Is RIM in full scale collapse?

**jd914** · 04-21-2012, 11:10 AM

According to this guy, RIM is one of three companies in full scale collapse.

These Three Companies Are In 'Full Scale Collapse' And Are Never Going To Recover

WHITNEY TILSON: These Three Companies Are In 'Full Scale Collapse' - Business Insider

**mrfreetruth** · 04-21-2012, 11:32 AM

It's nice to see the masses believing this nonsense as it tells me they are dead wrong about Rim's future. The SP is at rock bottom and everyone is scared to buy which is another plus. Even this fanboy site is filled with bashers and negative comments. RIM and Microsoft partnership would be a powerhouse. Who knows what we will see finalized from the law firm rim just hired. RIM in full scale collapse as users went from 55 million users last year to 77million and growing this year. I doubt the media would ever lie to the masses.

**russworman** · 04-21-2012, 11:34 AM

I'd say this is speculation at best... This guy has no inside knowledge of the company he claims is in full-scale collapse and doesn't provide supporting details in his statement. Outside the USA RIMM is still doing well and in some markets they are expanding. This guy was probably one who thought Chrysler was dead in 2009 no matter what they did... RIMM is nowhere near bankruptcy or financial troubles unless OS10 is a huge failure...

**berrydroidapple** · 04-21-2012, 11:55 AM

Sounds like someone needed to get paid for an article, and at the last minute went for the easy way out.

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**alnamvet68** · 04-21-2012, 11:55 AM

I don't put much stock in this character, especially since he is a graduate of the Standford University Marshmallow Experiment. Talk about living a life of perpetual denial and deferred gratification.

**BearSnout** · 04-21-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by kevinneworleans313

Sounds like someone needed to get paid for an article, and at the last minute went for the easy way out.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8530 using Tapatalk

You got it!

**ayekon** · 04-21-2012, 12:17 PM

The media? Lie to the masses?

Never gonna happen...

**berklon** · 04-21-2012, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by russworman

RIMM is nowhere near bankruptcy or financial troubles unless OS10 is a huge failure...

At this very late stage in the game, If OS10 doesn't offer anything revolutionary (and something the competition doesn't have) - then it'll be a failure.

**playbookster** · 04-21-2012, 12:44 PM

Another day another stupid opinion piece on how RIM is dying yet continues to be here. They will still be writing these 5 years from now.

**doc-hill** · 04-21-2012, 12:53 PM

In the Netherlands we would give you advice to take "youre urine to the doctor" for spreading bull...

cheers....

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**TGR1** · 04-21-2012, 01:18 PM

It is possible though none of us here, including those pooh-poohing the report, know enough to state definitively. However, it is true that Nokia and RIM, in the highly competitive mobile sector, have not showed *overall* good trends recently despite some regional strengths. Of note is that both Nokia and RIM have buttressed their sales by cutting prices and so far their flagship products have not sold as well as could be hoped. In RIM's case, they are also betting the farm on an unknown in BB10.

"Full scale collapse"? I can't say if it is that dramatic but IMO the end result may be the same: odds are bad for either Nokia or RIM to stay independent and/or a major player in a very unforgiving market.

**berrydroidapple** · 04-21-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by TGR1

It is possible though none of us here, including those pooh-poohing the report, know enough to state definitively. However, it is true that Nokia and RIM, in the highly competitive mobile sector, have not showed *overall* good trends recently despite some regional strengths. Of note is that both Nokia and RIM have buttressed their sales by cutting prices and so far their flagship products have not sold as well as could be hoped. In RIM's case, they are also betting the farm on an unknown in BB10.

"Full scale collapse"? I can't say if it is that dramatic but IMO the end result may be the same: odds are bad for either Nokia or RIM to stay independent and/or a major player in a very unforgiving market.

My point was the "RIM in Full scale collapse" bit, we all know RIM has it's challenges ahead and there's a possibility it will not stay independent, but "Full Scale Collapse"??? Somewhat like those tabloids in the grocery store aisle.

**kb5zht** · 04-21-2012, 01:51 PM

I'm curious.... Are all the prophets on wall street that predict rim's collapse shorting rimm's stock or buying put options??? Just saying.... If they know this for sure are they putting their money where their mouth is and preparing to cash in?

As a follower of Warren Buffett, I'm inclined to believe this is a call to buy long and buy big... If this many wall street types are all singing this one tune, you can be sure they are all wrong.

**morganplus8** · 04-21-2012, 02:10 PM

How ridiculous is that statment? LOL

Apple had legions of consumers waiting for iPhone 5 at a time when BB's latest iteration of BB phones was growing long in the tooth. BB delayed their refresh cycle by 6 months and left the window open for the competition to rush in. When you don't market your product and others do, you lose market share. Now we are mistaking a product refresh with wholesale collapses in the company! I have never in all of my business career, read anything so stupid.

RIM has plenty left in the gas tank, they are about to correct an error with their Playbook and they are single handedly launching an entirely new OS system on a new line of hand held phones. That's the biggest refresh any company can ever go through and it is happening within weeks and months starting in May.

Let's hope the media gets back on track when RIM provides phones that people want while Apple saturation lives them on the downside of life.

**TheScionicMan** · 04-21-2012, 02:11 PM

Based on post history, I'm sure the OP is gleefully hoping this will happen...

**russworman** · 04-21-2012, 02:18 PM

Let's not forget where Apple was in 1997... They lost more cash and had less reserves and yet they survived and have the highest stock valuation... Interesting to see how BlackBerry interfaces with QNX in cars and other platforms(read the QNX website to find out about other platforms...

**Economist101** · 04-21-2012, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by TheScionicMan

Based on post history, I'm sure the OP is gleefully hoping this will happen...

True or false, that's not the topic. As for the topic, without a definition of "full scale collapse," it's hard to agree or disagree with what the analyst claims.

Originally Posted by russworman

Let's not forget where Apple was in 1997... They lost more cash and had less reserves and yet they survived and have the highest stock valuation... Interesting to see how BlackBerry interfaces with QNX in cars and other platforms(read the QNX website to find out about other platforms...

True, but then a co-founder returned and took the company into new markets that became the backbone of its financials. That was a wise decision, because Apple's computer business has never truly recovered, despite plenty of growth and profit. Apple then was a lot worse than what RIM is now.

RIM, on the other hand, just had its primary founder resign as co-CEO, and its other co-CEO leave the company entirely. As for new markets, the tablet deal isn't going so hot, but who knows? Maybe they've got something else coming our way, but since RIM is anything but tight-lipped it seems unlikely.

**russworman** · 04-21-2012, 02:55 PM

BlackBerry 10 will be the basis for QNX in car infotainment systems... QNX is already in over 30 million cars according to the QNX website...This information is not speculation it just hasn't been really discussed by RIMM as they probably don't want to reveal all advantages...

**kill_9** · 04-21-2012, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by morganplus8

RIM...is(sic)...about to correct an error with their Playbook and they are single handedly launching an entirely new OS system on a new line of hand held phones. That's the biggest refresh any company can ever go through and it is happening within weeks and months starting in May.

What error with their tablet are you talking about? As for the product refresh starting in May I think you are 13 months out of sync considering the BlackBerry PlayBook and the operating system that is the basis for BlackBerry Operating System 10 - copied Apple much? - were both released in April of 2012. It has been an extended refresh cycle with a clock in the final countdown stage. Do not mistake me for a troll nor a RIM hater.

**TGR1** · 04-21-2012, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by russworman

Let's not forget where Apple was in 1997... They lost more cash and had less reserves and yet they survived and have the highest stock valuation... Interesting to see how BlackBerry interfaces with QNX in cars and other platforms(read the QNX website to find out about other platforms...

Sure:

1) if RIM can bring back a CEO like Jobs, who by all accounts learned critical lessons during his Pixar years and revived two struggling companies to industry leaders

2) if RIM has a Jony Ives working away in the design group, waiting to be called upon by the new CEO

3) if Heins can inspire a Tim Cook to jump ship from the then-biggest computer manufacturing operations in the nation after a 10 min meeting

4) if RIM buys and develops platform software at the level of SoundJam (iTunes)

5) if RIM buys and develops platform hardware ideas proposed by entrepreneurs like Tony Fadell (iPod)

6) if RIM can successfully develop and maintain a potent mobile OS (OS X -> iOS)

7) if RIM hires a retail chief like Ron Johnson to design a system that pumps out revenue to the tune of 17x better than the next best retailer (Apple Stores)

8) if RIM invests 10+ years building their ecosystem from the ground up

Apple is actually a not a very good example of "they survived, so can we". Furthermore, RIM is much more limited in scope since they are exclusively in one sector of the mobile industry so can't leverage other abilities/areas. Not to say that BB 10 won't be good; I just don't think it can save the company by itself.

**Mystic205** · 04-21-2012, 03:53 PM

I am sorry, but 99% of internet blog opinion analysis is done by a bunch of worthless folks who simply cannot hold or get a good job.

They are a group of knee-twitching, cut and paste no-thinkers who sway in the breeze of generalised opinion to extrapolate the future from a single data point and frankly could not analyse their way out of a paper bag.

Their objectives and motives have nothing to do with providing insightful intelligence into a situation and all to do with creating headlines to get clicks to drive advertising revenue on their site.

yup..i said that.. now ask me what i really think!..lol

**russworman** · 04-21-2012, 03:54 PM

They own QNX which by default puts them in more than one segment... Over 30 million cars use QNX infotainment and BlackBerry 10 will be the basis for future QNX infotainment systems from many auto manufacturers. QNX has a ecosystem and has been around over ten years and BlackBerry will just refine and expand that... There are a LOT of unrealized possibilities that we will probably see in the future... No one can see the future, but, RIM is at a better starting point...

**the_sleuth** · 04-21-2012, 04:28 PM

Like all hedge fund managers, Tilson has his own agenda. He's short those 3 stock names, so he uses hyperbole hoping to drive lower the share price. This is the same guy that was short Netflix in December 2010, all the way up to it's peak in July 2011 (all time high).

Netflix CEO Reed Hastings Responds To Whitney Tilson: Cover Your Short Position. Now. - Business Insider

Then Tilson went long Netflix.

Poor Whitney Tilson: Netflix Soared After He Shorted It--And Now, After He Covered, It Has Collapsed - Business Insider

I am sure Tilson will be long RIM once he sees BBOS 10. These vultures will never walk away from money-making opportunity.

**FlashFlare11** · 04-21-2012, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by theguitarplayer

You people..rim fanboys have your head in the sand. You really think zillions of iPhone or Android users are going to drop their phones for a BB? BB phones..no matter what they do are done. Their reputation is so low in the publice eye. Known as an antiquated outdated phone with slow Internet service. Why would anyone switch? Seriously. I would bet by next year at this time there will no longer be a company called rim.

I'm not sure why you're here on Crackberry, seeing as you no longer use BB products and clearly want to see RIM fail. It's the people like you that make this board a sometimes volatile place.

As for your question, yes, I do think people would drop their iPhones and Androids if a superior OS is available on the market. You do realize that there's a possibility for BB10 to be a more innovative and attractive OS than iOS and Android, right? If BB10 has greater functionality and simply works better than iOS and Android, then why wouldn't people choose BB10? You know, there are still people who choose the current BBOS over the competitors.

As for their reputation, you do realize that there are other places in the world besides the U.S., right? RIM is still No. 1 in many places of the world and if they can make BB10 affordable in those markets, they'll grow.

If you're happy without your BlackBerry products, that's great. If you want to see RIM die or have a problem with people being optimistic, please leave this site.