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  1. lc474's Avatar
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    Default nasty rumour heard today

    Was talking to a RIM rep today, one who deals with governments and fortune 500. He told me RIM is making some bad choices and could very well lose their govt contracts if they keep heading in the direction they are taking in regards to BB10. BB10 is going to do serious damage to the contracts unless they make some changes. The whole business side and home side poses some big problems when dealing with high security environments.
    The problem is with BB10 and FUSION they are lacking huge on the policy control with IT mangers, security managers and many other government agencies. As of RIGHT NOW, using FUSION, we can secure an IPAD or IPHONE better than we can secure a playbook. Problem is if they EOL OS7 and java support, its big trouble ahead. Govt agencies and companies that need a high security environment that wanted to move to iphone or android but couldn't because of security now have the option to do so, because RIM has given them that option. The rep has been asking IT and security managers to send emails to fight for better control policy, and RIM has been slow to respond as the push is on to release BB10 to the consumer market. As it stands today, no BB10 device will even make it into the building.
    Unfortunately for RIM, it is a catch 22. No matter what direction they go, its going to have major consequences. They are way to committed to the consumer market at this point with QNX/BB10. If BB10 is a failure with the consumer market, it's not a sure thing as of right now with the business market either.

    Perhaps someone else in this sector can elaborate and explain a little better..
  2. LuayS's Avatar
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    I doubt that especially since they said they will focus on their target market (enterprise/gov't) so this seems rather hearsay.
  3. mandony's Avatar
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    LOL, "I heard this same story from my mother who has a friend who knows the guy who ..." don't believe anything you hear from a 'rep' 'cause the legit RIM employees sign confidentiality agreements.
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    Well it's not hearsay, I deal with our govt account, we are doing away with bb and adding iPhones and iPads to the department. They are losing govt accounts fast. I'm and several municipalities have already moved to iPhones and iPads, mind you we are just a department of 600 officer / 300 firefighters / 250 major's office , not including teachers and city yards. Other municipalities have followed same route.
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    Research In Motion's PlayBook Tablet hasn't exactly been a roaring success. However, while the device has failed to match up to competitors, the device got a boost this week as it received the federal stamp of approval for government use. RIM has revealed that the BlackBerry tablet has just been awarded Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) 140-2 certification, something that's required if a device is to be used in any government department or the White House.

    http://www.tomsguide.com/us/BlackBer...ews-11952.html

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  6. johnenglish's Avatar
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    Sales reps are the last people to actually know what's going on in the company.
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    Research In Motion’s BlackBerry line remains the platform choice for nearly half a million federal workers, including President Barack Obama. While the company struggles with consumers and the enterprise market, sales of BlackBerry devices are growing within the U.S. Government, Bloomberg reported on Monday. “Compared to the enterprise over the last year and a half or so, the federal business on whole is up,” said Scott Totzke, who runs RIM’s U.S. government sales business. “The employee base is shrinking, so if we’re looking at a market with fewer employees and our install base is stable to slightly up, that would seem to indicate that we have an increasing market share.” RIM sold 400,000 BlackBerry devices to the federal government in the past year, and more existing clients upgraded to the newer BlackBerry 7 devices and added BlackBerry servers, Totzke said. He added that 40% of RIM’s government customers also upgraded to new devices in the past 12 months. Some agencies are changing their policies, however, and allowing workers to choose other smartphones, which may impact BlackBerry’s government market share moving forward.


    http://m.bgr.com/2012/04/09/rim-blac...t-on-the-rise/


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  8. BBNation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lc474 View Post
    Was talking to a RIM rep today, one who deals with governments and fortune 500. He told me RIM is making some bad choices and could very well lose their govt contracts if they keep heading in the direction they are taking in regards to BB10. BB10 is going to do serious damage to the contracts unless they make some changes. The whole business side and home side poses some big problems when dealing with high security environments.
    The problem is with BB10 and FUSION they are lacking huge on the policy control with IT mangers, security managers and many other government agencies. As of RIGHT NOW, using FUSION, we can secure an IPAD or IPHONE better than we can secure a playbook. Problem is if they EOL OS7 and java support, its big trouble ahead. Govt agencies and companies that need a high security environment that wanted to move to iphone or android but couldn't because of security now have the option to do so, because RIM has given them that option. The rep has been asking IT and security managers to send emails to fight for better control policy, and RIM has been slow to respond as the push is on to release BB10 to the consumer market. As it stands today, no BB10 device will even make it into the building.
    Unfortunately for RIM, it is a catch 22. No matter what direction they go, its going to have major consequences. They are way to committed to the consumer market at this point with QNX/BB10. If BB10 is a failure with the consumer market, it's not a sure thing as of right now with the business market either.

    Perhaps someone else in this sector can elaborate and explain a little better..
    I disagree with Rumor, The Fusion will let u manage to the maximum Apple and Google allows thirdparty and BES or fusion will manage BBs so not sure what is he talking aboutt
  9. dbmalloy's Avatar
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    Find the whole thing rather interesting as the BB10 at best is in Alpha testing if that..... Seems people have a great deal of knowkedge for what is essentially and undelveloped and untested OS......

    If you want to look at this from the other side.... what makes Apple and Android any more secure..... Android has security holes you could drive a truck through and Apple is so focused on the consumer market the governemt and business right now are not their target market...

    I do not see Apple falling into the trap RIM did.... trying to be all things to all people.... They remain King in the consumer market and that is where their focus will stay......

    Apple and Android will make inroads in government and business as a result of Bring Your Own Device...... Does not mean the device is secure.....

    The media is quick to look at the Haliburton's of the world and use it as an example of how RIM is losing their governement and corporate market.... Did not see then saying the same thing when Apple was told the US airforce would not be using Ipads with it's pilots was a potential of 18,000 units ..... It's an example of you can always find something to prove your point.....

    At his time RIM is still king in the security business and I do not see Thor allowing that to change.... RIM's CEO has stated that RIM needs to get back to it's roots.... Time will tell.....
    bluetroll and morganplus8 like this.
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    don't shoot the messenger... also to clarify, it was not a "sales" rep. It was a rep from RIM.. and as I stated in the post, "as of right now".
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    Que sera sera..
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    Uneducated Rep. That is all. They're an .
  13. daveycrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rootbrian View Post
    Uneducated Rep. That is all. They're an .
    Agreed, sounds like rumour feeding rumour, I would have to question the integrety of a person who takes a wage then tells "all" when still in development/negotiation. Maybe the rep is a bigger security risk than the system?

    Maybe this is all a ploy so that governments realise that RIM is the only true secure system.
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  14. wuulfy's Avatar
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    serious question....why does anyone in buisness or goverment want to use a tablet?

    If i had to do any serious work on a tablet..and i mean any tablet, rather than my laptop i would get so frustrated i would probably chuck it out of the window.
    oil.....is it really worth it?
  15. daveycrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuulfy View Post
    serious question....why does anyone in buisness or goverment want to use a tablet?

    If i had to do any serious work on a tablet..and i mean any tablet, rather than my laptop i would get so frustrated i would probably chuck it out of the window.
    e-mails, contacts, calenders, notes, meeting notes agendas, presentations. It's just a "smaller" option. Coupled with bridge, calenders etc clearer to see. I don't think I'd want to write an essay or long letters but many folk do, edit etc. My Playbook is a great bit of kit.
    Be careful when Speaking, you create the world around you with your words-Navajo
  16. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar

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    RIM is indeed scaling back the number of IT policies on the devices. There is zero need for 600+ different variations. If you give a government entity that much control over a device, they will indeed lock it down completely. Scaling back doesn't mean removing security or even coming close to the low level of security on other devices. Sounds like your rep is misinformed.
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    FYI, if you understand logic you will see that your comment in no way is substantiation that the original post is not hearsay...

    Quote Originally Posted by latingeo View Post
    Well it's not hearsay, I deal with our govt account, we are doing away with bb and adding iPhones and iPads to the department. They are losing govt accounts fast. I'm and several municipalities have already moved to iPhones and iPads, mind you we are just a department of 600 officer / 300 firefighters / 250 major's office , not including teachers and city yards. Other municipalities have followed same route.
  18. wuulfy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveycrocket View Post
    e-mails, contacts, calenders, notes, meeting notes agendas, presentations. It's just a "smaller" option. Coupled with bridge, calenders etc clearer to see. I don't think I'd want to write an essay or long letters but many folk do, edit etc. My Playbook is a great bit of kit.
    this is why i never "got" the ipad....as large as some laptops, but with massively reduced functionality, it never really made sense to me.
    oil.....is it really worth it?
  19. mcetlinski's Avatar
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    From the perspective of a BES admin and key decision maker in mobile devices, BB is the only reliable choice for business for executives and employees that are actually using their devices for business. International travel is only reliable with BB, as the others have issues switching GSM carriers and usually result in long delays and dead batteries.

    Ive had a few try the iPhone and they were ok in the US, still about a 1 minute on average delay in email vs an Outlook client. take it international and if it hooks up to a good network and you dont move around you will be ok. But, business doesnt stay in one hotel. The last user brought his old BB and the iPhone. He returned from and told me to put his BB back on his primary line and pitch the iPhone.

    Security and reliable messaging in enterprise are king. One thing the numbers dont show is lower level employees at many companies having android and iphone because they dont rely on messaging. The execs generally still demand the BB.

    average delays after two years of testing vs outlook:

    android: 5 minutes up to 2 or more hours including ICS
    iPhone: 1 minute up to 15
    WP7: same as iPhone

    BB: minus 1. it on average beats Outlook.

    When messaging performance matters as well as security and minutes are potentially millions of dollars. BB.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
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  20. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcetlinski View Post
    From the perspective of a BES admin and key decision maker in mobile devices, BB is the only reliable choice for business for executives and employees that are actually using their devices for business. International travel is only reliable with BB, as the others have issues switching GSM carriers and usually result in long delays and dead batteries.

    Ive had a few try the iPhone and they were ok in the US, still about a 1 minute on average delay in email vs an Outlook client. take it international and if it hooks up to a good network and you dont move around you will be ok. But, business doesnt stay in one hotel. The last user brought his old BB and the iPhone. He returned from and told me to put his BB back on his primary line and pitch the iPhone.

    Security and reliable messaging in enterprise are king. One thing the numbers dont show is lower level employees at many companies having android and iphone because they dont rely on messaging. The execs generally still demand the BB.

    average delays after two years of testing vs outlook:

    android: 5 minutes up to 2 or more hours including ICS
    iPhone: 1 minute up to 15
    WP7: same as iPhone

    BB: minus 1. it on average beats Outlook.

    When messaging performance matters as well as security and minutes are potentially millions of dollars. BB.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    This mirrors much of my experience as well (though WP7 has not been tested in my environment). With the added layer of security on top of the messaging, in environments that put the highest weight on those two factors, there really is no competition.

    Another thing would be data while traveling. If you do not have unlimited data for international, other devices can run up a VERY high bill, very quickly.
  21. lnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lc474 View Post
    Was talking to a RIM rep today, one who deals with governments and fortune 500. He told me RIM is making some bad choices and could very well lose their govt contracts if they keep heading in the direction they are taking in regards to BB10. BB10 is going to do serious damage to the contracts unless they make some changes. The whole business side and home side poses some big problems when dealing with high security environments.
    The problem is with BB10 and FUSION they are lacking huge on the policy control with IT mangers, security managers and many other government agencies. As of RIGHT NOW, using FUSION, we can secure an IPAD or IPHONE better than we can secure a playbook. Problem is if they EOL OS7 and java support, its big trouble ahead. Govt agencies and companies that need a high security environment that wanted to move to iphone or android but couldn't because of security now have the option to do so, because RIM has given them that option. The rep has been asking IT and security managers to send emails to fight for better control policy, and RIM has been slow to respond as the push is on to release BB10 to the consumer market. As it stands today, no BB10 device will even make it into the building.
    Unfortunately for RIM, it is a catch 22. No matter what direction they go, its going to have major consequences. They are way to committed to the consumer market at this point with QNX/BB10. If BB10 is a failure with the consumer market, it's not a sure thing as of right now with the business market either.

    Perhaps someone else in this sector can elaborate and explain a little better..
    First off, RIM already has a crypto kernel for the QNX that they can put into BB10 that is FIPS approved, its the one that was approved for the Playbook. They have a revised version in testing now probably that they plan to use in BB10, but worst case they can use the old one till the new one is approved because the modularity of QNX. So they have a leg up at least on iOS, and the majority of Android devices in that regard for government customers day one of the BB10 phone release. Second if Balance works as promised, a Sandbox for all work/government space with its own app selection that shows up in app world, then again it is another thing that the competition doesn't emulate, they only have sandboxed apps as far as I have seen. Someone who has played with Fusion and Balance would have to elaborate on if it really works. Now if BB10 does indeed turn out to be a security mess (which I can't see RIM doing as it would be suicide), then yes they would be in deep trouble and it would probably be the thing that makes the government and security conscience businesses look elsewhere.

    RIM's biggest issue that I see right now is that businesses and government who used to not be willing to compromise security or were required to have FIPS, are caving to the BYOD movement and figuring out ways to make other devices work. RIM doesn't, at this moment, have a compelling device that the majority of consumers want to use as their personal and professional device. RIM not only has to make sure that BB10 has all of the security chops of BBOS devices, but that people if given the option would want to use it.
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  22. daveycrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    First off, RIM already has a crypto kernel for the QNX that they can put into BB10 that is FIPS approved, its the one that was approved for the Playbook. They have a revised version in testing now probably that they plan to use in BB10, but worst case they can use the old one till the new one is approved because the modularity of QNX. So they have a leg up at least on iOS, and the majority of Android devices in that regard for government customers day one of the BB10 phone release. Second if Balance works as promised, a Sandbox for all work/government space with its own app selection that shows up in app world, then again it is another thing that the competition doesn't emulate, they only have sandboxed apps as far as I have seen. Someone who has played with Fusion and Balance would have to elaborate on if it really works. Now if BB10 does indeed turn out to be a security mess (which I can't see RIM doing as it would be suicide), then yes they would be in deep trouble and it would probably be the thing that makes the government and security conscience businesses look elsewhere.

    RIM's biggest issue that I see right now is that businesses and government who used to not be willing to compromise security or were required to have FIPS, are caving to the BYOD movement and figuring out ways to make other devices work. RIM doesn't, at this moment, have a compelling device that the majority of consumers want to use as their personal and professional device. RIM not only has to make sure that BB10 has all of the security chops of BBOS devices, but that people if given the option would want to use it.
    You speak sense, from an artical that I read yesterday (see link) it said that all US federal govenment devises of this kind must be FIPS approval. Where a product is piloted is the only exception. Like you I have a good feeling about "balance" and agree this is only viable if the consumer wants BB10.
    http://searchconsumerization.techtar...0-2-compliance
    If info in the link is correct then how does Post 4 from Latingeo work or is it that this is a different govenment level? Being from The UK me no understandy
    Last edited by daveycrocket; 04-26-2012 at 09:00 AM. Reason: Added link
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    Quote Originally Posted by lc474 View Post
    don't shoot the messenger... also to clarify, it was not a "sales" rep. It was a rep from RIM.. and as I stated in the post, "as of right now".
    Let's parse that a little.

    it was not a "sales" rep. It was a rep from RIM

    By which you mean an account exec working with Gov/Enterprise, I'm gathering? So in what context was this discussion? Is this a friend of yours? Family?

    Whoever it is, they seem to be indiscreet enough to be willing to discuss sensitive issues with people who seem all to ready to broadcast them on the Internet...
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    I don't see why so many people are surprised. Sounds perfectly credible to me despite the lack of a real source. I wouldn't put it past RIM to screw this up, their constant market missteps shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point.
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    Have any of you setup and ran mobile fusion?

    At first i didn't think it was working as sending lock commands and password changes to the playbook didn't enforce or change the password on the tablet.. It took me a bit to realize that it was only locking and changes the passwords of work related stuff.. IE email, calendar, tasks etc. The tablet itself was unlocked but the work related info was locked.

    I'm used to bes and the force the whole device to lock. Setting up BESx 5.0.3 took less then two hours from start to activating a device. The blackberry device service for the playbook took a bit longer.

    Anyhow. People are going to change devices when they get bored with a platform..
    --- Sent From Mobile Device While on the Can! ---
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