[BBOttawa]

EDIT- The marketshare figure is for the UK only...my bad!

I don't know if the company producing the data is reliable, but according to Kantar iOS has lost 0.7% EDIT- UK marketshare in the past year, while RIM has lost 0.6%. Android is wiping the floor gaining 16.8%.

Seems funny how everyone talks about RIM's demise while outside of the US they are holding their own, and actually losing less than Apple worldwide against the Android juggernaut. 18.1% of the EDIT-UK share is not bad considering they are in the middle of a huge OS transition and selling older phones until BB10 comes out.

Android is most-used smartphone OS in UK, overtaking Apple, data shows | Technology | guardian.co.uk

[Stewartj1]

Yep, I think companies need to keep a very close eye on Android or risk getting walloped. I hope we don't end up with only one strong player in this market - I'd rather see 3 or 4.

[Shlooky]

Apple is one manufacturer building one phone.
Android on the other hand is supported by over 6 phone manufacturers and tablet makers and so one, they are able to push dozens of phone models every few months.

Apple did not lose market share, they gained in fact, but Android gained more. Rim on the other hand lost and keeps loosing to both iPhone and Android.

[playbookster]

Apple is one manufacturer building one phone.
Android on the other hand is supported by over 6 phone manufacturers and tablet makers and so one, they are able to push dozens of phone models every few months.

Apple did not lose market share, they gained in fact, but Android gained more. Rim on the other hand lost and keeps loosing to both iPhone and Android.

No, they lost .7 and rim lost .6 that is not a gain. Though both did increase their userbase, that is something different.

[BBOttawa]

Apple did not lose market share, they gained in fact, but Android gained more. Rim on the other hand lost and keeps loosing to both iPhone and Android.

If you actually read the article and the chart at the end of it, iOS went from 29.2% to 28.5% for a loss of 0.7% in the past year worldwide, Blackberry went from 18.7% to 18.1% for a loss of 0.6%. Apple lost more marketshare than RIM despite being in a transition to a new OS. Funny how the facts sometimes get in the way of the news stories....

[kemj]

Apple is one manufacturer building one phone.
Android on the other hand is supported by over 6 phone manufacturers and tablet makers and so one, they are able to push dozens of phone models every few months.

Apple did not lose market share, they gained in fact, but Android gained more. Rim on the other hand lost and keeps loosing to both iPhone and Android.

Didn't you read that Apple lost 0.7% of worldwide market share while BlackBerry lost 0.6%?

[Economist101]

I don't know if the company producing the data is reliable, but according to Kantar iOS has lost 0.7% worldwide marketshare in the past year, while RIM has lost 0.6%. Android is wiping the floor gaining 16.8%

If you actually read the article and the chart at the end of it, iOS went from 29.2% to 28.5% for a loss of 0.7% in the past year worldwide, Blackberry went from 18.7% to 18.1% for a loss of 0.6%. Apple lost more marketshare than RIM despite being in a transition to a new OS. Funny how the facts sometimes get in the way of the news stories....

I didn't realize "worldwide" included only the US, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Australia while ignoring all of Asia, South America, Africa and Canada. If YOU had actually read the article, you'd realize this.

Update: On this news, RIMM may take another hit since the company is no longer located in this "world." You've all been warned.

[Economist101]

Didn't you read that Apple lost 0.7% of worldwide market share while BlackBerry lost 0.6%?

Where in the article did you read the word "worldwide"? (Hint: it isn't there)

Moral to the story: don't believe everything someone tells you they've read.

[BBOttawa]

I imagine it shows worldwide...but I have edited my reply so see two posts down...

[Economist101]

If you were actually an economist I would hope you would be able to read a chart and understand it. The first two rows show the worldwide marketshare, the rows after that show a breakout for CERTAIN countries, not every country in the world. This is easily discerned by reading the figures for RIM, which show that none of the countries in the list have them at or above the 18.1% worldwide figure, ergo they are stronger in the areas you have mentioned that are not in the list (Canada, Asia, South America, Africa) which we all know already.

The truth can be difficult to deal with I know, but do try.

Truth: The caption at the bottom of the table reads as follows:

"Data for installed base for UK, and market share for various countries Jan 2011/2012. Source: Kantar Worldpanel ComTech"

Not "all." Not "every." Not "worldwide." In fact, not once in the article is "worldwide" share even mentioned.

The truth has set you free.

[Admorris]

Where in the article did you read the word "worldwide"? (Hint: it isn't there)

In the giant lettering the OP named this thread.

[BBOttawa]

Sorry, edited my post after reading economist's reply, here's my thinking on it:

If that is the case then the numbers are completely wrong all around, as it has RIM at 18.1% for the total, but none of the sub countries have RIM at anywhere near that #. Ergo I assume the top row is the worldwide figure, as the company is called Kantar Worldpanel. Bad graph regardless.

But RIM is stronger in Africa, Canada, Asia, and South America than any of those countries listed, so I would imagine that is where the figure comes from.

[TGR1]

Android had a spectacular year in sales. Given the profits Apple takes home I doubt Apple are sweating the decrease just yet.

You guys are reading the data wrong. The *installed* base, from which the -0.7% and -0.6% are coming from, is for UK only; the marketshare numbers, i.e. sales are for the selected countries. See the asterisk at the bottom of the table.

BTW, are those Australian BB sales numbers for real? Did RIM lose all their carriers there?

ETA: Econ101 posted while I was typing, phooey.

[sosumi11]

From the article:

The picture that emerges is that the market generally is split into two dominant ecosystems, of Apple and Android. RIM's share is being gradually eroded among consumers, but there is no large-scale shift visible yet towards Windows Phone – which was Elop's hope when he abandoned Symbian for Windows Phone, saying that the smartphone market was a war of ecosystems rather than a battle of handsets.

If the survey is supposed to cover operating systems and their ecosystem, why aren't tablets included?

[BBOttawa]

Ok, that makes more sense, if they had only put UK in the first two columns I could have saved opening this thread

But yeah, those Australian #'s are terrible, what's up with that?

[ADozenEggs@aol.com]

Update: On this news, RIMM may take another hit since the company is no longer located in this "world." You've all been warned.

Well, there were these rumors about whether Canada actually existed... Or not...

Just kidding folks! A little Friday night levity never hurt anyone...

[FSeverino]

No matter how you look at this one thing will never change. C
Apple is the Apple of the medias eye. They can do no wrong.

You also have to consider that apple has THE IPAD and MAC and IPOD lines to also pad the bank.

[Economist101]

No matter how you look at this one thing will never change. C
Apple is the Apple of the medias eye. They can do no wrong.

Really? Hmmm:

Why Apple's rumored iTablet will fail big time | Windows - InfoWorld

Why The iTunes/App Store Model Will Ultimately Fail « The eBook Test

Why the Apple phone will fail, and fail badly • The Register

Apple iPhone Will Fail in a Late, Defensive Move: Matthew Lynn - Bloomberg

Why the iPod Will Fail - Softpedia

BW Online | May 21, 2001 | Commentary: Sorry, Steve: Here's Why Apple Stores Won't Work

[Eumaeus]

Neither RIM nor Apple should be worried about absolute market-share. There is still such a vast number of dumb-phone or feature-phone users, that they are all (including Android and MS) competing with non-consumption.

Both companies saw their marketshare decline because the innumerable Android OEMs are replacing dumb-phones with cheap Android phones. That is not a problem... not for RIM, not for Apple.

Android isn't sticky. Android users don't spend a lot of money on apps; and most of them seem to be using Android because it was the cheap-with-subsidy, or just-plain-cheap default phone their carrier sold them.

iOS and BB both bet their future on the stickiness of their platform. iOS users buy lots of apps, and don't want to leave them behind. BB users have their BBM networks, and their secure communication infrastructure and mobile communication practices that they don't want to give up. Both Apple and RIM are more dependent than the Android OEMs on network effects for their success.

Both are more vulnerable to a self-feeding death-spiral if those network effects start to evaporate. That happened to Apple in the '90s. Jobs had to pay court to Microsoft (using ongoing IP litigation and MS's own anti-trust problems as leverage) and to Quicken (showing off prototypes of the iMac and telling a persuasive story of its inevitable consumer success) to convince those vital developers to stay on board. Apple had a tiny window of opportunity to turn around the network-effect-death-spiral, when developers bail, the hardware lacks software, and users bail, encouraging other developers to bail. They were lucky, smart, and aggressive, and pulled it off.

RIM is in the tiny window to pull it off, and they will have to be lucky, smart, and aggressive, too. It is encouraging to see so many upper-level guys leaving. It is also encouraging to see the CEO changing his tune. The management got them into a fix, and most of them need to leave, and the attitude at the very top needs to change, for them to get out of the fix. My hope is that Thorsten has spent the past few years frustrated at the inefficiencies and lack of vision, that his first months as CEO he was treading lightly, and now he has the confidence (and sense of impending doom) necessary to make radical changes.

But, back to the point, absolute numbers matter, not market-share; profit matters, and average selling-price, and for both Apple and RIM, stickiness. Apple is insanely profitable; the app developers make money; and the iOS users buys apps that they won't easily leave behind. So business today is good, and the lock-in suggests that this success will be durable for the foreseeable future.

RIM is not as profitable now as it was, because it built its business and all of its assumptions on its former status as top-dog of the smartphone world. That world has changed, and Thorsten, I hope, recognizes that the version of RIM that can be successful over the next few years will look nothing like the version of RIM of the last few years. But BB10 needs to be good for BB enthusiasts, and retain the stickiness that has nurtured RIM's fan base over the years.

[world traveler and former ceo]

no one stays on top forever .. just ask Microsoft ...

[Economist101]

no one stays on top forever .. just ask Microsoft ...

Microsoft has been #1 in worldwide computer operating systems for 20+ years. It's called "Windows." Oh, I see. You meant "just ask Microsoft how to stay on top for 20 years." My mistake. I'll read more carefully next time.

[Thunderbuck]

I'm not completely sure how important market share really is when the market itself is expanding fairly rapidly...

[FSeverino]

Really? Hmmm:

Why Apple's rumored iTablet will fail big time | Windows - InfoWorld

Why The iTunes/App Store Model Will Ultimately Fail « The eBook Test

Why the Apple phone will fail, and fail badly • The Register

Apple iPhone Will Fail in a Late, Defensive Move: Matthew Lynn - Bloomberg

Why the iPod Will Fail - Softpedia

BW Online | May 21, 2001 | Commentary: Sorry, Steve: Here's Why Apple Stores Won't Work

Those articles are older then the Playbook...

How many sales did they make with a device that over heats, has spotty wi-fi and NO 4G outside of North America... exactly my point.

5 news articles about 5 different devices are a lot different then the hundreds there should be just on the issues with the new iPad alone. Yes, people may write that Apple will do bad... but the number of articles is slim compared to what it should be

[Economist101]

Those articles are older then the Playbook...

Your exact quote was as follows:

No matter how you look at this one thing will never change. C
Apple is the Apple of the medias eye. They can do no wrong.

Yet, by posting those articles, I showed the media clearly does not uniformly agree that Apple can do no wrong. It doesn't matter how old the articles are if the media never changes.

How many sales did they make with a device that over heats, has spotty wi-fi and NO 4G outside of North America... exactly my point.

Your comment was about media coverage, not "sales." In fact, you didn't mention sales at all.

5 news articles about 5 different devices are a lot different then the hundreds there should be just on the issues with the new iPad alone. Yes, people may write that Apple will do bad... but the number of articles is slim compared to what it should be

Ah. So you've gone from "No matter how you look at this one thing will never change. Apple is the Apple of the medias eye" to "yes, people may write that Apple will do bad," which is directly opposite of your initial premise. As for stories on the new iPad, here you go, all recent:

Consumer Reports Names New iPad Top Tablet, Says Heat Isn’t “Cause For Concern” | TechCrunch

New iPad owners complain of 3G connection issues | Apple - CNET News

News Headlines

The First iPad Exit Poll: Disappointing turn-out for

[FSeverino]

Yet, by posting those articles, I showed the media clearly does not uniformly agree that Apple can do no wrong. It doesn't matter how old the articles are if the media never changes.

I agree... that was a fault on my end, because what i meant was that IT WOULD NOT EASILY change. Or, it would not change as easily/quickly as that of other companies
--- in the media a couple of months of news coverage is a long time, so 'never' is a relative term

Your comment was about media coverage, not "sales." In fact, you didn't mention sales at all.

Positive media = sales.
Negative media = no sales.

Ah. So you've gone from "No matter how you look at this one thing will never change. Apple is the Apple of the medias eye" to "yes, people may write that Apple will do bad," which is directly opposite of your initial premise. As for stories on the new iPad, here you go, all recent:

Again, this is because what i really meant was that the current perception is unlikely to change as easily as other companies have/will.

I agree that that was an error on my part.

Consumer Reports Names New iPad Top Tablet, Says Heat Isn’t “Cause For Concern” | TechCrunch

This actually goes a bit in my favour because it states that they know there are problems, but its ok... but there are problems

" Like most products, the new iPad has quirks, but they’re greatly outweighed by the high-points."

Im sorry, but NO 4G in the majority of the world is a bit more then a hiccup... especially when advertised as 4G READY

New iPad owners complain of 3G connection issues | Apple - CNET News

Describes the flaw... one article

News Headlines

A very good article... second

The First iPad Exit Poll: Disappointing turn-out for

Great article again...

My question though, is this, how long did it take this 'decline' to happen? RIM was bottomed out in just over a year (stock wise).

Were these news pieces on TV (how many americans subscribe to newspapers vs have TVs)? We are talking about awareness of the general public, not 'tech' minded people ... RIM was on TV ALL THE TIME

Are these on EVERY MAJOR NEWS SOURCE like RIM was?

Dont get me wrong, im not comparing RIM with Apple (just using RIM because it is the most recent example of the media jumping on a bandwagon)... RIM deserves most of the negative media it has received due to its own inaction and bad choices, there is NO denying that.

My point is that with the release of iPad2 and iPhone 4S people were already 'wondering' about Apple, yet the new iPad will see a slight decrease in purchases. If the release of 'questionable' upgrades/releases started in around March 2011 then by now Apple should be feeling something... but they arent getting hit that hard. The iPad release has hit them a bit, but you also have to consider that some people may be taking the 'wow, this is what Apple releases after Jobs dies?' approach and putting A LOT of stock into the impact that Jobs had in the company and the possible direction it will take after his loss.

I dont want to take this thread off topic (which is market share), the point i was making is that the media is 'kinder' to Apple and is far more likely to take a negative stance when dealing with other companies. Would reports of 'Giving Up/ Throwing in The Towel' happen DURING an Apple conference call, or would the reports listen to the entire conversation and research the info? ... there is a clear difference in perception and that is ALL i was saying.

The iPad is GREAT and I LOVE my iPhone... but they have problems just as any other device, but i dont seem to hear about them as much.