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  1. timmy t's Avatar
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    Default RIM outsourcing Canadian jobs

    As a shareholder in RIM, I was disappointed to learn that RIM is outsourcing its Canadian accounting jobs to India. I was hoping for more from Thorsten.
  2. yabanumay's Avatar
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    Default RIM outsourcing Canadian jobs

    The company is trying to survive. So i wouldn't count it against them at this point in time. Btw i also am a shareholder
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  3. BaconMunch's Avatar
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    Part of their 1 billion dollar cost restructuring plan...
  4. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    That's like saying you're upset some of their device components are made in China and not wholly in Canada. As a shareholder, you should be able recognize that's a cost saving measure and take it for what it is. I'd rather see them outsource and reduce costs in an effort to remain relevant then burn through more cash then they need to.
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    You're a shareholder.

    Cheaper labour = cost savings = at the end of the day, value for shareholders.

    RIM is trying to cut $1 Billion in costs, and get these phones out on the market while preserving as much cash balance as they can; all important to increasing the share price of the company.

    ....So why/how are you mad. Unless you work at RIM HQ in Waterloo.
    Last edited by jenks5150; 11-16-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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  6. cgk
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    Default RE: RIM outsourcing Canadian jobs

    This is why the idea of loyalty to any of these faceless corporations is stupid.
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    Get use to it cause its happening everywhere.
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    Really.. They are surviving (pre BB 10) due to the cost cutting. And outsourcing is a part of corporate life. I just got back from India.
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    I'm not surprised if I could pay an accountant 10 dollars and hour compare to an accountant in Canada that's getting 120 hours sure why not. However, the devices should be much cheaper buit thats just a dream . hahaha
  10. timmy t's Avatar
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    Well my experience in dealing with IT people in India is you get what you pay for.
    But furthermore, what is the point in making phones cheaper if no one in the developed world can afford them because their jobs are all gone or their wages have been slashed.
    I think RIM can survive and pay decent wages in Canada for existing jobs.
    If Canadian companies cannot survive while paying good wages, then our entire economy will collapse.
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  11. exrimemployee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcsemcp View Post
    I'm not surprised if I could pay an accountant 10 dollars and hour compare to an accountant in Canada that's getting 120 hours sure why not. However, the devices should be much cheaper buit thats just a dream . hahaha
    As an ex Rim employee I don't understand the sense in outsourcing full time jobs who worked many hours of unpaid overtime to on site contractors doing the same job at a high rate of $100 to $125 an hour.
  12. timmy t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenks5150 View Post
    You're a shareholder.

    Cheaper labour = cost savings = at the end of the day, value for shareholders.

    RIM is trying to cut $1 Billion in costs, and get these phones out on the market while preserving as much cash balance as they can; all important to increasing the share price of the company.

    ....So why/how are you mad. Unless you work at RIM HQ in Waterloo.

    I am an ethical investor and I also believe this destruction of the Canadian and American middle class will cause a permanent recession or worse.
    Do you think the middle class will continue to buy $600 smart phones, 55" HDTVs, $30,000.00 automobiles and $70/month cell phone packages while their incomes are slashed or do not mach inflation.
    Obviously, when recessions occur, the purchases of discretionary goods goes down and those companies suffer greatly. Look at the auto industry as an example.
    I think the same will happen with smartphones. Who making low wages is going to buy a new smartphone every 2 years when they can't afford their mortgage or decent clothes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    Well my experience in dealing with IT people in India is you get what you pay for.
    But furthermore, what is the point in making phones cheaper if no one in the developed world can afford them because their jobs are all gone or their wages have been slashed.
    I think RIM can survive and pay decent wages in Canada for existing jobs.
    If Canadian companies cannot survive while paying good wages, then our entire economy will collapse.
    Yep, all you have to do is look south. It's a mess and continues to get worse. Blame our governments and tax laws.
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  14. jenks5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    I am an ethical investor and I also believe this destruction of the Canadian and American middle class will cause a permanent recession or worse.
    Do you think the middle class will continue to buy $600 smart phones, 55" HDTVs, $30,000.00 automobiles and $70/month cell phone packages while their incomes are slashed or do not mach inflation.
    Obviously, when recessions occur, the purchases of discretionary goods goes down and those companies suffer greatly. Look at the auto industry as an example.
    I think the same will happen with smartphones. Who making low wages is going to buy a new smartphone every 2 years when they can't afford their mortgage or decent clothes.
    I'm certainly not debating the negative effect that losing jobs in Canada to overseas has on our economy. What I was remarking on is that as a RIM shareholder, it is likely in your best interest that RIM outsource jobs to India. All ethics aside.
    Remember to RTFM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    As a shareholder in RIM, I was disappointed to learn that RIM is outsourcing its Canadian accounting jobs to India. I was hoping for more from Thorsten.
    And lots of Canadians walk around with iPhones even though RIM employs a lot of Canadians and Apple doesn't.
  16. Homo Erectus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exrimemployee View Post
    As an ex Rim employee I don't understand the sense in outsourcing full time jobs who worked many hours of unpaid overtime to on site contractors doing the same job at a high rate of $100 to $125 an hour.
    I'm talking about outsourcing for cheaper labor
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    dude, where are your sources???
  18. timmy t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenks5150 View Post
    I'm certainly not debating the negative effect that losing jobs in Canada to overseas has on our economy. What I was remarking on is that as a RIM shareholder, it is likely in your best interest that RIM outsource jobs to India. All ethics aside.
    If BB10 is a big hit, these savings will be peanuts. And as I said, saving $10 million and then losing $50 million in profits due to less sales is not good for me as a shareholder.
    You can't just say you will offshore your jobs and nobody else will. It is the entire NA corporate entity who is killing off the North American consumer.
    And that ain't good. RIM is part of this NA corporate culture that is contributing to this killing off of the North American consumer who it seems to think is so important to its survival.
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    If RIM did not cut any expenses in the short term, they would just bleed themselves dry; resulting in no jobs for the wonderful people of Canada. Sometimes you have to sacrifice in the short term, in order to benefit Canadians in the long term.
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  20. timmy t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluetroll View Post
    dude, where are your sources???
    If you are talking to me, let's just say a know someone who knows someone who is directly affected and I am 100% sure of what I am saying.
  21. trsbbs's Avatar
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    Default RIM outsourcing Canadian jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    That's like saying you're upset some of their device components are made in China and not wholly in Canada. As a shareholder, you should be able recognize that's a cost saving measure and take it for what it is. I'd rather see them outsource and reduce costs in an effort to remain relevant then burn through more cash then they need to.
    Until its your job that gets outsourced.

    Disgraceful of RIM.

    Tim



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  22. jenks5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    If BB10 is a big hit, these savings will be peanuts.
    That is a gargantuan and irresponsible if. Imagine a scenario where BB10 doesn't fan out and RIM fails. If the board sees that they did not follow through on their cost-cutting CORE program...what is an acceptable answer going to be? "Yeah we didn't totally finish it but...but we assumed that BB10 was going to sell millions and it wouldn't have been an issue!"

    That's not the way it works in the business world.

    And as I said, saving $10 million and then losing $50 million in profits due to less sales is not good for me as a shareholder.
    How would RIM lose $50 Million in profits by outsourcing accounting jobs to lower-cost India? I don't follow you on that one. Lower costs for selling the same product = more profit.
    Remember to RTFM.
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  23. Masahiro's Avatar
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    Ultimately India is a far more loyal customer for RIM at the moment than NA. Whatever sales, although most likely miniscule since most consumers don't care about where their products come from, they may lose here due to "ethics" they'd make up for in India.
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  24. GTiLeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    I am an ethical investor and I also believe this destruction of the Canadian and American middle class will cause a permanent recession or worse.
    Do you think the middle class will continue to buy $600 smart phones, 55" HDTVs, $30,000.00 automobiles and $70/month cell phone packages while their incomes are slashed or do not mach inflation.
    Obviously, when recessions occur, the purchases of discretionary goods goes down and those companies suffer greatly. Look at the auto industry as an example.
    I think the same will happen with smartphones. Who making low wages is going to buy a new smartphone every 2 years when they can't afford their mortgage or decent clothes.
    when it comes to business and money ethics are thrown out the window, everyone will do what they can to save or make an extra penny,every human does it no matter what their ethics.
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  25. mcmolineux's Avatar
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    I was wondering why the stock spiked this afternoon. I was hoping it was for some BB10 excitement, but unfortunately this is probably the answer.
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