[bearclawcoffee]

I was just looking at the reviews and noticed an odd one for Canada: "Works well in Toronto. I went to Calgary hiking over the weekend and the app helped me a lot!"

For those who don't know their Canadian Geography, they are very far apart. It was also odd since there was a 1 star and a 2 star and this was 5 star. I went and checked the other apps with 5 stars and appearently "kozen" loves the app since he has downloaded 4 versions and gave all 4 a 5 star rating. He also travels a lot! (just look for the ones with high ratings).

Hope RIM bans them!

Looks like "Kozen" has been "hiking" in DC - Germany - Bangkok.
wait what? is there great hiking in DC?

[JuliaLast]

needed a map for the uk I had google etc but slow on gprs and not much beter on 3g. So downloaded this bit of crap you cannot plan or calculate a root or anything the only thing this is good for is to tell you where you are. I agree with all on this forum that Blackberry should remove this map from skylab. I paid �9.99 i put a review on the site and it went on, but checked an hour later and it had gone. it now still shows 5 star, I am absalutly livid.

[Huot]

JuliaLast

email and CC:

[email protected]
[email protected]

Let them know how you feel, mention the forums of ticked off people and ask for a refund. They should be able to comply. Just be polite(ish) to them, the person reading the email is a person too

[JuliaLast]

I wish I had soon this forum before I paid �9.99 for a uk map which is only good for finding where you are and not having to download map, there is no plan a trip or find a street or town. I loged a bad review and seen it app world but after a short time it went a went back to 5 star review. absalutley crap.

[anthogag]

I bought the Toronto map and so far I like it. It has a lot of detail. I'm not in Toronto right now but when I get back there in a few weeks I hope it works well tracking me on the map with GPS:roll eyes:

If you want to get directions and plan a route get another app like Magellan, this one has been quite good so far.

[nickbohannon]

Hi Guys
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted here. I am in UK and nearly bought this UK map app for 9.99p. I noticed this forum and changed my mind. The thing that made me consider the app was the 5 stars. It was only reading this that made me realise that the stars might be misleading. So thanks for saving me 9.99p
http://images.crackberry.com/forum_i...lies/smile.gif

[domo325]

Sorry for bumping up this thread, but why is RIM allowing Skylab to pump out these useless GPS maps for $9.99? I just checked App World and it looks like RIM gave Skylab the green light to release more than 25 of these apps for different countries around the world.

[irsan]

buy with paypal then dispute them

[Morten]

yeah sent link
Reply from RIM: Please contact the vendor to resolve this issue

me:WTF

That only shows how little RIM cares about the customers - and the quality of apps...

Also - the statement on AppWorld "All sales are final" look a little Scam'ish to me.

IF RIM really wanted quality apps as opposed to number of apps- they would interest themselves a little bit more in the process.

[smuook]

I will admit to asking for a few 1/2 star reviews to be denied. I am open to honest criticism. Do you think I was justified in removing the following reviews?
1. IOS "rules" for astronomy apps and my app "sucks"
2.App is "unreadable" and cannot be read in the daylight (but app is designed for night viewing)
3. App is not "point and view" (but I can't access the compass due to lack of an API)

I truly good app will come out with good reviews in the aggregate. What your are doing is censoring your customers because their review is inconvenient for you. I assume they are paying customers as well. I guess we should just assume that all your censoring was always righteous and just... and your users are just hateful and mean to you. This demonstrates to me that many developers may have programming skills... but many severely lack marketing, business, and customer service skills. It is such a shame that App World is in such a state that they have to beg for developers and cater to them... at the expense of the the user. Sad.

[jamesbondOO7]

BlackBerry have refunded me no question asked after I complained about the Portugal app I had purchased half an hour before (totally useless app I paid 9.99 euros for).

[FF22]

BlackBerry have refunded me no question asked after I complained about the Portugal app I had purchased half an hour before (totally useless app I paid 9.99 euros for).

Would you mind expending a bit more "capital" on this app and explain what it did or did not do?

I've got France-on-device but since it was only 99 Cents when I purchased it, I don't feel as bad as some folks who spent $9.99 on various versions.

What I've been unable to determine is what is being stored on the pb and what comes down as data "later on." That is, at least, in the "app" I purchased, I can zoom in on, say Paris and it seems to grab more and more tiles. I was also able to use the "locate me" icon and it zipped across the Atlantic and across the US and located me. At that point, I was able to download maps of my area and pan around and grab more maps. The other day, I panned down to LA and grabbed more maps, at which point I probably exceeded its buffer and it imploded (closed down).

I think it left the gps in an ON state as my battery power was sinking really fast but I don't know that for sure. I did Restart and battery returned to normal.

But I'm looking for other impressions that we can share around.

I also will note that I got notice of another update and its size has about doubled from 400megs to 800megs. So far I have resisted downloading the update.

[RedEnsign]

After I bought GPS Monitor I ended up emailing them numerous times before they admitted that the app does not work as advertised in PlayBook. Yes I know it's only $2.99 but I still demanded my money back! No response to THAT email!

Ditto, my HORRIBLE review being removed; I thought companies couldn't do that arbitrarily?!

There MUST be a way to give feedback to RIM about FRAUDULANT Chinese CRAP-APPS like this being dumped on the PlayBook App site! Bad enough that developer-type folks haven't jumped on the BB and PB App bandwagon; but garbage like this does not help the situation.

[ALToronto]

After I bought GPS Monitor I ended up emailing them numerous times before they admitted that the app does not work as advertised in PlayBook. Yes I know it's only $2.99 but I still demanded my money back! No response to THAT email!

Ditto, my HORRIBLE review being removed; I thought companies couldn't do that arbitrarily?!

There MUST be a way to give feedback to RIM about FRAUDULANT Chinese CRAP-APPS like this being dumped on the PlayBook App site! Bad enough that developer-type folks haven't jumped on the BB and PB App bandwagon; but garbage like this does not help the situation.

Join the Blackberry Beta Zone forum; RIM employees monitor those posts regularly. Nothing gets done immediately, but at least it gets noticed.

https://beta.webapps.blackberry.com/...ct=index&item=

[BuzzStarField]

After I bought GPS Monitor I ended up emailing them numerous times before they admitted that the app does not work as advertised in PlayBook. Yes I know it's only $2.99 but I still demanded my money back! No response to THAT email!

Ditto, my HORRIBLE review being removed; I thought companies couldn't do that arbitrarily?!

There MUST be a way to give feedback to RIM about FRAUDULANT Chinese CRAP-APPS like this being dumped on the PlayBook App site! Bad enough that developer-type folks haven't jumped on the BB and PB App bandwagon; but garbage like this does not help the situation.

There is, in fact, a way to give feedback (and I hope that everyone affected takes advantage of the opportunity). Some people have actually been successful in getting a refund. See the post by jamesbondOO7 above for one such success story.

I fully understand your outrage that your attempt to warn other consumers about your experience was so easily negated by this particular developer.

As I said in a previous post in this very thread, the vast majority of us would like to put and end to the abuse because it reflects badly on all of us. However, I believe that there are times when we have to protect ourselves from the rare consumer who posts unwarranted nasty reviews. Here is what smuook said when I admitted to removing three reviews that were posted for What's up shortly after it was released last June:

"This demonstrates to me that many developers may have programming skills... but many severely lack marketing, business, and customer service skills. It is such a shame that App World is in such a state that they have to beg for developers and cater to them... at the expense of the the user. Sad."

From my own perspective, I would love to be in total control of managing my relationship with my customers. But right now RIM stands in the middle and makes a meaningful dialog quite impossible. It's frustrating because we feel as helpless as you do when trying to remove bad-apple vendors from App World.

In conclusion, I implore anyone who has been affected shoddy practices to send an email to RIM and express your frustration.

[peter9477]

Totally agree with BuzzStarField on all this, but note that RedEnsign did include the qualification "arbitrarily".

As a developer, I'd have no serious problem if I lost the ability to "arbitrarily" remove reviews, though I believe that should only happen if I also gain some abilities I don't currently have. I'd need the ability to tell RIM why I believe a review is bogus, and possibly a way of including a "developer response" that would be shown with the review, in case RIM rejected my request to deny it. Being able to contact the reviewer would be good as well, and they would definitely need the ability to modify their reviews and ratings if, for example, an upgrade improved things or my response addressed their problem.

The only reviews I've removed have been half-star reviews which made claims that my app was responsible for various failures of the purchasers' PlayBooks, or that it didn't work (but with no description of the problem).

One person said in effect "works perfectly except keeps my PlayBook in standby". He emailed me with the same report, and when I replied to explain how to properly swipe it out of standby, he never replied. I denied that one, as BG is not and cannot be responsible.

Another said "doesn't collect data or keep the device awake; de-installed". Well, I guarantee it does, and he's doing it wrong... denied.

Another said "how to view the export report of cvs file?" Well, sorry, but that's simply not a review, and giving me 2.5 stars with it sucks. Denied. The 2-3 people who've emailed me with that as a proper support request have received very prompt and detailed replies.

I left in the brilliantly worded "must be a free app" 2-star review, titled "not great". Legit review, no need to deny, even though more detail would actually help me improve it. (I'm actually pretty sure that was from a friend around here who disagreed with something I wrote, but whatever.)

I also left a 2.5 star review that claims the phone apps are "miles ahead". Can't argue with that: they've got better APIs to work with for now.

All 18 of my other reviews are 5-star reviews, so I can't really complain. (Guess I'm doing something right! And thanks to those who've reviewed Battery Guru!)

Anyway, taking away the ability to deny some reviews would cripple legitimate developers, so I really hope that doesn't happen. Right now, the best thing RIM could do would be to start managing their ecosystem better, recognizing that certain vendors are making a very bad name for everyone, and that it's an overall negative to let them continue with their current practices of denying all bad reviews, ignoring support requests, lying about what their products do, and flooding the store with bogus "bulk" apps. Fix those simple things, which can't be that hard (except for the omnipresent lawyers who are probably whispering in RIM's ear about the bad stuff that could happen if they do), and many of these problems will be gone.

[BuzzStarField]

@peter9477
I may be wrong, but the App World approval process seems to deny approval only in cases where there a clear copyright infringement (usually involving usage of RIM's trademarks) or attempts to encroach on RIM's monopoly on browsers and such. RIM is currently completely silent on any of the issues raised in the last paragraph of your post.

It seems to me that publishing some minimum standards intended to improve the app ecosystem and imposing those standards at time of approval would eliminate any chance of legal repercussions. There would need to be a workable appeal process as well.
Vendors who currently contravene the standards could be given sufficient time to comply.

I think that Apple has had an enforceable style guide for quite some time. I think they have gone much, much too far with their approach but that doesn't mean that the idea behind it is wrong. What are your thoughts?

[jamesbondOO7]

Would you mind expending a bit more "capital" on this app and explain what it did or did not do?

.

Incredibly slow, very little details available on the map, could not find my location. 100% useless.

[FF22]

Incredibly slow, very little details available on the map, could not find my location. 100% useless.

Well, with the version of France I have, I can zoom in either double-tapping or pinch/zoom. And it does find me all the way over on the west coast of the US even though the map is France. So I can get down to the street level in Paris - found the apartment block we stayed at when over there. But it lacks search features and the price is definitely steep. At 99 Cents, it was not bad.

[BuzzStarField]

Well, with the version of France I have, I can zoom in either double-tapping or pinch/zoom. And it does find me all the way over on the west coast of the US even though the map is France. So I can get down to the street level in Paris - found the apartment block we stayed at when over there. But it lacks search features and the price is definitely steep. At 99 Cents, it was not bad.

Is there any noticeable improvement in performance because of the pre-downloaded map data?

[peter9477]

Has anyone checked where those "offline" maps are actually getting their data from? As in, what specific servers? One way to check that, if you know of no other, could be to enable the logging feature of your router and examine what sites are hit. Another, for the more technical, would be to use a traffic sniffer (e.g. tcpdump or wireshark), and that would help because we'd also learn the User-Agent string they're using.

The terms of use for the OpenStreetMap servers actually don't allow for an app like this to be retrieving data directly from them. If they are, it could be reported and they might be shut down. (Knowing the user-agent string would be required for that, likely.)

Yes, that would effectively disable all instances of the app out there, at least until the vendor made arrangements to use a server they're actually permitted to use. I think in such a case, however, it might be even easier for RIM to grant refunds to anyone who had purchased.

It's remotely possible they're using a legitimate server, or set up their own, but I'd judge it extremely unlikely based on everything I've heard so far.

[FF22]

Is there any noticeable improvement in performance because of the pre-downloaded map data?

I can't really tell since I don't know what I'm comparing with. In other words, GoogleMaps does not work on my device. But France is there. And by zooming, I can aim for Paris and get details pretty fast.

Same with home neighborhood - it is already drawn when I tap what I'll call the "locate me" button (gps, I'd gather).

The last couple of times I tried zooming in on LA, it imploded (like the native browser). I have a feeling that I exceeded its cache - does have a clear cache option.

They have a link in the lower right to OpenStreetMaps. I don't know much more about it then that.

I am still trying to determine what the newest update would accomplish as it has gone from 430mb to 930mb. The last load of 432mb took quite a while so I'm not rushing to upgrade.

[BuzzStarField]

I can't really tell since I don't know what I'm comparing with. In other words, GoogleMaps does not work on my device. But France is there. And by zooming, I can aim for Paris and get details pretty fast.

Same with home neighborhood - it is already drawn when I tap what I'll call the "locate me" button (gps, I'd gather).

The last couple of times I tried zooming in on LA, it imploded (like the native browser). I have a feeling that I exceeded its cache - does have a clear cache option.

They have a link in the lower right to OpenStreetMaps. I don't know much more about it then that.

I am still trying to determine what the newest update would accomplish as it has gone from 430mb to 930mb. The last load of 432mb took quite a while so I'm not rushing to upgrade.

Thanks F2. I am using used cached OpenStreetMap tiles on my 9700. I created an atlas for Toronto (not the Greater Toronto Area) at zoom levels 16 and 17. The file size of the map data for this relatively limited area is about 177mb. Zoom level 18 would have quadrupled the storage space of the data (which would have exhausted space on my sd card and then some).

So in the case of all of France, I would guess that your downloaded data in your current version of this app s probably just the very lowest zoom levels while the new version probably includes some additional tiles at higher zoom levels, I would guess for selected urban areas.

The point being that, while you have lower zoom levels already on-board, you will still be hitting the servers when you zoom in to look at detailed maps. Depending on how much of this additional data is downloaded and how much you move about (replacing cached data as you go), the caching scheme may or may not be more efficient than not caching anything at all. If you are in an automobile, you would need an open connection to the internet for the app to continue receiving the tiles it needs to display the current position.

I personally think that the developer's use of the terms "GPS" and "on-device maps" are gimmicks to attract the unwary. With no directions, local search and other features of a full-featured navigation system, these apps certainly are not anything special.

The only way to verify my suspicion that the caching scheme is seriously flawed is to do a thorough analysis along the lines that peter9477 is recommending. But even here, the lack of any clear evidence that there is a significant performance improvement makes purchasing a copy just to test my theory out of the question.

[D_Whatley]

Thanks for all the comments. I wrote and asked about tbe range of the Atlanta data and never got a response. I noticed changing star points and now understand why.

[moa999]

With OS2 we will get MapDroyd which I understand uses the same sources... and is much sweeter. already works with the Playbook GPS..

and its FREE