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  1. Homo Erectus's Avatar
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    Default Will BlackBerry 10 Be Another PlayBook?

    If you want to know how Research In Motion’s BlackBerry 10 platform is going to fare at market, looking over the performance of the company’s PlayBook tablet is likely a good idea.

    As encouraging as it might be to hear brokerages giving BB10 a one-in-three chance of success and to read that the OS has been positively received by carriers, there are a handful of issues that belie such tentative optimism. And to some extent they’re similar to those that hamstrung RIM’s foray into the tablet market. In fact, some would say they’re identical.

    “We saw similar optimism around the PlayBook ahead of its launch and we think recent sentiment about BB10 performance in the market is again too optimistic,” said Wedge Partners analyst Brian Blair, who describes recent enthusiasm for the operating system’s prospects as something of a stretch. “We don’t see any scenario where the new device could make a meaningful dent in the consumer or enterprise market next year.”

    What’s there to stop it? The same things that undermined PlayBook. Strong competition from more established rivals, and consumers that have had more than enough time to develop strong affinities for their platforms.

    RIM’s task with BlackBerry 10 is to create a mobile platform that’s as compelling as iOS and Android, just as its task with PlayBook was to create a tablet that matched or surpassed the iPad. That’s a tall order and one that RIM seems ill-equipped to fill. Clearly, it didn’t manage it with PlayBook. Can it pull it off with BB10?

    It would be quite a feat if it did, and fascinating to watch. But it’s going to be extraordinarily difficult.

    “RIM will be offering an entirely new OS, a brand new UI and experience to its user base,” said Blair. “And when compared to the other … major players in the smartphone market next year, we don’t believe that BB10 will offer anything more than the existing options. In fact, we expect most reviews of BB10 to confirm that it offers less. … And unless the price points are substantially lower than existing offerings, it will be a very tough sell once its on the shelves.”

    Will BlackBerry 10 Be Another PlayBook? - John Paczkowski - Mobile - AllThingsD
  2. S180's Avatar
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    Silly comparison. RIM acknowledged their shortcomings with PlayBook, and have worked towards exactly not repeating the PlayBook debacle.

    PlayBook was lacking basic features at launch, which won't be the case with BB10.
    BB10 has carrier support.
    PlayBook had 0 subscribers, whereas there are 80m subscribers of previous BB smartphone versions.
    PlayBook as a product generated very little positive buzz before the release. BB10 has had almost unanimous positive reviews.

    It's almost like comparing RIM to Palm -- everytime someone does that, I have to do a facepalm.
    Last edited by S180; 12-10-2012 at 09:05 AM.
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  3. TomJasper's Avatar
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    Yawn. The majority of John's articles(opinions) are praising the "fruit company".

    As we get closer and closer to BB10 launch you can expect those "fruit company" fanboys to

    ratchet up their articles(opinions). It's funny to watch actually, they are worried, for good reason, BB10

    almost here.
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  4. GTiLeo's Avatar
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    the short fall of the playbook works out great for me, once BB10 comes out for it i will have gotten an incredible tablet for $250 no iPad to this date will compare to it
  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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  6. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    Didnt even bother reading your paragraph. Just read the title. No one knows and we wont know for a few months.
  7. berklon's Avatar
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    The two can't be compared really.

    Two different types of devices filling different needs - and released at very different times in the mobile world (ie. tablets were still in their infancy back then).

    If BB10 fails, it won't be in the same way - or to the degree the Playbook failed.
    BB10 failing will have more in common with WebOS devices than it does the Playbook
  8. tonyrenier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    This is the same analyst who wrote this

    Rimm Analyst: Blackberry's Playbook Is "Dead on Arrival"
    Folks, I've referred to Paczkowski as Eayor in the past, if RIM were to produce a product which could solve the mess in the Middle East, he would find a problem with it, just pity him "for he doesn't have a clue.

    Blair on Research In Motion PlayBook Tablet: Video - Bloomberg
    Tony Renier
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  9. silversun10's Avatar
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    obviously RIM has lessons learned from the Playbook introduction, so for sure it will not be like the Playbook.
    really who knows what is going to happen, if BB10 can get a feature that goes viral like the PSY Gangnam video, RIM might surprise big time,
    OK not very likely, but you never know what will happen if something goes viral..........
  10. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    It's also not exactly the same company

    - Different CEO
    - Different COO
    - A CMO
    - A new head of legal
    - Different head of software
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  11. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    So........ he was right.......
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  12. JeepBB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    Considering that 1st article was written pre-Playbook release, and re-reading it now with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say this analyst was spot-on in his assessment of the market reaction to the Playbook and its likely uptake. What that means for BB10 is moot at this time - but you can hardly dismiss his opinion out of hand given the accuracy of his Playbook prediction.

    Time will tell.
    Proud Member of the PlayBook Beta Test Team (Since June 2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcsemcp View Post
    If you want to know how Research In Motion’s BlackBerry 10 platform is going to fare at market, looking over the performance of the company’s PlayBook tablet is likely a good idea.
    For starters, your opening statement is completely false. Why is comparing the playbook to bb10 devices a good idea? For one thing, they're two completely different devices with different operating systems. For another, the PB's demise was due to a woefully incomplete ecosystem that had almost nothing to offer at launch. This clearly isn't the case with bb10.


    “We saw similar optimism around the PlayBook ahead of its launch and we think recent sentiment about BB10 performance in the market is again too optimistic,” said Wedge Partners analyst Brian Blair, who describes recent enthusiasm for the operating system’s prospects as something of a stretch. “We don’t see any scenario where the new device could make a meaningful dent in the consumer or enterprise market next year.”
    A meaningful dent? Rim still owns the enterprise market. Even with the BYOD trend and the numerous articles about this agency and that agency dropping BB, Rim's hold on the enterprise market is substantially higher then Apple, Droid or Windows Phone. And with the introduction of mobile fusion, and BES10, their enterprise infrastructure can handle the competition's devices too. No one is going to be installing an ios/droid enterprise server. Everyone who currently has BES will eventually upgrade to BES10 becuase it'll let them control ALL devices being used by their employees.

    What’s there to stop it? The same things that undermined PlayBook. Strong competition from more established rivals, and consumers that have had more than enough time to develop strong affinities for their platforms.
    Again, it wasn't strong competition from rivals that hindered the playbook, it was the fact that the PB could barely do anything useful. As for affinities to platforms, what about the 80 million users that are still holding on to their BB's? You think we all waited this long only to switch to apple or android when the devices launch?


    “RIM will be offering an entirely new OS, a brand new UI and experience to its user base,” said Blair. “And when compared to the other … major players in the smartphone market next year, we don’t believe that BB10 will offer anything more than the existing options. In fact, we expect most reviews of BB10 to confirm that it offers less. … And unless the price points are substantially lower than existing offerings, it will be a very tough sell once its on the shelves.”
    A few things here.....When the iphone launched in 2007, it also offered an entirely new OS and a brand new UI and UX. Did that hinder it from getting widespread acceptance? No. As for bb10 not offering anything more then the existing options, well first of all that's simply not true. Even with the limited reveals of bb10, its easy to see that the UX is completely different then anything out there currently. Perhaps Mr. Blair can be more precise as to what he means by "more". On the other hand, when droid launched, it was an exact copy of ios. It offered nothing different, and it wasn't even as good as ios, with the fragmentation, the lag, the lack of security. Yet that didn't keep it from prospering. Now sure, you can make the argument that droid offered another option to ios, and that's why it succeeded, but the same can be said of BB10. It offers an entirely new experience, drastically different then both ios and droid (which are essentially the same anyway). The assumption that the general public doesn't like change is preposterous, considering all the evidence to the contrary.

    He also says that they expect most reviews of BB10 to confirm that it offers less........What is he basing that on? Just a hunch? Every review we've seen so far has been nothing but good, with even the most stringent critic admitting that it's an impressive OS. Not a single analyst that has seen BB10 so far has given it a bad review, or said that it offers less. And this isn't even the final version yet. So what basis does Mr. Blair have for his assertion?
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  14. bk1022's Avatar
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    Let's try the opposite of an ad hominem attack. Someone said something about the playbook and it turned out to be prescient. He is now saying something else about BB10. Is there a pattern? Only the future will tell.

    What we do know is that BB10 sports a nice UI but is otherwise not spectacular. Given the maturity of the market place, I don't know if that is enough.

    Traditional RIM advantages of physical keyboard and BBM are rapidly becoming immaterial. There are significant disadvantages going with an unproven platform from a brand that has had less than stellar third party support for apps and accessories.

    Yes, some of the executive has been changed, but BB10 is still not released and high spending users have not been given a reason to be loyal to the brand.
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  15. Frank Castle's Avatar
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    AllThingsD have been anti RIM for a long time, and in the past RIM did plenty to give them fodder.

    What I'm tired of are biased opinions when nothing is known outside of what RIM has shown. BB10 could be the best mobile OS and hardware ever released and the anti RIM crowd will find something to complain about. I'd brush it off if they called out iOS and Android for their own shortcomings but things seem to get glossed over by these clowns.

    Playbook had its flaws and RIM obviously took their lessons behind the woodshed to heart.

    Where Playbook fell down:

    - Lack of native email + PIM. Focusing on security and enterprise killed consumer interest.
    - Size. The market wanted a 10" option, 7" were not as popular as they are now
    - Price. Playbook should've launched $349 and under.
    - Apps. The lack of key Apps hurt Playbook, regardless how solid the browser was.
    - Ecosystem. People harp about this but I've yet to buy an MP3, movie or ebook on ANY device. Playbooks needs a few codecs more and I'm fine.

    RIM has worked on each of these issues. They now likely have the best developer tools and are an untapped market for App developers.

    You also have to wonder some of these negative analysts how short they were and what their positions are, many of these are known Pro Apple parrots.

    Let's face it iPhone has peaked, they are churning the same user base and hoping they upgrade to current devices. iOS is stale, the UI limited. Android is killing Apple with low end devices but fragmentation is hurting Android. The major Android build is 2.2/2.3 which is 3 years old. Android is where it is for one reason - cheap devices with large screens. Everyone got caught up in the hardware pissing contest. The funny thing is the majority of Android owners couldn't tell you a thing about their device other than it runs Apps and has a big screen.

    BB10 doesn't have to be the uber device of all time - it has to be a device Blackberry owners want and is comparable. If RIM can provide a similar experience (or surprass the current market) they'll surprise people. I don't think anyone has a pulse on how the market can change. People are always looking for the next new gadget. I like the UI and workflow RIM is pulling together. It makes using iOS seems even more childish.
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    Until the official launch event on 30 January 2013, everyone is speculating about the success or demise of Research In Motion and more to the point the BlackBerry brand. For those claiming BlackBerry OS 10 will have a complete ecosystem in terms of hardware and software, you are speculating based on a few random tweets and dog-and-pony presentations. For the naysayers the situation is even more speculative although the track record of Research In Motion provides some basis for a small percentage of the predicted fate. So until 30 January 2013, please stop speculating. If Thorsten, Frank, Vivek, and Alex screw BlackBerry 10 the lynch mobs can form in front of corporate headquarters and the massacre can commence the morning after the 1Q2013 quarterly meeting. But until that time stuff a dirty sock in your speculative mouths.
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  17. silversun10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB9700CA View Post
    Until the official launch event on 30 January 2013, everyone is speculating about the success or demise of Research In Motion and more to the point the BlackBerry brand. For those claiming BlackBerry OS 10 will have a complete ecosystem in terms of hardware and software, you are speculating based on a few random tweets and dog-and-pony presentations. For the naysayers the situation is even more speculative although the track record of Research In Motion provides some basis for a small percentage of the predicted fate. So until 30 January 2013, please stop speculating. If Thorsten, Frank, Vivek, and Alex screw BlackBerry 10 the lynch mobs can form in front of corporate headquarters and the massacre can commence the morning after the 1Q2013 quarterly meeting. But until that time stuff a dirty sock in your speculative mouths.
    what is wrong with speculating? that is all we have at this point........
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  18. BBPandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    So........ he was right.......
    The point is that the guy just re-hashed what Steve Jobs had said. Don't go around being a Steve Jobs mouthpiece & then get upset that people call you an Apple fanboi
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    Default Will BlackBerry 10 Be Another PlayBook?

    We have to see what is said the 30th of Jan. If there are no missing pieces and last minute admissions of this, things are looking a lot better for the BB10 devices. The PlayBook had been terribly bad-mouthed by the press right up to and at launch. The two huge digs were no native email/PIM, and no apps.
    Contrary to this the press is pretty positive and even to some degree enthusiastic about BB10. BUT there are no known gotchas at this time.

    If on the 30th RIM says no NetFlix, no this no that... Etc. Then the press are going to savage them. Nonetheless we already know and see BB10 will have all the things most BB die hards are waiting for. So there is a built in market whereas there was none for the PlayBook (as another poster has mentioned).

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
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    The only problem I see with newcomers (using that word for WP8, BB10 etc but they're both more like renovations) is that iPhone and Android are so deeply entrenched now it's too hard for underdogs to topple, they're basically going to have to kill themselves. iPhone had it easy they were the first of their kind to reach a mass audience. Android didn't have it bad because they were licensed out to every OEM under the sun, and had the fortunate timing and opportunity to be iPhone's only alternative.

    I expect both WP8 and BB10 to be received with some mild enthusiasm, and for sales to be just modest. But I see nothing wrong with that. Why do some people need this launch to be "epic"? It doesn't need to be. BB10 just needs to be fairly warmly received and decently profitable, it doesn't need to be an overnight Apple killing sensation. I don't think it's going to actually flop though. They've done a good job with it. What could possibly kill it is if we get surprised with a bunch of deal breaker problems with the phone nobody caught before launch. I doubt it, but anything's possible.
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    Default Re: Will BlackBerry 10 Be Another PlayBook?

    I think much too little is actually known about BB10. And I applaud RIM for being able to keep it shrouded in quite so much mystery even this close to launch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    Well I would say that when it came to the PB he was dead right.

    Let's hope he's dead wrong about BB10. Need RIM to survive.
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    Default Will BlackBerry 10 Be Another PlayBook?

    The playbook was not a failure at all! BB10's release was delayed due to the changing of guard at Rim and probably for good reasons. Rim's new managment team knew they needed to get it right one time or else. The playbook will get an update that will play along with the new BB10 devices.

    Until sales increase Rim is not going to manufacture more playbooks until the demand is there. Personally everyone in my family are Iphone users except me but they all love my playbook over their tablets!

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    No one knows how good or bad BB10 will fare... We can hope it will succeed, but the truth is that at this point we don't know anything that assures this to us, of course nothing it's telling us otherwise too, so let's wait and see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBPandy View Post
    The point is that the guy just re-hashed what Steve Jobs had said. Don't go around being a Steve Jobs mouthpiece & then get upset that people call you an Apple fanboi
    Which bit in the linked article did he rehash? I cannot honestly remember Steve Jobs every talking about the playbook.
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