[Phone Guy 4567]

Exactly.

MS did the same thing with Windows Mobile, the difference being MS has other sources of income and Nokia did not. Other them mobile Nokia only had the Networks joint venture with Siemens which up until recently was losing money.

Nokia made its money as a cell phone manufacturer not a smartphone manufacturer, at its peak the majority of the phones it sold were feature phones not smartphones. It wasn't until the iPhone that smartphones gained popularity with the general public.

[Traxxmy]

Exactly.

MS did the same thing with Windows Mobile, the difference being MS has other sources of income and Nokia did not. Other them mobile Nokia only had the Networks joint venture with Siemens which up until recently was losing money.

Nokia made its money as a cell phone manufacturer not a smartphone manufacturer, at its peak the majority of the phones it sold were feature phones not smartphones. It wasn't until the iPhone that smartphones gained popularity with the general public.

So those worldwide popular N series is not smartphone and only iphone can create smartphone. You must be another guy from USA as those there always living in their own world. Example westlife is popular worldwide yet not is USA just because radio station there won't play their songs.

Symbian is still and always my favourite Os. Nokia 808. FilePLAY Music Player

[Phone Guy 4567]

LOL

I never said iPhone was the first smartphone or that the N series weren't smartphones. I said that it wasn't until the iPhone that smartphones gained popularity with the general public. Up until the iPhone smartphones were a niche market used by businesses or tech geeks. The vast majority of phones were flip phones or candy bar phones, this is where Nokia made the majority of their sales.

[Carrtman]

I would say Nokia had better build quality then what was available from other manufactures at the time, but what was available from other manufactures was a easy target to beat. I remember slider phones became loose and would wobble, and the all metal E61 had a plastic joystick that always felt to me like it could break off at anytime.

Nokia should have known Symbian was a dead end far sooner then they did, when Sony Ericsson dumped it and their Quartz UI. Yet Nokia continued with Symbian and S60 and all this happened way before Elop arrived. Going Android hasn't helped Sony in mobile IMO

Sony has two problems:
1. Availability
2. They don't get it << well made powerful phones but they lack a removable battery and physical buttons

Personally I just ordered myself a Nokia best phone brand ever, bring comes close to the quality. Elop would have never been seen in the same light as Jobs because he didn't create Nokia and Jobs is one of the founders of Apple. Elop was inserted to run down Nokia and legally preventing them from going Android in other words hired as a spy with tons of authority

[archieAPC Z10]

Their era is done already and Microsoft acquiring them is the boldest solution to salvage the falling phones of Nokia. Also at the same time, Microsoft will have their own smartphone branding like their greatest competitor Apple.

APC via Z10

[TooSquare]

Their era is done already and Microsoft acquiring them is the boldest solution to salvage the falling phones of Nokia. Also at the same time, Microsoft will have their own smartphone branding like their greatest competitor Apple.

APC via Z10

With Elop on the helm during the sale I don't think Nokia got the best deal, they probably just market themselves to Microsoft and no one else.

My suspicion is the Nokia acquisition was all engineered beginning with Elop joining Microsoft and he made sure the Nokia stock was low enough for Microsoft.

Posted via CB10

[Carrtman]

With Elop on the helm during the sale I don't think Nokia got the best deal, they probably just market themselves to Microsoft and no one else.

My suspicion is the Nokia acquisition was all engineered beginning with Elop joining Microsoft and he made sure the Nokia stock was low enough for Microsoft.

Posted via CB10

Exactly I've held on to my last Nokia (9360) for almost 6 years! So happy I've found another one

Can't believe there are no anti trust lawsuits over this. Ms may have their own brand now but it's not doing well because we'll the or is too complicated and hardly customizable. I'm willing to bet if Nokia doesn't outsource their production and went with Android they'd be a top manufacturer right now.

A perfectly built Nokia phone with pkb running Android? Shut up and take my money!

I really don't see how much more obvious a serious fraud can look...

[anon8656116]

With Elop on the helm during the sale I don't think Nokia got the best deal, they probably just market themselves to Microsoft and no one else.

My suspicion is the Nokia acquisition was all engineered beginning with Elop joining Microsoft and he made sure the Nokia stock was low enough for Microsoft.

Can't believe there are no anti trust lawsuits over this. Ms may have their own brand now but it's not doing well because we'll the or is too complicated and hardly customizable. I'm willing to bet if Nokia doesn't outsource their production and went with Android they'd be a top manufacturer right now.
...
I really don't see how much more obvious a serious fraud can look...

These sound like baseless accusations to me. Do you have any proof for this?

If this deal wasn't in the best interests of the company or the shareholders, the latter would not have agreed to the merger, would have intervened earlier or would have sued/reported afterwards. Also note that competition authorities like the European Commission cleared the merger in the first place.

Android was not the answer. It would have given Nokia no serious chance to establish themselves in a market where the competition is mostly based on price. Even the top manufacturer Samsung is clearly feeling that. Maybe Elop was a bit more favourable towards Windows Phone, but perhaps that is precisely the insight and out-of-the-box thinking that the shareholders wanted from a new CEO.

[Traxxmy]

Maybe Elop was a bit more favourable towards Windows Phone, but perhaps that is precisely the insight and out-of-the-box thinking that the shareholders wanted from a new CEO.

Eloped is the back up candidate for CEO. I can't remember why the first candidate rejected the post. That's why eloped get to be CEO and eloped made some decisions without informing the shareholders and some of them are not so happy for eloped style.

Symbian is still and always my favourite Os. Nokia 808. FilePLAY Music Player

[anon8656116]

Eloped is the back up candidate for CEO. I can't remember why the first candidate rejected the post. That's why eloped get to be CEO and eloped made some decisions without informing the shareholders and some of them are not so happy for eloped style.

He still became CEO, second choice or not. That 'some' shareholders were not so happy with this, is not enough. The majority agreed with the merger and didn't take any action against him. The minority could have taken legal action as well. Some people can be unhappy with this choice, but it's unfair to divulge accusations without proof and blame him for something that was well within the authority of the shareholders to prevent. I myself didn't like the thought of losing one of the last European smartphone manufacturers to the Americans. I wish it didn't happen, but that is not within the public's control as long as we allow companies to be privately owned.

[Phone Guy 4567]

Why would MS go through all that trouble and take the risk of getting caught just to get Nokia? Blackberry and HTC would have been other alternatives to Nokia. For a US based company the Nokia name would not be as important, and it didn't exactly lead to a massive explosion in market share for Windows Phone more like a bump.

[Carrtman]

Don't get me even started on that whole eu committee thing they are a joke as is the whole eu. After the first country decides to get out of this others are going to follow.

Would Nokia be a top dog in Android who knows but they for sure would not have fallen that hard. There are hundreds of articles against Elop and him being involved at all with Nokia because everyone knew the intentions behind that. Yeah, we will never be able to prove it but the optics are what they are. I mean Elop got a bonus after the acquisition like I said the optics are what they are.

I think it absolutely sucks that companies are getting bought up by the big global players.

Ms was thinking them buying Nokia would mean Windows phone getting all the Nokia buyers instead they got the wrath of a lot of Finns who went Android, Ios..

[TooSquare]

These sound like baseless accusations to me. Do you have any proof for this?

If this deal wasn't in the best interests of the company or the shareholders, the latter would not have agreed to the merger, would have intervened earlier or would have sued/reported afterwards. Also note that competition authorities like the European Commission cleared the merger in the first place.

Android was not the answer. It would have given Nokia no serious chance to establish themselves in a market where the competition is mostly based on price. Even the top manufacturer Samsung is clearly feeling that. Maybe Elop was a bit more favourable towards Windows Phone, but perhaps that is precisely the insight and out-of-the-box thinking that the shareholders wanted from a new CEO.

Of course Elop has repeatedly deny that he was a mole, else there won't be a need to discuss and debate anymore. As I said in one of my earlier posts, we can give Elop the benefit of doubt to go with Windows, but what happened after the MS acquisition is questioning our sanity if he was not a mole.

1. Elop was given a huge portfolio in Microsoft after the merger, heading the entire device operation, not only Nokia. Was he so well loved by Nokia staff that the phone division would be doomed without him? (Hint: Nokia tablet running Android after Elop...)

2. Elop was even a candidate to succeed Steve Ballmer as the CEO after returning. What had he done in the few years away from Microsoft that deserved this honor? Was he a successful CEO at Nokia?

Coming to the point of shareholders objection, by going to Windows EXCLUSIVELY on smart phones (by the way, Nokia X does not count... Why was this phone being introduced is another topic altogether), Elop already had them in his hands. Who else could they go to when the company was tanking? I would bet the major shareholders were begging Elop to close the deal with Microsoft seeing their wealth decreasing over time.

EU commission will not care how the deal was made, as long as Apple or Google is not buying Nokia, they will be ok with the deal.

We cannot compare Samsung with Nokia. Android made Samsung despite the platicky, seemingly low quality phones, whereas Nokia, by itself, was a brand with very strong followings. I am not sure about USA, but in the part of the world where I live, to many, Nokia = High quality reliable mobile phone. I would say Nokia might have more than a decent chance if they could produce E91 (physical keyboard) and N series (mixture of slab and slider) phones running Android... A popular hardware brand match with a popular OS brand.

[BigBadWulf]

Closed for review. This is apparently touch some nerves way to far.

And will remain closed. I think everyone has made their point clear. It's a shame to lose such a prominent manufacturer for now, and G_d willing one day we'll see them rise again. All this angst isn't doing anyone any good.