[mjs416]

Cheap and overpriced?... uh?

Short lifespan??? They care for the devices and update the software constantly. Who does that? Even for years. The iPhone 1 was released 2007. It was up to date until 2010.

In the electronics industry - offering support for something (software or firmware) for 3 years isnt that long. I recall Microsoft NT was released in the early 90's and saw support until the early 00's - XP (released in 01) is still supported.

[kbz1960]

256MB was fine when the iPad 1 was released, and actually, my wife's iPad 1 still runs great even under iOS 4 with multitasking.

As far as specs -- be careful about what you write. Take some time to educate yourself with facts. Every solid benchmark you will find nowadays has the iPad 2 trouncing the PlayBook. In terms of memory, when you take out the amount of memory consumed by boot up, and then factor in memory footprint of apps, the iPad 2 actually has more real world memory than the PlayBook. Finally, the iPad 2 has a newer generation graphics processor that is capable of OpenGL software technologies the PlayBook's GPU will never be able to take advantage of. It's not all about raw specs -- its how the hardware is leveraged by the OS and apps, and how the specs pan out in the real world.

I'd be surprised if your 8 year old laptop could beat the iPad 2 across the board (an 8 year old PC is archaic even by mobile standards today). My iPad 2 actually loads some websites as fast as my 1 year old laptop. In many ways, ARM hardware is faster than traditional PC hardware all while running with lighter overhead. Look at some of the advanced OpenGL games on iOS and Android right now, and they easily outclass similar PC/console gaming technology of 8 years ago.

You can tell that to the android fans in the phone section also as some think it's all about specs.

[Kerms]

You can tell that to the android fans in the phone section also as some think it's all about specs.

dfg912 is right it isn't always about specs, it should be about optimization. Vista came out and you could have what should be a nice sped'd machine and it would still run like a dog because the OS wasn't very optimized and buggy.

Spec's are nice but you need the optimization to go with it

[kbz1960]

Amen to that one, specs and crap OS makes your specs crap.

[kb5zht]

256MB was fine when the iPad 1 was released, and actually, my wife's iPad 1 still runs great even under iOS 4 with multitasking.

As far as specs -- be careful about what you write. Take some time to educate yourself with facts. Every solid benchmark you will find nowadays has the iPad 2 trouncing the PlayBook. In terms of memory, when you take out the amount of memory consumed by boot up, and then factor in memory footprint of apps, the iPad 2 actually has more real world memory than the PlayBook. Finally, the iPad 2 has a newer generation graphics processor that is capable of OpenGL software technologies the PlayBook's GPU will never be able to take advantage of. It's not all about raw specs -- its how the hardware is leveraged by the OS and apps, and how the specs pan out in the real world.

I'd be surprised if your 8 year old laptop could beat the iPad 2 across the board (an 8 year old PC is archaic even by mobile standards today). My iPad 2 actually loads some websites as fast as my 1 year old laptop. In many ways, ARM hardware is faster than traditional PC hardware all while running with lighter overhead. Look at some of the advanced OpenGL games on iOS and Android right now, and they easily outclass similar PC/console gaming technology of 8 years ago.

Anybody else here feeling the bias? lol

The processor in the playbook outperformed every other dual core gig processor in all tablets, yes ipad2 included.

By the way, does the ipad2 run flash better-

....Oooops. My bad.

Ah yes; im sure the preprogrammed response will be "i dont care about flash."

Well that was easy.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[kbz1960]

Anybody else here feeling the bias? lol

The processor in the playbook outperformed every other dual core gig processor in all tablets, yes ipad2 included.

By the way, does the ipad2 run flash better-

....Oooops. My bad.

Ah yes; im sure the preprogrammed response will be "i dont care about flash."

Well that was easy.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You're probably right but still the fact is that specs aren't everything.

[TheMarco]

I have a TouchPad and a PlayBook now. I think both are very nice but at the same time both are failing in certain departments. The PlayBook has much nicer hardware (both build quality and extras like a back camera and a GPS unit) but the TouchPad has (at this point) some more useful software.

'on paper' however, both these tablets are still lacking compared to the iPad even though I absolutely hate to say it.

I think my ideal tablet would be what would come out if the PlayBook and TouchPad had a baby.

RIM has a huge opportunity in making the PlayBook stand out if only they'd release the damn PIM apps, the Android player and get some other essentials out.

I love both my PB and TP but it hurts me to see that both still have some gaping holes in their featuresets.

[TheMarco]

I have a TouchPad and a PlayBook now. I think both are very nice but at the same time both are failing in certain departments. The PlayBook has much nicer hardware (both build quality and extras like a back camera and a GPS unit) but the TouchPad has (at this point) some more useful software.

'on paper' however, both these tablets are still lacking compared to the iPad even though I absolutely hate to say it.

I think my ideal tablet would be what would come out if the PlayBook and TouchPad had a baby.

RIM has a huge opportunity in making the PlayBook stand out if only they'd release the damn PIM apps, the Android player and get some other essentials out.

I love both my PB and TP but it hurts me to see that both still have some gaping holes in their featuresets.

[jthep]

I honestly have no faith in these tech critics anymore. They all seem to be shills for Apple and fail to recognize the practical uses for devices and what matters a lot and what hardly matters at all.

Take the PB reviews. They stressed no native email on a WiFi only device as some huge insurmountable flaw? They knew about this 6 months before it ever came out, but acted shocked? A WiFi only device will not be able to access internet outside of a WiFi area, so how is native email some huge deal for such a device? It isn't! Try using your native email on a WiFi only iPad! But they don't apply logic or practicality to their reviews.

Or I saw some critics stress for a full minute how they hated the power button? Really?

So it got generally bad reviews for nitpicking minor things that hardly matter. But legitimate gripes like Netflix and Hulu being blocked were completely ignored and left out, almost as if these critics didn't even use the device?

The criticism on lack of apps was somewhat fair since it was a new device with a new OS, so you have to expect any all new platforms to suffer from this. But being it runs flash sites, not having an app, isn't anywhere as relevant as it would be for tablets that don't run flash.

The best feature PB has, Bridge for BB users, circumvents the need for a 3G model or to pay an expensive tethering/hotspot monthly bill by sharing the BB data plan. It also neutralizes the lack of native email by getting all your BB info on there. Its not like BB is an obscure platform, it has 50 million users! Brilliant, great coup for the consumer, bad for the carrier, but the crritcs just pointed out that it only works on BB's? Well iTunes only work on iOS devices, does that mean its no good? A good exclusive feature, is still good feature!

So I am not sure how flawed the new HP tablet really is. If it has a way to easily circumvent expensive monthly data plans or extra fees for tethering/hotspot features, then it deserves a positive review just for that alone! But critics won't bring that up, they will just say the iPad has more apps, even though flash enabled devices can run the REAL sites!!!

I just think a lot of these new tablets are getting a lot of unfair criticism for not being the iPad, when they are just as good for practical purposes. No apps, doesn't matter when you can run all the real websites even with flash...

Tech critics need a lesson in logic, practicality, and prioritize what features are important.

[jthep]

Also one other point, the critics gloss over in this HP Touchpad review, it appears that Palm devices using WebOs have some sort of added functionality sort of like Bridge on Playbook.

Do they focus on or explain to a possible buyer a potential great feature? Nope, they tell you how they don't like fingerprints showing on the back of it? Fire all these "critics". They just don't know what they are doing and are failures...

[Economist101]

So it got generally bad reviews for nitpicking minor things that hardly matter. But legitimate gripes like Netflix and Hulu being blocked were completely ignored and left out, almost as if these critics didn't even use the device?.

So I am not sure how flawed the new HP tablet really is. If it has a way to easily circumvent expensive monthly data plans or extra fees for tethering/hotspot features, then it deserves a positive review just for that alone! But critics won't bring that up, they will just say the iPad has more apps, even though flash enabled devices can run the REAL sites!!!

I don't think being able to run the "real sites'" matters if the site owner blocks your device. Flash or not, iPads have been able to stream Netflix since day one, and have supported Hulu Plus as well. So while the PlayBook certainly has a more capable browser, the iPad is the more capable device when we're considering Hulu and Netflix. If RIM wants to sell more devices, it needs to win these content battles.

[jthep]

Thats a fair point, but all the critics that reviewed the PB at launch completely left out Netflix and Hulu were blocked. Those are very relevant criticisms.

They instead complained about not liking a power button or no native email on a WiFi only device? Not having Netflix is a bigger flaw than those two non-issues, IMHO. But they didn't mention it, so I am lead to believe they didn't spend more than 2 minutes playing around with the PB. They let their obvious iPad bias make their decision before learning about the PB and what it can do and what it currently cannot.

I am just saying the people reviewing these tablets tend to nitpick on things that hardly matter at all and overlook both positive and negative things that do matter.

Example- PB is a WiFi only device with no native email, yet BB can not only bridge their emails and enable all sites, but use a flash enabled browser without purchasing an additional data plan! Thats a consumer coup that the critics should be clamoring for, not bashing!

I dunno, I would say the tradeoff, is PB having a huge edge over other tablets just with the free bridge browser. Do critics bring this very relevant point up? Hardly at all, they instead complain that only BB users only benefit? Ummm... hello, BB is not some underground device with small market share, its well established with 50 million users!

So would you complain that only Netflix subscribers benefit from a Netflix app? Of course not, its a great feature.

Or that its unfair only iPads use iTunes, no, again great feature.

But Playbooks use Bridge with a potential user base of 50 million BB users and THATS a flaw?

Sorry, these "critics" have no objectivity.

So that being said, even though the WebOS OS is not as widespread as BB OS's, being that there are far less Palm users than BB users, what exactly does the extra functionality between WebOS devices do? From early reviews, I really cannot tell as of now, which just points to the reviewer failing at his job.

Does anyone really care that your fingerprints will show on a tablet? What matters more to say a Palm user, fingerprints on touch devices or learning about potential added features of using your particular phone with this impressive looking tablet?

[Mr Bigs]

i checked it out this morning at bestbuy and i honestly dont like it at all.its bulky,heavy,buggy,no back camera,the speakers is not loud at all and most of all the screen clarity is not what i expected(not even close to our PB).

I call B.S !!! This tablet has the best speakers on the market and all those issues you stated the PB still has them.

[kbz1960]

I don't think being able to run the "real sites'" matters if the site owner blocks your device. Flash or not, iPads have been able to stream Netflix since day one, and have supported Hulu Plus as well. So while the PlayBook certainly has a more capable browser, the iPad is the more capable device when we're considering Hulu and Netflix. If RIM wants to sell more devices, it needs to win these content battles.

If RIM would like their users to have this access they need to pay the piper like Jobs did. Money talks.

[s219]

The processor in the playbook outperformed every other dual core gig processor in all tablets, yes ipad2 included.

How about showing some data to support your claim? Most common benchmarks cannot even be compiled on the PlayBook right now, since there is no native NDK. So you may want to rethink what you're saying.

Let me save you some time -- here and here are some examples that counter your claim.

[sookster54]

I went to Future Shop yesterday and came across the Touchpad, not very impressive at all, the UI was laggy to begin with.

[esqlaw]

256MB was fine when the iPad 1 was released, and actually, my wife's iPad 1 still runs great even under iOS 4 with multitasking.

As far as specs -- be careful about what you write. Take some time to educate yourself with facts. Every solid benchmark you will find nowadays has the iPad 2 trouncing the PlayBook. In terms of memory, when you take out the amount of memory consumed by boot up, and then factor in memory footprint of apps, the iPad 2 actually has more real world memory than the PlayBook. Finally, the iPad 2 has a newer generation graphics processor that is capable of OpenGL software technologies the PlayBook's GPU will never be able to take advantage of. It's not all about raw specs -- its how the hardware is leveraged by the OS and apps, and how the specs pan out in the real world.

I'd be surprised if your 8 year old laptop could beat the iPad 2 across the board (an 8 year old PC is archaic even by mobile standards today). My iPad 2 actually loads some websites as fast as my 1 year old laptop. In many ways, ARM hardware is faster than traditional PC hardware all while running with lighter overhead. Look at some of the advanced OpenGL games on iOS and Android right now, and they easily outclass similar PC/console gaming technology of 8 years ago.

It has less memory than my old laptop... thats freakin' sad. And nothing changes the fact that Ipad1/2 will be pieces of sluggish bile compared to the ipad3 and the ipad4 and the ipad5(coming out next summer). That is apple's business strategy... milk customers every year for slight upgrades.

You clearly don't know tech as well as you do because my laptop did out perform an ipad 2... across the board. It ran spec heavy games of its time at high fps like fear. Fear was a game that people benchmarked by and it ran it smoothly. I know the ipad2 can't deliver that or an experience akin to it. Surprised? You should be. You said you would be. Believe it or not, mobile tech has gone backwards and hasn't progressed due to companies like Apple that sell substandard products - and stupid consumers buying it up like candy.

The cheaper they could produce their rubbish, the more profits they make. They have no reason to build better units except to milk consumers. And before you say that its justified, I agree. As a business decision, it makes sense. As a consumer, I will not stand for that kind've BS. I'd rather put $$ into products that aren't going to be replicated and resold every year.

[KAPS]

It has less memory than my old laptop... thats freakin' sad. And nothing changes the fact that Ipad1/2 will be pieces of sluggish bile compared to the ipad3 and the ipad4 and the ipad5(coming out next summer). That is apple's business strategy... milk customers every year for slight upgrades.

You clearly don't know tech as well as you do because my laptop did out perform an ipad 2... across the board. It ran spec heavy games of its time at high fps like fear. Fear was a game that people benchmarked by and it ran it smoothly. I know the ipad2 can't deliver that or an experience akin to it. Surprised? You should be. You said you would be. Believe it or not, mobile tech has gone backwards and hasn't progressed due to companies like Apple that sell substandard products - and stupid consumers buying it up like candy.

The cheaper they could produce their rubbish, the more profits they make. They have no reason to build better units except to milk consumers. And before you say that its justified, I agree. As a business decision, it makes sense. As a consumer, I will not stand for that kind've BS. I'd rather put $$ into products that aren't going to be replicated and resold every year.

You seems to forget your beloved RIM does the same thing with their phones, a slight upgrade in hardware specs and they sell the same type of phones for higher price.

[Economist101]

That is apple's business strategy... milk customers every year for slight upgrades.

That's every company's business strategy, even RIM's. You can't make significant tech leaps while holding prices steady and maintaining growth.

[pkcable]

Moved to Web OS Forum

[s219]

It has less memory than my old laptop... thats freakin' sad. And nothing changes the fact that Ipad1/2 will be pieces of sluggish bile compared to the ipad3 and the ipad4 and the ipad5(coming out next summer). That is apple's business strategy... milk customers every year for slight upgrades.

You clearly don't know tech as well as you do because my laptop did out perform an ipad 2... across the board. It ran spec heavy games of its time at high fps like fear. Fear was a game that people benchmarked by and it ran it smoothly. I know the ipad2 can't deliver that or an experience akin to it. Surprised? You should be. You said you would be. Believe it or not, mobile tech has gone backwards and hasn't progressed due to companies like Apple that sell substandard products - and stupid consumers buying it up like candy.

The cheaper they could produce their rubbish, the more profits they make. They have no reason to build better units except to milk consumers. And before you say that its justified, I agree. As a business decision, it makes sense. As a consumer, I will not stand for that kind've BS. I'd rather put $$ into products that aren't going to be replicated and resold every year.

How about dropping the attitude. If you despise Apple and its customers, fine, but I don't need to hear that poisonous off-topic rant and it's obviously obscuring your ability to perceive technology.

I program OpenGL quite a bit, so I am quite versed on the topic. I can tell you that the current state of the art OpenGL games on the iPad are way beyond what we had on PCs and game consoles of 8 years ago. Go take a look at Infinity Blade if you don't believe me:

http://www.epicgames.com/infinityblade/

[kbz1960]

OK, who is going to be the first to take their ball and go home?

I wish all fans could quit with the my dog is better than your dog and just accept that there are different strokes for different folks.

At any rate, we will see how well WebOS fairs moving forward.

[esqlaw]

OK, who is going to be the first to take their ball and go home?

I wish all fans could quit with the my dog is better than your dog and just accept that there are different strokes for different folks.

At any rate, we will see how well WebOS fairs moving forward.

Touchpad actually looks nice compared to ipad2. I saw a side by side demonstration. WebOS looked like it ran well. WebOS, like the PB browser, display websites the way they should look. So I think if I ever wanted a larger tablet I'd check out the touchpad because it seems like a better fit, knowing that I love my PB.

And like I said, ipad sucks.

get over it apple fanatics.

[pkcable]

No personal attacks! I have a mod stick don't make me use it!