[grahamf]

Thanks.Very interesting comment.I fail to understand MSFT gameplan here.They have Windows 8 on X86, which bascially brings desktop OS to Tablets.

They've had that for DECADES. Problem is, NOBODY wants to use traditional x86 applications on a tablet. It's just too difficult.

So what purpose does it serve to bring out Windows 8 on ARM since X86 apps would not be compatible for ARM.Which basically means Windows is starting at level zero, in fact I could argue it's even behind BB10 since BB10 has 20000 apps.

They've had that for DECADES. Problem is, NOBODY wants to use traditional x86 applications on a tablet. It's just too difficult to poke around those tiny icons with a fat finger.

That's partially where ARM comes in. Using ARM forces developers to make Metro versions of their application, which ARE touchscreen friendly. If they had access to their twenty-year-old legacy code, they would simply do a half-assed effort that bogs down the system and doesn't work as well. Additionally, Intel processors are simply not as power efficient as ARM processors. How many Intel Windows devices are you aware of that get 10 hours of battery life while being the size of an iPad?

What's the reason for Windows 8 on ARM? A new unified OS that will power both Smartphone and Tablets.Can we see a merger of Windows Phone and Windows 8 on ARM at some point??

If answer is yes, Windows is in same serious S**t as BB 10 isn't it.So coming together of these two big guns would make plenty of sense?? But question is coming together on BB10 or coming together on Windows 8??

I never said BB10, I said QNX. They are not the same. BB10 consists primarily of the interface and all visible aspects of the OS, while QNX is a kernel that has been around for a very long time. This kernel is designed to be lightweight, responsive, flexible, and many things that the Windows NT kernel isn't. Most likely Microsoft would build a new kernel using QNX technologies and their existing microkernal projects, and then port the Metro interface and APIs to this new kernel. At this point Microsoft will have an OS that, yes, will run on their mobile phones, tablets, and the Xbox. But you will still be able to buy computers with x86 processors so you can run all of your legacy applications, at least until Microsoft pulls the plug on the compatibility mode.

And like I said, they have sucessfully done this already. If Microsoft took your advice way back when, we would still be running DOS. Do you want that?

[freya09]

I think MS Office integration or better yet RIM's planning to get Skype to BB OS 10 and PlayBook OS...

[blackberryto]

In my opinion, it is not a coincidence that this rumour pops up with BB World around the corner and Nokia announcing pretty bad Q1 results for Lumia globally and Lumia 900 off to a rough start in the US with glitches. Microsoft knows that mobile is the future, and right now they are not a player and virtually non-existant. Microsoft has hitched its mobile prospects to Nokia, which right now is not looking like a good bet. Microsoft deal with Nokia was not exclusive, and I'm sure they are now thinking about other options. And whereas a year ago the RIM mentality was to go it alone, new management has said they are open to partnering. Who knows what the $3.5 billion number is for, but there is something happening here I think.

[Jonny-R]

I think MS Office integration or better yet RIM's planning to get Skype to BB OS 10 and PlayBook OS...

I doubt Microsoft are giving RIM 3.5 billion in order for RIM to get this..

[Sith_Apprentice]

I have seen no compelling arguments for anything other than the three reasons i provided. It would be a very poor decision for Microsoft to "kill off" BB10 with 3.5b, come on now, the OS doesnt even exist yet and I doubt RIM has spent much more than that (possibly much less) developing it over the last 2 years.

Microsoft also wouldn't pay RIM to put Windows OS on to BB phones. If you look at how people react to the BlackBerry hardware, and the fact that RIM is never a "high end" hardware manufacturer this doesn't make sense (also given that Nokia only got 1b).

This investment, if its even true, would be for something RIM has that is unique. Likely the NOC/Enterprise architecture or patents. Nothing else makes sense.

[undone]

Feel free to offer your definition of "patent troll," as the general one below doesn't seem to fit.

Patent troll is a pejorative term used for a person or company who buys and enforces patents against one or more alleged infringers in a manner considered by the target or observers as unduly aggressive or opportunistic, often with no intention to further develop, manufacture or market the patented invention.

Tho that definition is right, the word used was trolling which (to me) more implies a fishing definition. Like: They were trolling the ocean floor. As in trying to get an easy catch without a lot of work.

[sam_b77]

lol, you sound like a scorned lover....I can make the same exact argument regarding RIMM and the way they handled success (ignoring innovation(C) iphone, and expecting their loyal customers to purchase their horrible products (c) storm)...

LOL....my post was more of an example of the hyperbole to the person who said MS was a devil. Personally, I don't think either of them are devils. They are just companies which are run for profit and should do everything they can to capture market share and keep competitors down.

It was mostly a tongue in cheek comment.

[sam_b77]

Feel free to offer your definition of "patent troll," as the general one below doesn't seem to fit.

Patent troll is a pejorative term used for a person or company who buys and enforces patents against one or more alleged infringers in a manner considered by the target or observers as unduly aggressive or opportunistic, often with no intention to further develop, manufacture or market the patented invention.

You missed the sarcasm in my post .

[brucep1]

Tho that definition is right, the word used was trolling which (to me) more implies a fishing definition. Like: They were trolling the ocean floor. As in trying to get an easy catch without a lot of work.

I think he was confused because you made up your own definition of the term.

[Sith_Apprentice]

Actually it isnt a made up definition at all.

Trolling - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Any now back to your regularly scheduled debate.

[sam_b77]

@GrahamF and Purijagmohan,
Interesting discussion guys. From Puri's comment I understand that Windows 8 on Arm won't be running the x86 apps.

I understand gerahams explanation, but wouldn't it be counterproductive in that case. The whole point of a uniform OS on tablet should be that the same programs should work. For example the killer execution of Window 8 can be something like the Transformer. Stick it on to a keyboard and switch to Win8 desktop. Take the screen out and use the metro interface as touch friendly. However when I do put it onto a keyboard dock, I would like to have the ability to run Photshop or autocad. Let x86 programs have a dual UI. One on Windows 8 desktop and one on Windows 8 metro. Switches automatically.

So by not supporting x86 programs on Arm, isn't MS missing a beat?

[Sith_Apprentice]

I dont believe its nearly as simple as a new UI for ARM vs x86. It would have to be a complete rewrite from my understanding (or at least a major one), to convince companies to dual develop would be a very hard sell, even for Microsoft.

[brucep1]

Actually it isnt a made up definition at all.

Trolling - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Any now back to your regularly scheduled debate.

Yes, that would be the case if he was referring to just trolling. But here, the term was "Patent Trolling", which the definition can be found here.

Patent Troll Definition | Investopedia

The entire term matters, not just one word. For example, if I said America, that would be infered as the United States. But if I put a "South" in front of it, it refers to a completely different area.

[Sith_Apprentice]

Yes, that would be the case if he was referring to just trolling. But here, the term was "Patent Trolling", which the definition can be found here.

Patent Troll Definition | Investopedia

The entire term matters, not just one word. For example, if I said America, that would be infered as the United States. But if I put a "South" in front of it, it refers to a completely different area.

I must have only caught the second half of the explanation where the poster said trolling as in fishing, then of course the post about made up terms. My apologies on that.

However the last part is blasphemy! You mean there are other places in the world besides the United States /sarcarsm

[dadathepanda]

if good ol' Microsoft invests in RIM, it is the end of RIM. They will bring their way of business to RIM and BB10 will turn out to be something as hideous as Microsoft's mobile platform.

[ubizmo]

This investment, if its even true, would be for something RIM has that is unique. Likely the NOC/Enterprise architecture or patents. Nothing else makes sense.

This would be my guess too. The ultimate goal would be to enhance WP by absorbing the most advantageous aspects of BB.

[aha]

Interesting rumour, Nokia only got $1B

Skype was $8.5B to buy out.

[grahamf]

@GrahamF and Purijagmohan,
Interesting discussion guys. From Puri's comment I understand that Windows 8 on Arm won't be running the x86 apps.

I understand gerahams explanation, but wouldn't it be counterproductive in that case. The whole point of a uniform OS on tablet should be that the same programs should work. For example the killer execution of Window 8 can be something like the Transformer. Stick it on to a keyboard and switch to Win8 desktop. Take the screen out and use the metro interface as touch friendly. However when I do put it onto a keyboard dock, I would like to have the ability to run Photshop or autocad. Let x86 programs have a dual UI. One on Windows 8 desktop and one on Windows 8 metro. Switches automatically.

So by not supporting x86 programs on Arm, isn't MS missing a beat?

I think it's all to plan.

Aside from the fact that you'd need a x86-to-ARM translater (think Apple's Rosetta) and the applications would bog down the tinier ARM system, Microsoft is trying to move away from their current lineup and to a new platform. This requires encouraging developers to program for this environment, which means that there must be devices that cannot run the older programs. But Microsoft cannot do this to their entire userbase. If windows on Intel could not run applications such as PhotoShop, Windows 8 would be a complete failure.

I believe Microsoft is in the process of completely rewriting Windows for the Post-PC world, and this is just one part of a many-year (possibly a decade or so) plan to eliminate legacy applications. At this point the objective is to maintain some compatibility, but encourage new programs to be written in an OS-agnostic form. Once the new fully rebuilt OS is out, Microsof may start coming out with more native application developer kit.

Only time will tell, but things are definitely going to change.

[undone]

Yes, that would be the case if he was referring to just trolling. But here, the term was "Patent Trolling", which the definition can be found here.

Patent Troll Definition | Investopedia

The entire term matters, not just one word. For example, if I said America, that would be infered as the United States. But if I put a "South" in front of it, it refers to a completely different area.

Patent Trolling and Patent Troll seem to imply different categories of well Trolls...lol. If you have a legal department that is regularly looking or searching for patent infringement is it not Patent Trolling? Personally I see trolling as a fishing term and Troll as something under a bridge.

And he was being sarcastic...

[Brianflys]

Patent Trolling and Patent Troll...

Could you please move your troll definition debate to another thread? We thank you.

[kingbernie06511]

probably Bing search engine default (its not bad on playbook actually), Bing maps and WP7 music store + video and Silverlight. In exchange, MS gets Fusion integration, BBM, whereas RIM gets Skype + Office.

[kingbernie06511]

it must be rumor (fake) only as nothing has materialized yet.

[Sith_Apprentice]

probably Bing search engine default (its not bad on playbook actually), Bing maps and WP7 music store + video and Silverlight. In exchange, MS gets Fusion integration, BBM, whereas RIM gets Skype + Office.

MS gets Fusion integration? They wouldnt have to pay for that, they have to open the APIs to allow their devices to be managed. RIM and Microsoft already have an agreement about Bing being the default search engine (happened at WES 2010 i believe).

[Economist101]

Patent Trolling and Patent Troll seem to imply different categories of well Trolls...lol.

Where by "different categories" you mean "one is a verb and the other a noun."

If you have a legal department that is regularly looking or searching for patent infringement is it not Patent Trolling?

No, it's not. "Patent trolling" really applies to companies whose primary revenue source is to gain revenue through patent infringement claims. It generally is not used to describe companies who aren't attempting to gain revenue from patents and/or are not using alleged infringement as a primary source of revenue.

Personally I see trolling as a fishing term and Troll as something under a bridge.

Well then, I guess that settles it.

And he was being sarcastic...

Then let it go.

[Vindicators]

I never said BB10, I said QNX. They are not the same. BB10 consists primarily of the interface and all visible aspects of the OS, while QNX is a kernel that has been around for a very long time. This kernel is designed to be lightweight, responsive, flexible, and many things that the Windows NT kernel isn't. Most likely Microsoft would build a new kernel using QNX technologies and their existing microkernal projects, and then port the Metro interface and APIs to this new kernel. At this point Microsoft will have an OS that, yes, will run on their mobile phones, tablets, and the Xbox. But you will still be able to buy computers with x86 processors so you can run all of your legacy applications, at least until Microsoft pulls the plug on the compatibility mode.

I don't think that make any sense at all.

Microsoft currently want to move WP to NT, maybe the nextgen Xbox also run with a NT kernel. So they will have all of product line under the same kernel and a single, modern, unified Windows API, easier to maintain. Just like what Apple done with their OSX, iOS and Apple TV.
This way, metro/winrt also can easily to port between x86 pc, arm tablet and phone environments.

Why would they abandon their stable, advanced kernel that they develop for a decade and already have everything like .Net, DirectX, WinRT, NTFS on it, port anything to another platform and keep development for both at the same time?

Beside WinCE which is a lightweight, flexible kernel running in embedded systems for years, if they need another RTOS to do such things like control I/O, they always can buy Lynux or QNX from years ago. But I don't think it will fit in their ecosystem.
Not to mention their WP7 already running great on low spec hardware, the next version even lower spec requirement to 256MB RAM.

NT is way more value to Microsoft than a CLI-based RTOS that rarely see daylight in GUI environment.