RIM’s global empire shows cracks in key market, India

**GoJaysGo** · 03-13-2013, 06:51 AM

Interesting article in the Globe and Mail:

RIM

**jrohland** · 03-13-2013, 07:00 AM

That article looks like it was written using analysis from 6 months ago. If the author can't even get the company name right (yes I know it is still unofficial because the board hasn't voted on it), it is hard to take anything seriously.

**GoJaysGo** · 03-13-2013, 07:12 AM

So because the writer is using the current correct company name and you don't like a negative RIM article, it has be a miss-informed article.

I just installed BES 10, and it says, RIM all over it, so I guess I should uninstall it.

All the buildings in Waterloo that say RIM, I should roll my eyes in disgust. I guess I should no longer go to RIM Park in Waterloo either.

Maybe somebody should organize a demonstration outside of all the RIM buildings in Waterloo with signs and they can march up and down the streets. The signs can read "It's not RIM it's BlackBerry, please change the signs." "Heck, no, RIM must go! It's Blackberry or Death." You know something like that.

**jojo beaconsfield** · 03-13-2013, 07:13 AM

if thier offices are half full i bet they got a bigger one in anticipation of increased sales

**qbnkelt** · 03-13-2013, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by GoJaysGo

So because the writer is using the current correct company name and you don't like a negative RIM article, it has be a miss-informed article.

I just installed BES 10, and it says, RIM all over it, so I guess I should uninstall it.

All the buildings in Waterloo that say RIM, I should roll my eyes in disgust. I guess I should no longer go to RIM Park in Waterloo either.

Maybe somebody should organize a demonstration outside of all the RIM buildings in Waterloo with signs and they can march up and down the streets. The signs can read "It's not RIM it's BlackBerry, please change the signs." "Heck, no, RIM must go! It's Blackberry or Death." You know something like that.

HUGE overreaction to criticism of the article, don't you think?

A writer should at the very least get the company name right, it's part of his/her job.

Branding change has already begun and it's well on its way in the company buildings.

Legacy software will continue to have the old name.

If you can't handle criticism to the article you post, why bother posting it? Were you expecting wholesale agreement with its writer? You will be sad to know that posters here tear articles such as this to pieces, and rightly so.

**GoJaysGo** · 03-13-2013, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by qbnkelt

Legacy software will continue to have the old name.

If you can't handle criticism to the article you post, why bother posting it? Were you expecting wholesale agreement with its writer? You will be sad to know that posters here tear articles such as this to pieces, and rightly so.

BES10 is hardly legacy software. Actually, if you've used it, it is a dog's breakfast (But that's a different story). The name RIM has been in the fabric of southern Ontario (Kitchener/Waterloo) for decades, and people are still going to call it RIM, regardless of what the company decides to change the name to. It will probably take several years for that to change. People on these forum's are quick to jump on people that still say RIM.

**undone** · 03-13-2013, 07:32 AM

Another looking in the rear view mirror article, stating things that are known (no really new devices in 2012, BlackBerry is moving away from the low end segment and Samsung (lol not google) Apple have dominated). At the end the of the day its all about sales numbers for 2013. The past is only relevant if you keep doing the same thing over and over. BlackBerry has made a compelling product that people are buying, they have ramped up production levels, selling out, and have issued no pre-quarterly negatives. All indication are that they are doing well.

**sam_b77** · 03-13-2013, 07:36 AM

It seems the author got his research done by reading the Internet. I'm in India and I'm rich and so are my friends and none of them have bought an iDevice. We all rock BlackBerry's. Some of them are using OS7 devices and some 6. I and another friend are the early switchers to the BB10 the rest of them are waiting for the Q10. what the author forgets is that the rich are usually well informed and they knew about the BB10. So they waited for it. That's why the top end BB sales slumped. The Z10 vanished from the shelves. Even BB underestimated the pent up demand.

**Madness87** · 03-13-2013, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by sam_b77

It seems the author got his research done by reading the Internet. I'm in India and I'm rich and so are my friends and none of them have bought an iDevice. We all rock BlackBerry's. Some of them are using OS7 devices and some 6. I and another friend are the early switchers to the BB10 the rest of them are waiting for the Q10. what the author forgets is that the rich are usually well informed and they knew about the BB10. So they waited for it. That's why the top end BB sales slumped. The Z10 vanished from the shelves. Even BB underestimated the pent up demand.

And you are basing your own views on anecdotal evidence. Just 4 days ago, I was in India for well over 3+ months. The only BlackBerry devices I saw were old Curves or maybe once I saw a 9900. Otherwise, everyone either had an iPhone, some type of Galaxy device (GSII, GSIII, Y duos) etc.

Not saying that's the norm, but they need to market BlackBerry much better in India, especially with the upcoming launches of the HTC One and Galaxy SIV. I think the Q10 will be a MAJOR success in India because of the affinity for a lot of people to do a lot of texting/email, so they need to market it well.

**qbnkelt** · 03-13-2013, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by GoJaysGo

BES10 is hardly legacy software. Actually, if you've used it, it is a dog's breakfast (But that's a different story). The name RIM has been in the fabric of southern Ontario (Kitchener/Waterloo) for decades, and people are still going to call it RIM, regardless of what the company decides to change the name to. It will probably take several years for that to change. People on these forum's are quick to jump on people that still say RIM.

BES10 was published before the announcement that the company changed its name.
THIS article, published on March 13th, was written following the presentation and the announcement that the company had changed its name. Any responsible journalist or blogger would conduct the appropriate research. As to what people here do when referencing legacy RIM, it is their prerogative to react as they see fit based on the appropriate circumstances. Most of them are not bloggers. Writers, whose jobs depend on the accuracy of their articles, have an obligation to get their facts straight. The article is hopelessly flawed, contains not much matter and much rehashed fluff easily found by doing queries on the web. At that rate, any one of us on CB could have written a much more substantive article.
As far as a dog's breakfast, you are correct, that is another issue. NOt sure what that means, actually, my dogs are always very happy to get theirs.

**Sith_Apprentice** · 03-13-2013, 07:47 AM

BlackBerry's initial shipment of Z10s sold out in India in 2 days and had to have an emergency shipment sent. I would say they are getting the word out. Could they do better? Yes absolutely, you can always do a better job of marketing.

**jrohland** · 03-13-2013, 07:48 AM

The article and the OP appear to share a common trait, a desire to see BlackBerry fail. I am very interested in how BlackBerry is doing in India. Since BlackBerry is holding their cards close to the vest just now, the only way to get data that is through ground truthing. It seems obvious to me the author did none of that hard work.

**Sith_Apprentice** · 03-13-2013, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by qbnkelt

BES10 was published before the announcement that the company changed its name.
THIS article, published on March 13th, was written following the presentation and the announcement that the company had changed its name. Any responsible journalist or blogger would conduct the appropriate research. As to what people here do when referencing legacy RIM, it is their prerogative to react as they see fit based on the appropriate circumstances. Most of them are not bloggers. Writers, whose jobs depend on the accuracy of their articles, have an obligation to get their facts straight. The article is hopelessly flawed, contains not much matter and much rehashed fluff easily found by doing queries on the web. At that rate, any one of us on CB could have written a much more substantive article.
As far as a dog's breakfast, you are correct, that is another issue. NOt sure what that means, actually, my dogs are always very happy to get theirs.

I just gave mine baked chicken this morning. Same thing I had for dinner last night, they were quite pleased.

BTW, newer versions of the software reference BlackBerry along side of the Research in Motion name.

**Madness87** · 03-13-2013, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice

BlackBerry's initial shipment of Z10s sold out in India in 2 days and had to have an emergency shipment sent. I would say they are getting the word out. Could they do better? Yes absolutely, you can always do a better job of marketing.

What does that even mean? The iPhone 5 was sold out in almost all of India in 24 hours. You couldn't find one for days. That's irrelevant because there is no set number on what constitutes a sellout. If BlackBerry sold out of 2 million Z10's in two days, and Apple sold out of 1 million iPhone 5's in 24 hours, what's better?

I visited some of the most high end shops in Delhi, was at conferences at the Marriot, I didn't see a single Z10, nor did I see it advertised or promoted anywhere. I did see millions of ads and billboards for a ****ty Samsung Galaxy Grand or a MicroMax knockoff phone. I think the only time I saw a Z10 advertised was at IGI Airport at the electronics shop on my way home.

Look, fans of BlackBerry will always buy the phone, I bought my Z10 as soon as I got back to Canada, it's the non-fans and the everyday people you need to get to buy the phone.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2...-out-in-india/

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/news...ays-ceo-339830

See the difference is, we never know real sales figures.

**Cozz4ever** · 03-13-2013, 07:56 AM

This article is from like 3-6 months ago. Why is it being published now. Even the data info is from months ago. This is pre Z10.

**Sith_Apprentice** · 03-13-2013, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Madness87

What does that even mean? The iPhone 5 was sold out in almost all of India in 24 hours. You couldn't find one for days. That's irrelevant because there is no set number on what constitutes a sellout. If BlackBerry sold out of 2 million Z10's in two days, and Apple sold out of 1 million iPhone 5's in 24 hours, what's better?

I visited some of the most high end shops in Delhi, was at conferences at the Marriot, I didn't see a single Z10, nor did I see it advertised or promoted anywhere. I did see millions of ads and billboards for a ****ty Samsung Galaxy Grand or a MicroMax knockoff phone. I think the only time I saw a Z10 advertised was at IGI Airport at the electronics shop on my way home.

Look, fans of BlackBerry will always buy the phone, I bought my Z10 as soon as I got back to Canada, it's the non-fans and the everyday people you need to get to buy the phone.

iPhone 5 Sells Out in India - India Real Time - WSJ

BlackBerry Z10 sold out in India within 2 days: CEO | NDTV Gadgets

See the difference is, we never know real sales figures.

They arent going to release sales figures prior to the earnings call that is slated for later this month. It is too close to one another. If you also read, ~ 33% of UK Z10 purchases were moving from other devices, ~50% of canadian, and ~40% of Indian purchasers. These are all VERY good metrics for BB. Yes, 1/3 or 1000 devices is only 300, but the fact that the percentages are high, and relatively stable across several major markets is a good thing.

**sam_b77** · 03-13-2013, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Madness87

And you are basing your own views on anecdotal evidence. Just 4 days ago, I was in India for well over 3+ months. The only BlackBerry devices I saw were old Curves or maybe once I saw a 9900. Otherwise, everyone either had an iPhone, some type of Galaxy device (GSII, GSIII, Y duos) etc.

Not saying that's the norm, but they need to market BlackBerry much better in India, especially with the upcoming launches of the HTC One and Galaxy SIV. I think the Q10 will be a MAJOR success in India because of the affinity for a lot of people to do a lot of texting/email, so they need to market it well.

I'm not giving any evidence. Far from it. All I did was counter the Author's research which quoted some guy as saying that if Indians have $800 they will buy the iPhone, if they are nerdy then will buy the Android premium phones otherwise if they don't have enough to eat then they will buy the local budget Androids. Hence implying BB is somehow irrelevant.
I'm only giving evidence to the extent that I'm a rich Indian who bought a Z10 instead of the iPhone5. And I know similarly rich Indians who are buying the Z10 or are waiting for the Q10.

**undone** · 03-13-2013, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Madness87

Look, fans of BlackBerry will always buy the phone, I bought my Z10 as soon as I got back to Canada, it's the non-fans and the everyday people you need to get to buy the phone.

Actually I would counter they are building a phone for a specific purpose, not the 'For everyone' phone. That was one of the messages HT really focused on pre-BB10. As long as they continue to target businesses and business people, and push the ability to separate business and non-business on one device you will see an uptick on there market share.

The real illusion is that people need smart phones....

**BBZ10wannabe** · 03-13-2013, 08:15 AM

"Heck, no, RIM must go! Okay, I'm a fan of BBRY but I admit this made me snicker..

**Jimberry Storm** · 03-13-2013, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by GoJaysGo

So because the writer is using the current correct company name and you don't like a negative RIM article, it has be a

All the buildings in Waterloo that say RIM, I should roll my eyes in disgust. I guess I should no longer go to .

Speaking form only myself, when I see a fact incorrect in any article I have to wonder what other facts are incorrect. Not to mention no one lies on the iternet.

**allengeorge** · 03-13-2013, 08:40 AM

Simply because RIM isn't lauded in this article doesn't make it "bad", "inaccurate" or "biased". People have been warning about this possibility for a long time - that North American smartphone-purchasing behaviour would percolate to other markets around the world. Why is it so surprising to see this happen?

**Sqoon** · 03-13-2013, 08:41 AM

Isn't this exact same use of anecdotal evidence?

Originally Posted by Madness87

And you are basing your own views on anecdotal evidence. Just 4 days ago, I was in India for well over 3+ months. The only BlackBerry devices I saw were old Curves or maybe once I saw a 9900. Otherwise, everyone either had an iPhone, some type of Galaxy device (GSII, GSIII, Y duos) etc.

Not saying that's the norm, but they need to market BlackBerry much better in India, especially with the upcoming launches of the HTC One and Galaxy SIV. I think the Q10 will be a MAJOR success in India because of the affinity for a lot of people to do a lot of texting/email, so they need to market it well.

Posted via CB10

**Homo Erectus** · 03-13-2013, 08:55 AM

This anylisis could not count to 5 bunch of bs

Posted via CB10

**joe.miller** · 03-13-2013, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by qbnkelt

A writer should at the very least get the company name right, it's part of his/her job.

He did get it right. Legally, the company's name is still Research In Motion, and will be until shareholders vote on the change.

**si_chindo** · 03-13-2013, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by sam_b77

I'm not giving any evidence. Far from it. All I did was counter the Author's research which quoted some guy as saying that if Indians have $800 they will buy the iPhone, if they are nerdy then will buy the Android premium phones otherwise if they don't have enough to eat then they will buy the local budget Androids. Hence implying BB is somehow irrelevant.
I'm only giving evidence to the extent that I'm a rich Indian who bought a Z10 instead of the iPhone5. And I know similarly rich Indians who are buying the Z10 or are waiting for the Q10.

I am from Indonesia and I imagine the market to be quite similar. If anything, the lower income individuals will tend to buy a blackberry because of BBM and the relatively cheap messaging plans available.