've deleted your account. they just want information.

    oh gmail as well. completely right to sniff through your emails to give u personalized ads.

    i would rather hand over my information to such giants than some small time developer. at least the giants come under heavy scrutiny.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. I'm assuming so. LOL Facebook is horrible! I deleted my account like 2 years ago, when I realized how close it is to the voluntary online database John Poindexter called for after September 11th, 2001, where as many Americans as could be convinced to, entered their addresses, phone numbers, current location, current activities, etc...

    Don't even get me started on Google. Hopefully BB10 will be a success and encourage the developers of apps like Mango and Steam client to make working native apps for PB so I don't have to use sideloaded android apps anymore. Prefer to phase out Google completely from my life. Some of us just prefer privacy. And I, personally, hate being advertised to constantly.

    "Sever commitments and burn your fingerprints, cause insignificance is the nemesis to complete omnipotence" - Murder Mouth, SunnMoonSekt
    Last edited by ThaSwapMeetPimp; 12-28-2012 at 03:47 PM.
    - Hashashin Jay posting from Soundwave, my 64gb Playbook (thanks Crackberry Forum members!)
    "You may have forgot me, but I didn't forget you" - Sinister 6000 (aka Kool Keith)
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  17. #17  

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    Quote Originally Posted by harshalbid271 View Post
    You can modify app permissions from the security settings on PlayBook
    NOT if the app does not even appear there!!!!! UNinstalled, REinstalled, restarted, rebooted, UN and RE again about 3 times. The Permissions for that app does not appear.
  18. Zildjian71's Avatar
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    Look in not trying to not have apps that need certain info I just want a full disclosure in app and on the support site, and the option to opt out without killing the function of the app and as my original post indicates specially a simple non online game such as Puzzle lock.

    To me its like getting email from some supposed banker in Nigeria telling me some long lost relative left me some monster bank account and they want my info to send me the funds.

    If the app doesn't warrant the need then why does it ask for it?

    If you're a developer reading this and getting upset then maybe you need to remember when you were on this side of the fence. Please do make money creating great apps but also please be willing to be transparent in your handling of data that doesn't belong to you only placed in your trust.
    .
    To resist the influence of others the knowledge of oneself is of most importance.

    Teal'c on Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Episode 14
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    Information Technology is fun, play with IT!
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  19. joshua_sx1's Avatar
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    Well, we are only probably too much concerned of those developers asking private information... but if we will extend our "concerns", we should be considering social-media sites, free-domain email addresses, and even forum sites like this... these people, or we can say business minded persons are profiting from us... believe it or not...
  20. zolt11's Avatar
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    Default Scary apps that need full disclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by jwn66 View Post
    I insta delete any game or app that will not launch after I deny all permissions asked, unless the app is reputable.
    same here +1

    R.S.B
  21. pbluv's Avatar
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    I still think developers should be required to state the permissions required in the description on AppWorld. If you don't mind, then go ahead and install, but TELL ME UPFRONT.

    If they're not doing anything nefarious, then they shouldn't have a problem explaining why they need access to whatever.
  22. suzicat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F2 View Post
    NOT if the app does not even appear there!!!!! UNinstalled, REinstalled, restarted, rebooted, UN and RE again about 3 times. The Permissions for that app does not appear.
    In that case, I would say bye bye to that app permamently. Forget that crap.
  23. Techno-Emigre's Avatar
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    I appreciate developers contributing to this conversation. I can see legitimate reasons for wanting access to my info. Yet we all know, there are those who are either careless or downright malicious with data. At the least I don't want to be spammed, and I am bound by professional mandates to protect my data. There are also those whose safety and freedom depend on data privacy. Look at Arab Spring, for example.

    I believe this is a critical conversation which needs to be ongoing. What probably needs to happen is some refinement in what can be accessed so that developers can do a good job. It shouldn't be all or nothing. Some middle choice where I can grant an app only what it really needs and leave the rest of my data out of the conversation. I am not a developer, so would be really interested in what they think about this. We sure don't want to put stumbling blocks in the path of developers. Yet, BlackBerry's middle name is Security. That is what brought me to BB in the first place. I feel I need to be more educated, and turn this over to those with specialized knowledge.
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  24. Zildjian71's Avatar
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    OK now it gets even more interesting. I just downloaded Resolution Diary, another CB featured PlayBook app. I've started to check the support contact info to know who or what kind developer it is. In this case the dev listed support@santosa.org as his contact info. Well a .org domain is reserved for not for profit organizations and typically not registered to individuals and not used as a mailbox landing point. Then the full domain name of santosa.org doesn't even exist on the Internet!

    How can an app get approved with a fake point of contact? Does anyone check these people out?

    Information collection and fake addresses being allowed to pass shows a great lax on the part of RIM. Apple maybe, Google, its a given but Research In Motion, not acceptable.
    .
    To resist the influence of others the knowledge of oneself is of most importance.

    Teal'c on Stargate SG-1 Season 9 Episode 14
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    Information Technology is fun, play with IT!
  25. SparkyBC's Avatar
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    Anyone can buy and register a .org name. Just because the actual URL is 404 not found does not mean there is no mail server setup under that domain..
    pcguy514 and numbersboy like this.
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