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  1. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #51  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    LOL!!!!! Remember how much Siri was derided???? I have to admit even I took part in that, until I used it and found that yes, it is useful.
    It has some pretty funny responses. "F___ you!" ... Siri: "I'm only trying to help.

    I haven't been able to get it to work very well for me, but your mileage may vary.
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
  2. Rello's Avatar
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    #52  

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    It may not be hypocrisy for many. Many people may deem the overall BlackBerry experience, BBM, security, International traveling advantages, etc. that a BlackBerry has provided higher than what the competition currently provides, and if RIM can still provide what they did, and can add features that other platforms have excelled at, those people would still consider a BB10 BlackBerry to be a superior device for their needs, just as BBOS is still a superior device for their needs. I know that I use a BlackBerry not because of loyalty to RIM, but simply because it is the best, single device that meets my personal requirements, and I'm not going to carry a utility belt or murse to carry around a ton of different hardware. Adding in robust app, web and media support that rivals, and has the potential to exceed the competition to the existing BlackBerry experience will just solidify this for me as it adds gravy while covering my priorities. So when people make statements like they don't need/use it, so it isn't important, that is true at least for them over what they have for their requirements. Sure their are die hard fans that will defend RIM no matter what, but I'm sure the die hard trolls will slam RIM no matter how great the new phones and software is.

    Personally I won't download Whatsapp even if available, but I'd like to see it as an available option for those who need/want it. If the voice assistant works great, I'll likely start using it as I will no longer have a physical keyboard to use while driving (I know evil txt'ing driver). Probably even start playing some games on the phone, and if Nike+ is available and works with the GPS I'll start using that too. I know it won't be the first phone to have these apps/features, but it should be the first to have these apps/features, while still meeting the requirements that I have for a single device, and that will personally excite me, and probably a lot of people here at CrackBerry.
    The bolder is exactly what separates u from the people we're talking about my friend. If someone won't download the app, and it's because they already have a alternative that works for them, or because they simply don't care for the app...then hats fine. But when people come on here and belittle others because a certain app that they want/need won't be on the platform and they believe that since they don't use it that apparently no one else does, that's where I have a problem.

    It's getting so hard to just have a normal discussion because it's always either super fanbois or trolls ruining it. LOL there's no need to come into a thread about a app u care nothing about and then rip on people that want/use it. It's childish. We're all on the same team yet I know plenty of people who avoid crackberry and it's forums due to trolls of both kinds. Why would any downplay the importance of a major app???
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  3. br3wnor's Avatar
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    #53  

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    Damn this is actually a huge issue for me, I use WhatsApp to keep in touch with 4 really close friends (2 iPhones and 2 Androids) and we have an all day chat going which is one of my main sources of entertainment, if there's no WhatsApp I'm seriously gonna have to consider not going BB10.

    EDIT: Looks like on the Dev kits people were able to side load it and work fine. If that's the case then no biggie, just gonna have to wait to make sure it's a viable solution.
  4. jafrul's Avatar
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    #54  

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    guys... any of you updated to the latest whatsapp 2.9.874 ?
    is it much stable than previous versions?



    EDIT: the previous version 2.9.653 is a sometime yes/no kind of buggy...
  5. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #55  

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    Quote Originally Posted by br3wnor View Post
    Damn this is actually a huge issue for me, I use WhatsApp to keep in touch with 4 really close friends (2 iPhones and 2 Androids) and we have an all day chat going which is one of my main sources of entertainment, if there's no WhatsApp I'm seriously gonna have to consider not going BB10.
    As that samsung advert wrongly suggests for bbm, one alternative would be fb messenger since somebody using whatsapp obviously isn't concerned about security anyway and besides that there are plenty of other alternatives such as gtalk.
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #56  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    So how do people text each other unless they have their NUMBER already? If you're comfortable enough with someone to give them your number as you would for texting, then Whatsapp is no different in that regards. Yes, BBM is nice because you don't have to give out your number, but Whatsapp is just a much better alternative to SMS.
    Yes but as an IM client, what other IM client requires your number? Yahoo Messenger? no, Gtalk? no, BBM? no, Skype? no, Windows Live? no and so on
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #57  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rello View Post
    Why would any downplay the importance of a major app???
    Because it comes with plenty security concerns, some fixed, some not and BB people tend to be more security conscious. I won't touch any Android device because Google has shown time and time again they are willing to ignore users privacy, they even got fined 22+ millions for it. Does that make me crazy for downplaying the importance of the biggest smartphone OS?
  8. valeuche's Avatar
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    #58  

    Default Re: Just a though about whatsapp !!

    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Because it comes with plenty security concerns, some fixed, some not and BB people tend to be more security conscious. I won't touch any Android device because Google has shown time and time again they are willing to ignore users privacy, they even got fined 22+ millions for it. Does that make me crazy for downplaying the importance of the biggest smartphone OS?
    For the uninitiated what security concerns does it have?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #59  

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    Quote Originally Posted by valeuche View Post
    For the uninitiated what security concerns does it have?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    http://m.cnet.com/news/chat-app-used-by-activists-has-security-flaws-say-critics/57513530


    http://m.h-online.com/security/news/item/WhatsApp-accounts-almost-completely-unprotected-1708545.html?from-classic=1


    "Tests performed by The*H's associates at heise Security have found that popular texting alternative WhatsApp is easily hacked using freely available tools. Anyone using WhatsApp on a public Wi-Fi network risks having their data sniffed and their account used to send and receive messages. Once hacked, there is no way to restore account security attackers will be able to continue to use the hacked account at their discretion.
    Over the last week the lack of security inherent in WhatsApp's authentication has gradually become clear. Researchers have discovered that the client uses an internally generated password to log on to the server; this password is generated on Android devices from the device's serial number (IMEI) and on iOS devices from the MAC address of the Wi-Fi interface. The problem with this is that the information is anything other than secret the IMEI can often be found on stickers inside of Android phones (usually under the battery) and can also be obtained using a shortcut key combination or by any app.
    Sniffing this data is even easier when it comes to devices running iOS the MAC address is visible to anyone within range of the Wi-Fi network being used. If this is a public Wi-Fi network, in a busy coffee shop, for example, data sniffers can even determine the user's phone number from the data packet transmitted by WhatsApp. Taking over the account is child's play attackers don't even need to know who their victim is. The whole situation is even less understandable considering that there is already a shared secret between WhatsApp and the user in the form of a confirmation code sent by text message when the user first registers.
    In tests, heise*Security found that, with the help of WhatsAPI, the PHP-based WhatsApp API, it was possible to take over both Android and iOS WhatsApp user accounts. And doing so was shockingly easy. All attackers have to do is to enter the phone number and MAC address or IMEI into a script and they are then able to send whatever messages they like from the compromised account. The sender is reported as the compromised user's phone number.
    The script also offers a conversation mode which allowed heise*Security to both send and receive messages. Sent messages are not visible on the account owner's phone and, as long as the script is running, neither are the responses received.
    The experiment shows that, as things stand, WhatsApp should be used with caution. To avoid making it easy for data sniffers, iPhone users should refrain from using it on public networks. There appears, however, to be no way of preventing people immediately around you, such as workmates, from taking over your account, as obtaining your phone number and IMEI or MAC address is generally a simple matter.
    Once an account has been compromised, there is no remedy there is currently no way of changing your password and thereby blocking the attacker. WhatsApp now needs to step up to the plate and start protecting its users.
    There are also indications that WhatsApp may have been equally lax in designing the algorithm it uses to generate keys for encrypting messages. An anonymous, so far unconfirmed, report claims that, at least for the iOS version of the app, the key is easily determined."
  10. valeuche's Avatar
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    #60  

    Default Re: Just a though about whatsapp !!

    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    http://m.cnet.com/news/chat-app-used-by-activists-has-security-flaws-say-critics/57513530


    http://m.h-online.com/security/news/...from-classic=1


    "Tests performed by The*H's associates at heise Security have found that popular texting alternative WhatsApp is easily hacked using freely available tools. Anyone using WhatsApp on a public Wi-Fi network risks having their data sniffed and their account used to send and receive messages. Once hacked, there is no way to restore account security attackers will be able to continue to use the hacked account at their discretion.
    Over the last week the lack of security inherent in WhatsApp's authentication has gradually become clear. Researchers have discovered that the client uses an internally generated password to log on to the server; this password is generated on Android devices from the device's serial number (IMEI) and on iOS devices from the MAC address of the Wi-Fi interface. The problem with this is that the information is anything other than secret the IMEI can often be found on stickers inside of Android phones (usually under the battery) and can also be obtained using a shortcut key combination or by any app.
    Sniffing this data is even easier when it comes to devices running iOS the MAC address is visible to anyone within range of the Wi-Fi network being used. If this is a public Wi-Fi network, in a busy coffee shop, for example, data sniffers can even determine the user's phone number from the data packet transmitted by WhatsApp. Taking over the account is child's play attackers don't even need to know who their victim is. The whole situation is even less understandable considering that there is already a shared secret between WhatsApp and the user in the form of a confirmation code sent by text message when the user first registers.
    In tests, heise*Security found that, with the help of WhatsAPI, the PHP-based WhatsApp API, it was possible to take over both Android and iOS WhatsApp user accounts. And doing so was shockingly easy. All attackers have to do is to enter the phone number and MAC address or IMEI into a script and they are then able to send whatever messages they like from the compromised account. The sender is reported as the compromised user's phone number.
    The script also offers a conversation mode which allowed heise*Security to both send and receive messages. Sent messages are not visible on the account owner's phone and, as long as the script is running, neither are the responses received.
    The experiment shows that, as things stand, WhatsApp should be used with caution. To avoid making it easy for data sniffers, iPhone users should refrain from using it on public networks. There appears, however, to be no way of preventing people immediately around you, such as workmates, from taking over your account, as obtaining your phone number and IMEI or MAC address is generally a simple matter.
    Once an account has been compromised, there is no remedy there is currently no way of changing your password and thereby blocking the attacker. WhatsApp now needs to step up to the plate and start protecting its users.
    There are also indications that WhatsApp may have been equally lax in designing the algorithm it uses to generate keys for encrypting messages. An anonymous, so far unconfirmed, report claims that, at least for the iOS version of the app, the key is easily determined."
    It took a bit of digging but there is a real concern. What is being described here isn't the biggest problem, the biggest problem is that key exchange is done basically out in the open. For that the messages can probably be recovered without physical access to the device (if you can get physical assess to a device you are trying to snoop on, even bbm won't be secure).

    I have a concern with bbm too, in that the messages are in plain text at some point between transmission and reception, if it were being designed for more true security the message should not exist in plain text at any point from transmission to reception (including presence on RIM's servers- it should not be possible for rim to negotiate any deal with any government allowing access to messages because the crypto system should make that impossible).

    Whatsapp admittedly is on a whole different level of insecure though.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #61  

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    Quote Originally Posted by valeuche View Post
    It took a bit of digging but there is a real concern. What is being described here isn't the biggest problem, the biggest problem is that key exchange is done basically out in the open. For that the messages can probably be recovered without physical access to the device (if you can get physical assess to a device you are trying to snoop on, even bbm won't be secure).

    I have a concern with bbm too, in that the messages are in plain text at some point between transmission and reception, if it were being designed for more true security the message should not exist in plain text at any point from transmission to reception (including presence on RIM's servers- it should not be possible for rim to negotiate any deal with any government allowing access to messages because the crypto system should make that impossible).

    Whatsapp admittedly is on a whole different level of insecure though.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    Two things, one a BB password is literally impenetrable especially with encryption enabled, two entire countries are crying they can't intercept BBMs on BIS(never mind BES). I believe some got their own NOCs to be able to do that but they certainly can't be pulled out of the air.
  12. Rickroller's Avatar
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    #62  

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    Again, your article is nearly 6 months old. Perhaps this issue has been rectified already. As well, with the large number of Whatsapp users, has there ever been any documented case of this happening? Probably not,as it's much easier to just punch someone in the face and take their phone while in use to do whatever it is you want, than it is to sit in some coffee shop waiting for someone's account to hack.

    "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all." -Sam Ewing
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  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #63  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickroller View Post
    Again, your article is nearly 6 months old. Perhaps this issue has been rectified already. As well, with the large number of Whatsapp users, has there ever been any documented case of this happening? Probably not,as it's much easier to just punch someone in the face and take their phone while in use to do whatever it is you want, than it is to sit in some coffee shop waiting for someone's account to hack.

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    #64  

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    Yup.
    It's a vulnerability.
    It boils down to judicious use.....I don't use public, unsecured, WiFi. I'm either at home on my secure network, on secure networks for which I have a code, or on the AT&T network.
    I don't use unsecured WiFi for *anything* on *any* device, except for twice, back in 2011, when initially downloading an update to my very first Android, my Atrix, and when first setting up my Nook, at the Barnes and Noble store. Once I had my initial information set up, I used my secure home Wifi.

    Next.....
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    #65  

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    It has some pretty funny responses. "F___ you!" ... Siri: "I'm only trying to help.

    I haven't been able to get it to work very well for me, but your mileage may vary.
    I KNOW!!!! I had problems because it did not understand my accent....so I changed it to UK English and it thought I was in England.....I finally learned to s-p-e-a-k s-l-o-w-l-y and adopted a Southern Virginia accent....that seemed to do the trick until it got used to me!!!

    I hope Viki doesn't mind my accent so much.....
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  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #66  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    Yup.
    It's a vulnerability.
    It boils down to judicious use.....I don't use public, unsecured, WiFi. I'm either at home on my secure network, on secure networks for which I have a code, or on the AT&T network.
    I don't use unsecured WiFi for *anything* on *any* device, except for twice, back in 2011, when initially downloading an update to my very first Android, my Atrix, and when first setting up my Nook, at the Barnes and Noble store. Once I had my initial information set up, I used my secure home Wifi.

    Next.....
    I'm sure everybody's happy that you're ok, but what about all other users that are not aware of the vulnerability?
  17. reeneebob's Avatar
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    #67  

    Default Re: Just a though about whatsapp !!

    Wasn't aware that common sense was exclusive to BB users.

    Frankly all things considered, I find the BB pin to be far more insecure to give out than the telephone number. I can change my TN of necessary. Pin not so much.

    Of course, I'm the weirdo who texts. I didn't BBM on any of my BBs and I don't WhatsApp.

    A BB can be just as insecure if the user is an *****.

    I had to get the red SGS3...garnet is my birthstone! Excuses sent via Tapatalk 2
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    #68  

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    Quote Originally Posted by reeneebob View Post
    Wasn't aware that common sense was exclusive to BB users.

    Frankly all things considered, I find the BB pin to be far more insecure to give out than the telephone number. I can change my TN of necessary. Pin not so much.

    Of course, I'm the weirdo who texts. I didn't BBM on any of my BBs and I don't WhatsApp.

    A BB can be just as insecure if the user is an *****.

    I had to get the red SGS3...garnet is my birthstone! Excuses sent via Tapatalk 2
    BBM is not and has never really been tied to one PIN, I've changed my BBM profile to other PINs many times,once simply because I forgot one phone at home, in a few seconds I changed my BBM profile to it and back when I got home, my contacts nevere knew it happened.
  19. qbnkelt's Avatar
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    #69  

    Default Re: Just a though about whatsapp !!

    Quote Originally Posted by reeneebob View Post
    Wasn't aware that common sense was exclusive to BB users.

    Frankly all things considered, I find the BB pin to be far more insecure to give out than the telephone number. I can change my TN of necessary. Pin not so much.

    Of course, I'm the weirdo who texts. I didn't BBM on any of my BBs and I don't WhatsApp.

    A BB can be just as insecure if the user is an *****.

    I had to get the red SGS3...garnet is my birthstone! Excuses sent via Tapatalk 2
    If course it isn't. Common sense should apply to everything. Technology is no longer some newfangled mysterious thing that is available to only a privileged few.

    User responsibility is key, and there are plenty of warnings in the media, news stories, articles, special interest reports, and education through work all related to what to do and not what to do on the internet to avoid phishing scams, safe browsing, safe Wi-Fi use, etc.

    And I think you're right, the PIN cannot be changed.

    http://supportforums.blackberry.com/...-a/td-p/330277

    ***Edit: confirmation that PINs cannot be changed.

    Any device on any platform can be made vulnerable through improper use, no platform is impenetrable. Much to the chagrin of those who would have you believe that a BB will always and forever through any and ask circumstances be made absolutely completely safe. It's safer than anything else, but it's absolutely not impenetrable.

    Sent from my SEXY HOT RED SGIII using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by qbnkelt; 01-23-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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    #70  

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    True, a blackberry can be as vulnerable as an android but an android can't be as secure as a blackberry, see the difference?
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    To illustrate my point, here are vulnerabilities catalogued through NIST.

    Of course, it goes without saying, that there are many many more risks in Android and iOS.

    However.....the greatest risk arises out of complacency through a misguided and incorrect assumption of impenetrability.

    National Vulnerability Database (NVD) Search Vulnerabilities


    http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/st...vss_i=&cvss_a=
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    #72  

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    Let's make sure that those that don't know don't say like yesterday.
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    #73  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    Let's make sure that those that don't know don't say like yesterday.
    Agreed. People who are unaware of how to search for vulnerabilities and information regarding platforms, their inherent vulnerabilities, and mitigation of said vulnerabilties should remain mum on the subject. Speaking of suppositions, using massive generalisations, do nothing for actual data.
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    #74  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rello View Post
    The bolder is exactly what separates u from the people we're talking about my friend. If someone won't download the app, and it's because they already have a alternative that works for them, or because they simply don't care for the app...then hats fine. But when people come on here and belittle others because a certain app that they want/need won't be on the platform and they believe that since they don't use it that apparently no one else does, that's where I have a problem.

    It's getting so hard to just have a normal discussion because it's always either super fanbois or trolls ruining it. LOL there's no need to come into a thread about a app u care nothing about and then rip on people that want/use it. It's childish. We're all on the same team yet I know plenty of people who avoid crackberry and it's forums due to trolls of both kinds. Why would any downplay the importance of a major app???

    Ah!!!! Amazing how you understood what I was talking about.

    And I stand by my statement. Hypocrisy. Just chose to let the comments go....

    Can't wait to hear how consuming media on a big screen is JUST AMAZING.....and how quickly it changes from all the other "but those Android devices are SO BIG and WHO NEEDS a device that B I G because you can't use them on one hand and they don't fit in your pocket and you look silly holding it to your ear comments".....especially so when the Aristo comes out.....

    Frankly, I'm on my way to a Note 3. L-O-V-E my B I G SGIII screen. Will love my bigger BB screen, the 9860 ended up being too small for me. Even the 4S feels cramped now.
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    #75  

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    Varunsain, you really flatter me with all this attention. And thank you for padding my likes statistics....you give me even more credence.
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    Last Post: 06-25-2008, 02:41 PM
  5. Cool featire i just found out about!
    By btownsoccerstud in forum BlackBerry Curve 83xx
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-17-2008, 10:32 AM

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