[Whimsical Dreaming] Apple Inc. to Invest in RIM

[mjs416]

Originally Posted by conix67

Like the articles you linked say, Apple didn't see a penny of $150million from Microsoft. If the cash was what's needed, $150 million would not have helped them much at all in that situation anyway.

Im not arguing anymore. Every single one of those articles states that Microsoft purchased $150 million in shares, promised to offer MS office support for 5 years and a law suit was dropped. Where you are getting the idea that microsoft didnt see a penny of that I have no idea. Read what you want and parse sentences for whatever you lets you sleep at night. You seem to think you know more than the dozens of articles out there so good luck.

EDIT: I randomly chose an article (which was the PBS one) and here is what it said...

"MARGARET WARNER: All right. Gary Arlen, let's focus now on Apple. What exactly does Apple get out of this?

GARY ARLEN: Well, the $150 million gets Apple a little new lease on life. "

So... if you are still interpreting that as Microsoft didnt give/invest/donate/ that money to Apple. I have no idea what you're drinking.

[Economist101]

Originally Posted by sam_b77

But isn't RIM's drop in cash also a factor of their major acquisitions and also collaborating with Apple to buy Nortel patents?

The former isn't clearly a primary cause of the cash drop; the latter, on the other hand, was clearly a significant cost ($780 million). The question is whether it's wise to spend 25% of your total cash on patents.

Originally Posted by sam_b77

There is a difference between posting a loss of $1 billion in cash and spending $1.5 billion in buying assets for future growth.

You think the Nortel patents were about "future growth"? Really?

Originally Posted by sam_b77

And please don't bring up the Playbook write down. That was a Write Down, not a cash loss.

Those accounting rules come in handy from time to time.

[brucep1]

It is a shame that people reference that Apple story from 1997 as hope for RIM in 2012.

[Tõnis]

Why is everyone so in love with apple? It's like a cult. I can't stand apple. There's no way I'm gonna sport a goatee, put on some smart-guy glasses, and parade around with a macbook.

[sam_b77]

Originally Posted by Economist101

The former isn't clearly a primary cause of the cash drop; the latter, on the other hand, was clearly a significant cost ($780 million). The question is whether it's wise to spend 25% of your total cash on patents.



You think the Nortel patents were about "future growth"? Really?



Those accounting rules come in handy from time to time.

Wasn't TAT purchased this year as well?

Regarding patents purchase, if not for future growth, then you can assume it was to guard against future patent lawsuits which would have impacted growth and blocked RIM from certain technologies. So in a way it was for growth, in as much as that having a hand in that pie was a safety against being blocked out.

As for write down vs. cash loss, Instead of sarcasm why don't you tell me how you interpret the difference between the two and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation?

Go ahead, I'm listening.

[Rootbrian]

I would like to see apple partner up with other mobile hardware makers including Research in motion. Partnership is something else, it makes companies look good in my views.

[dbw1000]

Cash burn rate is important. If RIM or any company burns cash at a high rate and they cannot point to either (1) investments that will payback on a known timeline or (2) true one time expenses, it is a real concern. That was a concern for Apple in 1997 also. The deal showed confidence from MS and a commitment to keep Office going, both probably more important than the stock purchase. RIM could use such a confidence boost in the market way more than the cash right now.

[TGR1]

Originally Posted by Tõnis

Why is everyone so in love with apple? It's like a cult. I can't stand apple. There's no way I'm gonna sport a goatee, put on some smart-guy glasses, and parade around with a macbook.

Neither do the vast majority of Apple fans, who are far less cultish than certain BB fans appear to be.

In the context of business, which this thread is, Apple is an exceptionally visible success story. An anomaly, unfortunately, as very, very few (if any) other companies in trouble will be able to emulate it.

[conix67]

Originally Posted by Tõnis

Why is everyone so in love with apple? It's like a cult. I can't stand apple. There's no way I'm gonna sport a goatee, put on some smart-guy glasses, and parade around with a macbook.

Hardly everyone. Why can't you stand Apple, what bad did they do to you?

My first apple product was iPod, it was ok. I love my iPhone, not Apple. I like my iPad 2, and RIM Playbook. But I will probably never get iMac or Macbook. There are certain things I don't like Apple does, but I do like Apple products I own.

[conix67]

Originally Posted by mjs416

Im not arguing anymore. Every single one of those articles states that Microsoft purchased $150 million in shares, promised to offer MS office support for 5 years and a law suit was dropped. Where you are getting the idea that microsoft didnt see a penny of that I have no idea. Read what you want and parse sentences for whatever you lets you sleep at night. You seem to think you know more than the dozens of articles out there so good luck.

EDIT: I randomly chose an article (which was the PBS one) and here is what it said...

"MARGARET WARNER: All right. Gary Arlen, let's focus now on Apple. What exactly does Apple get out of this?

GARY ARLEN: Well, the $150 million gets Apple a little new lease on life. "

So... if you are still interpreting that as Microsoft didnt give/invest/donate/ that money to Apple. I have no idea what you're drinking.

If you read official announcement, there's no mention of Apple getting $150 million in CASH, for Microsoft having purchased $150 million worth of Apple stocks. However, this was a significant event.

The dozens of articles, none are real facts more than what Bill and Steve said in that announcements. Neither Apple or Microsoft wanted to disclose what went on behind the announcements, but the fact is that Apple was never short of cash through the difficult times.

Microsoft and Apple weren't quite friends. There's no need for Microsoft to save Apple at the time, and even if they did $150 million wasn't going to be sufficient if they were losing money at that rate. However, Apple managed to accumulate cash mysteriously, and the real money appear to have come from MS or Intel, or both. So was the money given to Apple so Apple can survive? No, Apple played the card right, and got much needed cash, but not through the $150 million investment from MS as media suggested.

[kevinnugent]

I wonder if MS kept the stock? It would be worth a lot these days!

[Palmless]

Originally Posted by kevinnugent

I wonder if MS kept the stock? It would be worth a lot these days!

$40B?

$150,000,000 @$7 (Aug 2007) = 21,428,571 shares

Two splits = 85,714,286 shares

@ today's close $468.83

$40,185,428,705

Apple Stock Still Looks Cheap At All-Time Highs (AAPL, XOM, MSFT) - 24/7 Wall St.

[mikelcal]

Tell me why I was thinking about this very same proposition just the other day, and see this as a move that would benefit both parties. On the one hand RIM needs a vote of confidence in the media and Apple is in the position to "anoint" RIM as a worthy and suitable competitor amongst android and wp.

And given some Apple customers are unhappy about manufacturing plant conditions, this would also credit them with a philanthropic act, with no need to cross license anything...well maybe cross licensing facetime would be a good move also for both parts.

[swyost]

Apple does not invest in its competitors, nor does Google. They put them out of business and buy up the pieces. For all the negative talk about Microsoft over the years, it is actually much more a part of their business model over the past 15 years. If RIM made it worth the time/money, Steve Balmer (really Bill Gates) would probably not hesitate to pump cash into RIM. They've done it with Apple, Best Buy, Nokia, ESRI, Yahoo, etc., etc., and supposedly still have an interest in acquiring RIM outright. Yes, Microsoft did some seriously aggressive stuff in the past, but the 80s and 90s are long since over, and that is not their corporate MO anymore. BTW, Microsoft actually invested a lot more than 150 million in Apple in the end and there are lots of other elements to the deal that are still kept secret. They also make a lot of money off of Apple through licensing and patent agreements. The same could easily be true for RIM if they were willing to come to the table in the same way that Apple and Nokia did in the past....

[phoreoneone]

i don't think so. microsoft probably did it because bill and steve knew each other