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  1. newcollector's Avatar
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    Default For those who claim RIM is about to be slain by Apple or Google...

    Just read this article by James Brumley titled "Numbers Don't Lie":

    "Say what you want about Google's (GOOG) Android and Apple's (AAPL) iPhone, and now Microsoft's (MSFT) Mobile Windows 7, chipping away at the BlackBerry's place in the smartphone world. The fact of the matter is Canada's Research in Motion Ltd. (RIMM) has increased annual earnings every year - significantly - since 2005. They were up 30.8% over the last year, and RIM is plausibly priced at only 9.2 times next year's expected earnings."

    Needless to say, I am a happy BB user and investor.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  2. jlb21's Avatar
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    For comparison, it would be nice to know what the same numbers are for Google and Apple.
  3. 1812dave's Avatar
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  4. WillieLee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlb21 View Post
    For comparison, it would be nice to know what the same numbers are for Google and Apple.
    For real comparison, it would be Motorola, HTC, LG, Nokia, Sony Ericcson and the dozens of other manufacturers. Of all of them, only Apple makes more profit than RIM in the smartphone sector.
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    True. Android is not a hardware maker, just an OS providor. "Market Share" for android is highly deceptive, since they don't actually sell hardware (anymore). So split android into all its manufacturers and they all fall way short of RIM and Apple.
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    Anything with a Google name on it, is a sign of an agreement, or partnership. Little by little, Google is riding on the backs of manufacturers.
    I will never understand these "help me to decide" threads. Grow a pair, or put on your big girl panties (whichever applies), and make the decision that works best for you. - AmazinglyGraceless.
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    riding all the way to the top of the smartphone world
    ~Matt
    Nexus 5, Z10 LE, White Lumia 521, 32GB Nook HD+ & 16GB PB, 32 GB Dell Venue 8 Pro
    @howarmat
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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    riding all the way to the top of the smartphone world
    nice way to top things off.
    I will never understand these "help me to decide" threads. Grow a pair, or put on your big girl panties (whichever applies), and make the decision that works best for you. - AmazinglyGraceless.
  9. stuaw11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieLee View Post
    For real comparison, it would be Motorola, HTC, LG, Nokia, Sony Ericcson and the dozens of other manufacturers. Of all of them, only Apple makes more profit than RIM in the smartphone sector.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erievon View Post
    True. Android is not a hardware maker, just an OS providor. "Market Share" for android is highly deceptive, since they don't actually sell hardware (anymore). So split android into all its manufacturers and they all fall way short of RIM and Apple.
    Why split them by manufacturers? Its the platform marketshare being stated. RIM is a platform too, not one device. If you wanted to do that then youd have to analyze each BB model separately too and discount rehashes on phones being the same except the camera and OS. Id bet any one iphone model killed in sales compared to any one model device of another device.

    Just because RIM makes their hardware doesnt mean you automatically consolidate them into one stat with the same 50 phone Android has. Stats are platform based, how many people using that platform, not each device. That'd be irrelevant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuaw11 View Post
    Why split them by manufacturers? Its the platform marketshare being stated. RIM is a platform too, not one device. If you wanted to do that then youd have to analyze each BB model separately too and discount rehashes on phones being the same except the camera and OS. Id bet any one iphone model killed in sales compared to any one model device of another device.

    Just because RIM makes their hardware doesnt mean you automatically consolidate them into one stat with the same 50 phone Android has. Stats are platform based, how many people using that platform, not each device. That'd be irrelevant.
    Your statement makes no sense. RIM is a OS and device. Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc. All make the hardware and farm out for the OS. You cant compare Android to a BB. The stats have been skewd campairing and andriod device to a BB. You need to compare a all samsung devices, or all motorola devices, or all apple devices.
    If you are compairing operating systems. I have no doubt that android will run past apple and bb soon. There are many more devices with that operating system being released, because you have close to a dozen manufacturers at work. Compared to just 2 others. It is the same as comparing PC sales to Apple computer sales. It just doesn't make any sense to release numbers like these. All the other manufacturers are going to android OS instead of their own OS. So you are comparing "apples to oranges".
  11. _StephenBB81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuaw11 View Post
    Why split them by manufacturers? Its the platform marketshare being stated. RIM is a platform too, not one device. If you wanted to do that then youd have to analyze each BB model separately too and discount rehashes on phones being the same except the camera and OS. Id bet any one iphone model killed in sales compared to any one model device of another device.

    Just because RIM makes their hardware doesnt mean you automatically consolidate them into one stat with the same 50 phone Android has. Stats are platform based, how many people using that platform, not each device. That'd be irrelevant.
    because the Article is about Earnings NOT Market share,

    This is one Article your love of Marketshare isn't related too,

    When talking Company Earnings, Google isn't really in the mix since they don't give their earnings from Android, nor do they break out the costs of Android

    BUT Hardware Manufacturers are a little easier to get that information out of based on the breakdown of sales, that is why you'd break each Android Manufacturer out.


    The last line of the OP was
    "I am a happy BB user and investor."

    You can't invest in Android, you must invest in GOOGLE, which is far more than just Android,
    And don't say Apple if far more than iOS devices, because Apple is very much iPhone/ipod touch/iPad Mac Computer sales don't even hold a candle to their mobile sales.
    oops...
    Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. \
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    Quote Originally Posted by deRusett View Post
    because the Article is about Earnings NOT Market share,

    This is one Article your love of Marketshare isn't related too,

    When talking Company Earnings, Google isn't really in the mix since they don't give their earnings from Android, nor do they break out the costs of Android

    BUT Hardware Manufacturers are a little easier to get that information out of based on the breakdown of sales, that is why you'd break each Android Manufacturer out.


    The last line of the OP was
    "I am a happy BB user and investor."

    You can't invest in Android, you must invest in GOOGLE, which is far more than just Android,
    And don't say Apple if far more than iOS devices, because Apple is very much iPhone/ipod touch/iPad Mac Computer sales don't even hold a candle to their mobile sales.
    Yes, just like you can't invest in ms windows, you have to invest in Microsoft. In addition, the percentage of computer sales of apple computers doesn't hold a candle to the percentage of sales of computers from every manufacturer running Windows.
    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    A fanatic is one who won't change his mind...or the subject.
  13. stuaw11's Avatar
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    And what do earnings show unless you are a company employee or stockholder?

    NOTHING!!
  14. i7guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuaw11 View Post
    And what do earnings show unless you are a company employee or stockholder?

    NOTHING!!
    If earnings show nothing, marketshare shows nothing either.

    Do you think I give one thought to how much marketshare a manufacturer has when I make a purchase?
    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    A fanatic is one who won't change his mind...or the subject.
  15. falconeight's Avatar
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    They should have more earning they spend less on research, development, and hardware.
  16. CGI
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    I love my blackberry as a messenging phone. It's the best in that category.

    But I have a Dell Streak for personal use and it does so much more than a blackberry on the internet and media side. No comparison!

    Each has their place.

    But I can see why the average Joe would migrate to Android or Apple.
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    I predict Android will be the most popular smartphone operating system by the end of next year.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  18. _StephenBB81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuaw11 View Post
    And what do earnings show unless you are a company employee or stockholder?

    NOTHING!!
    Well a few of us ARE stockholders

    AND earnings show that people are purchasing your products, and you are showing a sustainable growth for long term investment, you are a consistent earner vs a buy sell stock looking for high risk high return.
    oops...
    Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. \
  19. stuaw11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i7guy View Post
    If earnings show nothing, marketshare shows nothing either.

    Do you think I give one thought to how much marketshare a manufacturer has when I make a purchase?
    I didnt know it was all about you

    Earnings mean nothing to the average consumer. I HIGHLY doubt even one consumer walks into the carrier store and says hmmm which manufacturer I can pick here from had the highest gross profit last quarter

    No, because people, generally, care whats popular (aka marketshare) unless they have a vested interest in the company.

    EDIT*- AGAIN you show your clear personal motive and bias which few here or the public, besides ones that hold self-interests, truly care about.

    Unless all companies are making near similar profit margins per device then that makes zero sense- If a company sells makes more profit per device they can obviously sell less devices and still make more profit overall. Not the case here, but profits dont show devices sold when compared to similar products without knowing margins. Just because you can hock cheap POS product and get a visible return doesnt make you a great company or even truly competitive.

    And furthermore you can still be an earner and yet irrelevant in the marketspace of your type of product.

    But again, none of this matter to anyone but people with vested interest in the company they support. Consumers buy what is popular, their friends have, see something they like, quality of past products, etc. This is loyalty and marketshare (the surveys so many BB fanboys have tried to discredit as irrelevant), clearly not earnings. Not one person I have ever met has bought a smartphone because of the stock price or earnings reports of a manufacturer.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 12-03-2010 at 10:43 PM.
  20. i7guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuaw11 View Post
    I didnt know it was all about you


    And I guess Apple reins supreme then as one of the most profitable of them all. Kind of kills your theory.

    Earnings mean nothing to the average consumer. I seriously doubt even one consumer walks into the carrier store and says hmmm which company had the highest gross profit last quarter

    No, because people, generally, care whats popular (aka marketshare)

    EDIT*- AGAIN you show your clear personal motive and bias which few here, besides ones that hold self-interests, really care about.

    Unless all companies are making near similar profit margins per device then that makes zero sense- If a company sells makes more profit per device they can obviously sell less devices and still make more profit overall. Not the case here, but profits dont show devices sold when compared to similar products without knowing margins.

    And you can be an earner and yet irrelevant in the marketspace of your type of product.
    Apple is profitable but its marketshare isn't anything to write home about. Microsoft kills apple in o/s marketshare. Their marketshare in the smartphone industry is not dominating.

    I do not believe people buy a product due solely to marketshare. And finally there's the old analogy of how many burgers macdonalds sold. Doesn't make them great just popular.

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  21. stuaw11's Avatar
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    We're talking smartphone marketshare, not PC or general.

    As I said its not direclty marketshare % itself, but it does show the "popularity" of the device. Which does in fact drives buyers to products- what their friends have, what people they admire own, etc. This mentality is no secret.

    Problem with the McDonalds analogy is that Apple sells a ton yet still has the highest quality time after time in every study done for 3 years now without deviation. If anyone is McDonalds its RIM throwing 50 different products out there trying to make a profit on large volumes of cheap devices with not too high quality.
    Last edited by stuaw11; 12-03-2010 at 10:49 PM.
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  22. WillieLee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuaw11 View Post
    And what do earnings show unless you are a company employee or stockholder?

    NOTHING!!
    Jeez, do you think if people are talking about earnings they might be shareholders? Again, why do you come into threads about the finances of companies if you aren't interested or have nothing to contribute?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
  23. WillieLee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuaw11 View Post
    I didnt know it was all about you
    Says the guy who comes into a thread about the finances of companies and decides no one is interested in finances.

    Earnings mean nothing to the average consumer. I HIGHLY doubt even one consumer walks into the carrier store and says hmmm which manufacturer I can pick here from had the highest gross profit last quarter
    Here's a handy tip. Next time you see a post that's talking about P/E ratios, realize that you are in the wrong place.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconeight View Post
    They should have more earning they spend less on research, development, and hardware.
    That's not true. As a percentage of revenue, RIM spends more than Apple on R&D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WillieLee View Post
    That's not true. As a percentage of revenue, RIM spends more than Apple on R&D.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    They're either overpaying or they're researching stuff that's locked up at Area51 and we won't see until 2020. Lol


    Oh wait, you said "as a percentage of revenue". Gah, you sneaky fella you.

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