What are they not telling us?

**trsbbs** · 06-28-2012, 03:44 PM

After expecting and seeing bad numbers for RIM today all that paled against
one mentioned item.

BB10 has been delayed until 2013.

Did they say why?

Something has to be seriously wrong with BB10 and its development and implementation for RIM, to once more, delay its arrival.

Thor can say "they want to get it right" all he wants. What is concerning is how long it is taking them "to get it right".

Whats wrong with BB10 Thor? What is causing it to be delayed, again and again?

Come clean with us.

For RIM to put this off even further down the line hurts them in many ways:

Burn through even more "on hand" cash and assests. Do they have enough?
Loose more in the way of current customer loyalty.
Worsen non-customer views of Blackberry products and the company itself. Bad Press.
Loose even more market share.
Folks tired of getting "more of the same" from RIM.
Carriers EOL'ing phones now with no clear BB line to fill in.
Keeping Devs waiting even longer in the wings. They won't wait forever folks. All that hard work gone?

With all this lurking...why would RIM announce this delay so soon and for so long?

Don't you get the feeling somthing is wrong?

Tim

**cgk** · 06-28-2012, 03:46 PM

It explains why we keep seeing the same carefully stage managed canned demo - the software just isn't ready and they can't get it ready for launch this year.

Got to hit developer confidence in this platform.

**EGerhardt** · 06-28-2012, 03:48 PM

I don't know if there's anything 'wrong' with BB10 as such... Personally I would guess they have hit problems getting the devices built rather than the software. I mean the alpha devices are out now, so enough has to be set in stone about the software that its stable enough to go to devs.

Maybe the BB10 devices are being pushed back to take advantage of a next generation of chips ? That would make sense to me. Maybe they want to launch with so many ghz that people have to pay attention, and that means waiting *shrug*.

**lnichols** · 06-28-2012, 03:50 PM

I hope Thor gets torn a new one about the delay in the Q&A session of the call. This is just plain awful. They have kept people from buying OS7 devices because BB10 was supposed to be out Early 2012, then latter 2012 and now Q1 2013. They are also messing with developers who may have been psyched to get BB10 apps to market in the fall and start making some cash. You are your own worse enemy RIM. Android and Apple and WP7 weren't perfect at release, and still are not, nothing ever is. If you are chasing perfection with BB10 then you are fools. Something definitely isn't right with this. I'm almost hoping someone just buys them that can infuse some cash and light a fire under some asses. I'm sick and tired of RIM missing deadlines and apparently Thor is a chip off the former co-CEO's block when it comes to delivering product.

**Foreverup** · 06-28-2012, 03:52 PM

They fired half their OS programmers

That would be my guess for the delay

**OzarkaTexile** · 06-28-2012, 03:54 PM

Making a new mobile OS is hard. They failed. BB10 will likely never be released. RIM is dead.

**trsbbs** · 06-28-2012, 03:54 PM

Sorry but I had to post this from N4BB.

It just says it all.

**kennyliu** · 06-28-2012, 04:00 PM

because the demo BB10 was just a mock up.

**Foreverup** · 06-28-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by kennyliu

because the demo BB10 was just a mock up.

Got admit it was a really nice looking mock up though

**trsbbs** · 06-28-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by cgk

It explains why we keep seeing the same carefully stage managed canned demo - the software just isn't ready and they can't get it ready for launch this year.

Got to hit developer confidence in this platform.

DING DING DING!!!

Seems that way doesn't it?

Tim

**app_Developer** · 06-28-2012, 04:05 PM

They should have been honest with us at the BB10 Jam sessions. How can we believe their new date? I've already started on two apps that I can't now ship for 9 months or more. What a kick in the stomach.

**cgk** · 06-28-2012, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by app_Developer

They should have been honest with us at the BB10 Jam sessions. How can we believe their new date? I've already started on two apps that I can't now ship for 9 months or more. What a kick in the stomach.

So what will you do now? - delay work on the apps? cease work?

**Foreverup** · 06-28-2012, 04:12 PM

Just wondering now, as app_Developer expressed,

Has RIM just squandered all the excitement that the BB Jam session were generating?

**OniPod** · 06-28-2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by app_Developer

They should have been honest with us at the BB10 Jam sessions. How can we believe their new date? I've already started on two apps that I can't now ship for 9 months or more. What a kick in the stomach.

Agree with you. I was just at the Toronto Jam event, they didn't even say anything about a delay. If you say you need devs to survive, why leave them in the dark? Wonder if this news will have any impact on future Jam sessions?

**app_Developer** · 06-28-2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by cgk

So what will you do now? - delay work on the apps? cease work?

I was doing this alone, since my partner and our investors had no confidence in RIM anyway. So, yeah, I'll just file it away for now and then see where things stand in Nov or Dec. I did all the work I could do anyway until the next beta because of the two APIs I need that are still missing.

Of course that's the beta that two people at RIM told me would be in my hands in "about a month", and that was 7 weeks ago. Do the clocks just run really slow up there in Waterloo??

Ugh.

Anyway, we'll obviously look hard at WP8 now since that will obviously ship before BB10 and we have more confidence Microsoft and Nokia can meet schedules.

**lnichols** · 06-28-2012, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by app_Developer

They should have been honest with us at the BB10 Jam sessions. How can we believe their new date? I've already started on two apps that I can't now ship for 9 months or more. What a kick in the stomach.

I knew this was going to have an effect on the developers too. It definitely won't help get the big name apps on board. I wonder how many companies that have already developed for the Playbook in hopes of BB10 being here soon to increase sales potentials will now just say F it and not work on any more stuff until BB10 stops being VAPORWARE.

**trsbbs** · 06-28-2012, 04:22 PM

For RIM to say this, now, is very suspect. They have an issue or issues. I sense they are problems that have been around for some time. Ones we have heard about, in the background.

The "BTW manner" they announced this is telling. Bury it. Leave no time for questions.

Tim

**Foreverup** · 06-28-2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by trsbbs

For RIM to say this, now, is very suspect. They have an issue or issues. I sense they are problems that have been around for some time. Ones we have heard about, in the background.

The "BTW manner" they announced this is telling. Bury it. Leave no time for questions.

Tim

We'll see if that's true in the Q&A section

**avt123** · 06-28-2012, 04:26 PM

Looks like I'll have to buy my BB10 device full retail now.

**inicophone** · 06-28-2012, 04:28 PM

There must be a serious problem with BB10 for RIM to delay it. I cannot see any other logical reason for them to delay what they have bet everything on.

**madman0141** · 06-28-2012, 04:28 PM

BB10 delayed til 2013.......That freaking sux

**infamyx** · 06-28-2012, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by lnichols

I knew this was going to have an effect on the developers too. It definitely won't help get the big name apps on board. I wonder how many companies that have already developed for the Playbook in hopes of BB10 being here soon to increase sales potentials will now just say F it and not work on any more stuff until BB10 stops being VAPORWARE.

I doubt there was a substantial increase of dev support to begin with. With RIM constantly slipping times and the Playbook essentially a waste of time, there is no reason to burn resources with something that in all honesty seems dead in the water. With the Nexus 7 coming out id say developers on the fence about what to program for just made up their mind.

I'd say RIM has severe problems with their own OS for it to constantly keep getting pushed back. Get it out and as long as it has core functionality and app support they can rapidly update the phone to make it better.

**EGerhardt** · 06-28-2012, 04:37 PM

I still think that it has to be something in the hardware thats beyond RIM's control that's pushed it back. I just can't see them running the Jam sessions when they did if they had any control over it.

Even if there WAS a problem with BB10 as software, I don't think they would delay for it at this point. It would have to totally cripple the device to the point of being unsellable, and that just seems unlikely. Much more likely that whoever is building them has screwed them on something.

I just can't see them voluntarily moving the release date back. They know how close to the edge they are.

Edit -

I agree with DevilDrifter about just getting the OS out the door. I mean, in reality they can lean on the google store for just about everything. Just get BBM, email, texting and phone working, and use android apps, and that would get it out the door.

**addicted44** · 06-28-2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by cgk

So what will you do now? - delay work on the apps? cease work?

Not sure about app_developer, but this is game over for BB for us. Was pushing hard for BB with our funding partners (it helps that India, our target market is still predominantly BB, and more importantly BBM, focused) but now I am dreading going to work tomorrow. Good thing we hadn't wrapped up the website yet, and so haven't started work on the app.

**cgk** · 06-28-2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by EGerhardt

I still think that it has to be something in the hardware thats beyond RIM's control that's pushed it back. I just can't see them running the Jam sessions when they did if they had any control over it.

Even if there WAS a problem with BB10 as software, I don't think they would delay for it at this point. It would have to totally cripple the device to the point of being unsellable, and that just seems unlikely. Much more likely that whoever is building them has screwed them on something.

They explicitly say in the press release that it *is* the software that is the problem -

RIM's software development teams have made major progress in the development of key features for the BlackBerry 10 platform; however, the integration of these features and the associated large volume of code into the platform has proven to be more time consuming than anticipated. As a result, the Company now expects to launch the first BlackBerry 10 smartphones in market in Q1 of calendar 2013.