Where are the impresive cascades in BB10?

**milhouse999** · 02-11-2013, 05:53 AM

I have viewed a lot of utube videos on Z10 lately and found my self underwelmed with the level of cascades built into BB10 today. This is paticularly around native aps for viewing music and videos. Relative to the competition, to me it looks like we are seeing cascades "lite".

I think this because of the demos we were shown when cascades was unvailes at a developer conference. Some of those demos would still be impresive today. Do you recall the floating pictures, or the unique view of your inbox. That was really cool and "hardcore" cascades not present in the BB10 available today. The tools to build such nice flow ware to be included into the native developer toolpack, are they available?

We are all familiar with the list of aps that are committed to BB10. I for one don't think they would jurk around and not develop. Rather, I like to think that their aps are developed native with hardcore cascades.

So why delay or hide the full extent of cascades? Perhaps just to perfect the launch into the most lucrative market, and save some serious wow factor for the grand release to the all important US market.

BlackBerry said it targeted a launch with 70,000 aps. It did that, but do any of them have impresive cascades effects built into them? Could there be another wave of stunning aps comming that are developed by the big names with access to cascade tools that are not yet totaly public.

These are my thoughts. I don't own a Z10 so perhaps the cascades built in are impresive already. However, the utube videos make me think the full potential of cascades is noticably absent in some critical native aps.

**Foreverup** · 02-11-2013, 08:00 AM

All cascades is is a developing platform for BB10. What the developers decide to do with is their choose.

**Buju Banton** · 02-11-2013, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Foreverup

All cascades is is a developing platform for BB10. What the developers decide to do with is their choose.

this........

**allhookedup** · 02-11-2013, 11:23 AM

^^^ I understand this, but does anyone know of any TAT apps in BlackBerry World that show off the potentional of cascades on BB10?

I believe there are a couple on the playbook. i.e. Scrapbook

**Foreverup** · 02-11-2013, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by allhookedup

^^^ I understand this, but does anyone know of any TAT apps in BlackBerry World that show off the potentional of cascades on BB10?

I believe there are a couple on the playbook. i.e. Scrapbook

The calculator is developed by TAT. After that the UI framework is cascades so the transition going between app pages. It is there but probably not anything that will wow you, which is what i think you are looking for.

**shlammed** · 02-11-2013, 12:27 PM

most of what you saw were just proof of concepts

not actually meant for release

like the cool contact roladex app they showed off

**Rello** · 02-11-2013, 12:39 PM

People want to see that "proof of concept" though. The photo viewer app they showed years ago look absolutely stunning. I want to see much more of that. I'm hoping that now that TAT has completed much of the UI guidelines of Cascades that BB will have them play a bigger role in developing apps. I'd love to see all first party apps created using Cascades. The visual flair could go a long way for BB

**Foreverup** · 02-11-2013, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Rello

People want to see that "proof of concept" though. The photo viewer app they showed years ago look absolutely stunning. I want to see much more of that. I'm hoping that now that TAT has completed much of the UI guidelines of Cascades that BB will have them play a bigger role in developing apps. I'd love to see all first party apps created using Cascades. The visual flair could go a long way for BB

Yeah we would like to see them, but RIM is an OS company. I don't think we will see them developing apps like we have in the past, basically cause they had to, they will work with partners to get apps to the platform. After that if it isn't a feature that works as a component to the OS I don't think you will see it as an individual app.

**BBPandy** · 02-11-2013, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rello

People want to see that "proof of concept" though. The photo viewer app they showed years ago look absolutely stunning. I want to see much more of that. I'm hoping that now that TAT has completed much of the UI guidelines of Cascades that BB will have them play a bigger role in developing apps. I'd love to see all first party apps created using Cascades. The visual flair could go a long way for BB

Yea that truly was stunning...maybe not practicle, but still looked SUPER COOL. They should have had it as a cool option you could enable on the Z10 for when you wanted to show it off to your friends lol

**drummer_god** · 02-11-2013, 02:59 PM

That calculator is lacking %.

Pretty big omission on a calculator.

**FSeverino** · 02-11-2013, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by drummer_god

That calculator is lacking %.

Pretty big omission on a calculator.

i never actually use % i just multiple by the correct amount. 10% of 100 is 100x0.10 simple as that
(not making excuses, jsut saying what I do)

I also really like the fact that you can go to the previous calculations and just add them back into the current one. I used my PB like an adding machine all the time lol

**Rello** · 02-11-2013, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Foreverup

Yeah we would like to see them, but RIM is an OS company. I don't think we will see them developing apps like we have in the past, basically cause they had to, they will work with partners to get apps to the platform. After that if it isn't a feature that works as a component to the OS I don't think you will see it as an individual app.

Im kinda confused by the "RIM is an OS company" comment. Are u saying they don't wanna develope first party apps anymore. I hope that's not what's gonna happen. Why invest so much into cascades and not have a lot of people use it? There are probably more android ports than cascade apps by a wide margin. I'm all for BB collaborating and partnering for things they need on the platform...but I think making the first party app themselves and showing developers its power can really help to get more developer support. Scrapbook, print to go, calculator....all perform excellent and look great. I'd love to see more of this...

**Rello** · 02-11-2013, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by BBPandy

Yea that truly was stunning...maybe not practicle, but still looked SUPER COOL. They should have had it as a cool option you could enable on the Z10 for when you wanted to show it off to your friends lol

Thank you. This is exactly what I'm saying. I understand some of it might not be practicle, but BB10 could use that eye candy. That video that TAT did with with like 5 PlayBooks and how they showed them all using a beautiful UI and displaying a unified picture....where is stuff like that lol. This group is obviously capable to producing gorgeous/functioning apps...BB needs to put them to use now that they've done the bulk of the work creating cascades for developers. Apps like the music app, photo viewer, and Maps (especially maps. Looks very plain IMO) on BB10 just seem "ok" to me. Just seems like something more/better couldve been done with TAT's help. In BB's defense. This is a 1.0 OS. They had to lay much of the foundation before they complete more of the complicated work. Hopefully this stuff is coming in BB11 and beyond

**habicht** · 02-11-2013, 03:47 PM

Cascades is somehow 1.0 and BlackBerry is doing great to follow their own guideline and not to confuse Users and Developers with complex animations and transitions. Even if they look great on a YouTube video you get very soon bored or confused.

Have a close look at the standard ui elements and how well they are animated and designed.

Perfect for getting things done...

On the other side I am confident cascades will get better and better with future releases... but don't expect BlackBerry 10 to be a candy store.

Peter

**GTiLeo** · 02-11-2013, 03:51 PM

one concept i really liekd that TAT did was the meetign concept with the playbooks that allowed document passign and communication betweek multiple playbooks i na meeting, if TAT could bring such a thing to BB10 that would be an incredible business advantage, although some may not actually be able to see how this could benefit but it would result in easy transitions between business documents in board meetings and such. a need for a projector unless in a big keynote presentation could be redundant as all the documents are right infrom of everyone on their own devices mostlikely company issued

**dentynefire** · 02-11-2013, 05:24 PM

I remember a TAT guy saying that the platform is powerful enough to have these apps but never anything about having them.
Its a little odd that TAT doesn't produce more apps. Not saying they aren't busy but what's the point of showing concepts if its never going to see the light of day as an app? I mean I'll have just as much chance having these apps as buying an iPhone.

What I'd like to see is a Github started for them but I imagine TAT would never release their secret sauce (code). Too bad though

**greatwiseone** · 02-11-2013, 05:36 PM

The TAT guys have been hard at work on the Cascades SDK (it's REALLY easy to make nice looking apps - like the CB10 app with Cascades). They've also been working on some stuff like the Picture Editor (which is awesome). We'll see more TAT influence on things, but I don't think you should expect TAT to be RIM's internal app factory. TAT's got more important stuff to deal with....

As to the crazy demo's, you guys have to realize that some of it is unrealistic. For instance, the cool stereoscopic 3D media library looks great on the PlayBook, but it probably uses so much RAM that you can't have anything else running. These were proof of concepts things that might end up making it into some apps (e.g. the Scrapbook app on the PlayBook), but a proof of concept is a proof of concept.

**dynot** · 02-11-2013, 06:13 PM

I just wish someone would tell BBRY to practice what you preach. Why would developers use it if BBRY won't even use it for basic apps like contacts management. Heck, half the work was already done in that preview sample.

**greatwiseone** · 02-11-2013, 06:51 PM

Um...Contacts is built with Cascades. The hallmark of an app built with Cascades is the peek gesture within the application (i.e. you can peek back to previous screen or go all the way back to the "compact sidebar" (see Must Know BlackBerry 10 Tip - Using the "Compact Sidebar" will let you jump around the BlackBerry Hub and within apps FAST! | CrackBerry.com). The fancy demo's were done because RIM had nothing to show at those times. UI/UX has to be functional as well. For instance, the little drop down menus (with arrow spinning), the alarm clock design, the buttons flying from one side to the other, etc.are all Cascades. They are all little touches that TAT calls "moments of charm".

BB10 UI guidelines really give you a good insight as to why things are done the way they are (https://developer.blackberry.com/dev...rinciples.html).

**allhookedup** · 02-11-2013, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Foreverup

The calculator is developed by TAT. After that the UI framework is cascades so the transition going between app pages. It is there but probably not anything that will wow you, which is what i think you are looking for.

The BB10 UI is all "wow factor" to me, don't get me wrong. TAT has done amazing work.

**milhouse999** · 02-11-2013, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by greatwiseone

Um...Contacts is built with Cascades. The hallmark of an app built with Cascades is the peek gesture within the application (i.e. you can peek back to previous screen or go all the way back to the "compact sidebar" (see Must Know BlackBerry 10 Tip - Using the "Compact Sidebar" will let you jump around the BlackBerry Hub and within apps FAST! | CrackBerry.com). The fancy demo's were done because RIM had nothing to show at those times. UI/UX has to be functional as well. For instance, the little drop down menus (with arrow spinning), the alarm clock design, the buttons flying from one side to the other, etc.are all Cascades. They are all little touches that TAT calls "moments of charm".

BB10 UI guidelines really give you a good insight as to why things are done the way they are (https://developer.blackberry.com/dev...rinciples.html).

This helped to explain a lot. The new BB is not going for wow factor.

**Emu the Foo** · 02-11-2013, 11:31 PM

I see both sides. People want sexy but practical. And its hard to come together with both. Looking at cars only recently have we seen gorgeous cars that are also practical, look at the Aventador... But then again it costs 500k after tax, title and registration. Now the Gtr may not be the most stunning, eye catching piece of candy, but every single curve, nook, bend, round off, and crease is for aerodynamics. It's supermarket performance in a sub-100k price tag (not after tax, title and so on [unless you live in Oregon ]). So maybe blackberry, at least for the moment is keeping it for function first then cascades blowing our minds. Maybe not. We will just have to wait and see.

Yes I consider the aventador a practice super car. I mean it gets 17 mpg highway with 700hp. The Gtr and r8 practical too. Gtr is 23 mpg highway.

Btw they moved the head phone jack to the top. Didn't that blow any minds??? LOL

**Rello** · 02-11-2013, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by GTiLeo

one concept i really liekd that TAT did was the meetign concept with the playbooks that allowed document passign and communication betweek multiple playbooks i na meeting, if TAT could bring such a thing to BB10 that would be an incredible business advantage, although some may not actually be able to see how this could benefit but it would result in easy transitions between business documents in board meetings and such. a need for a projector unless in a big keynote presentation could be redundant as all the documents are right infrom of everyone on their own devices mostlikely company issued

This is the video I was referring to in my previous post. I would absolutely LOVE to see more like this.

**Rello** · 02-12-2013, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by greatwiseone

The TAT guys have been hard at work on the Cascades SDK (it's REALLY easy to make nice looking apps - like the CB10 app with Cascades). They've also been working on some stuff like the Picture Editor (which is awesome). We'll see more TAT influence on things, but I don't think you should expect TAT to be RIM's internal app factory. TAT's got more important stuff to deal with....

As to the crazy demo's, you guys have to realize that some of it is unrealistic. For instance, the cool stereoscopic 3D media library looks great on the PlayBook, but it probably uses so much RAM that you can't have anything else running. These were proof of concepts things that might end up making it into some apps (e.g. the Scrapbook app on the PlayBook), but a proof of concept is a proof of concept.

What else are they going to be doing lol. Just kidding, but really...now that they've got the bulk of the Cascades SDK done, what else are they going to work on? Don't get me wrong...a lot of the old stuff they used to do was much too "cartoony" for BB, but I'd still love to see them implement some of their proof of concepts. Scrapbook was a proof of concept at one point and they made it happen on a actual product.

I wouldn't ever use the Compass app, but man...from what I've seen on videos of it, it looks gorgeous. Why not let TAT start gradually handling more app duties?