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  1. super mecha's Avatar
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    #101  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperionMaximus View Post
    Yeah, and Microsoft is bragging about adding 75 000 apps in the last year. RIM will have more then that day one. How many will they add if the phones sell?

    Speaking of sales, yeah I know, all 6 of you that bought Windows Phone love it. I get it, different strokes for different folks. .
    What you just said there invalidated anything you said and if you did have any good arguments, they would be turned into fan boy comments. However if you werent being a fanboy, you would know that WP has gained much more mass market acceptance then BB

    I dont have a WP.
  2. omniusovermind's Avatar
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    #102  

    Default Re: Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?

    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    they are 2 different systems. one is intel based the other is arm based.
    The RT is arm based, sorry I shouldve specified meant Surface RT
    Carrier controlled updates is the worst smartphone spec of them all
    Nexus 4
  3. sexybabe88's Avatar
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    #103  

    Default Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheScionicMan View Post
    WP's customer satisfaction rate is apparently so high that they have to come to a BB forum just to find things on a phone to complain about...
    sadly a huge majority of the wp8 proponents on cb are/were bb fans. it underscores the wp8 threat really.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
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  4. tiziano27's Avatar
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    #104  

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    Microsoft not only has money, also has: Windows, Windows Server, Active Directory, Office, Office 365, Skydrive, Skype, Azure, Sharepoint, .NET, etc.

    And that is the small problem, the big problems are Apple, Google and Amazon.

    I think RIM is too small to fight this war, if BB10 is a competent software the most probable future is an acquisition by Samsung or Amazon. If isn't that good, RIM will be acquired by a patent troll and BB10 to the open source ****.
  5. KatKatKatina's Avatar
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    #105  

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    I don't think RIM needs to kill Windows Phone. Windows Phone is doing a good job of killing Windows Phone.
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  6. texazzpete's Avatar
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    #106  

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    Quote Originally Posted by KatKatKatina View Post
    I don't think RIM needs to kill Windows Phone. Windows Phone is doing a good job of killing Windows Phone.
    I see this quote all the time...care to tell us how 'Windows Phone is killing off Windows Phone'?

    As far as I - and many others - know and say, by moving to the NT kernel and ensuring very easy porting between Windows 8 Metro and WP8, Microsoft's making all the right moves. Most complaints by reviewers are due to the much lower app count than their main competitors. If you scoff at this, consider the fact that at 150,000 apps. that's way more than 50000 apps more than BB10 will launch with out of the gate.

    The hardware so far has been fantastic (Lumia 920 and 8X are both excellent devices) and Microsoft has done a very good job of quashing most of the early bugs.

    It's always hilarious when people here make fun of the WP 8 launch bugs...as if those aren't infinitely more benign than the spontaneous bricking that afflicted many of the 9900/9930 devices last year.

    I don't plan on getting a WP device anytime soon. My Galaxy Note II and my Bold 9900 is my preferred combo for now. I do wish them well though...the more the merrier, I say.
    If the Android player on BB10 is any good, after I get my BB10 device at launch (and throw away this abysmal 9900) I may consider getting rid of the dedicated Android phone and dabbling into something else like WP. We'll see.
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  7. SuperionMaximus's Avatar
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    #107  

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    Quote Originally Posted by super mecha View Post
    What you just said there invalidated anything you said and if you did have any good arguments, they would be turned into fan boy comments. However if you werent being a fanboy, you would know that WP has gained much more mass market acceptance then BB

    I dont have a WP.
    In what parallel universe does Windows Phone have 79 million customers? Much more mass market acceptance. You're comparing current sales of a 2 month old Windows Phone 8 devices with 16 month old BlackBerry 7.1 devices. Of course the new phones are going to outsell the old ones. That's not market acceptance or Windows Phone 8, that's just RIM not having anything to sell in the last year.

    We'll get back to you when RIM announces their fiscal Q2. Then we will see who has more acceptance in the market. Symbian and Windows Mobile users did NOT upgrade en masse to Windows Phone. Will BlackBery customers? We'll see, but I would bet RIM has a higher rate of retention of it's existing customers then Symbian and Windows Mobile put together. Which is really really sad because Symbian alone was 1/3 of the entire smart Phone Market, and now those people have android phones.

    I have passion, but I'm not blind in my passion. I've used every platform out there for the last 15 years including Windows Mobile and Phone 7 and 8. But even if you love Windows Phone, or if you don it makes no difference, you have to admit that it has been a flop thus far and the only thin keeping ANY momentum on the platform is Microsoft throwing money at it. The commercials don't appeal to me, but you can't escape them in Prime time. AT&T stores have them prominently displayed and there's even a commercial for Windows Phone in the hold music when you call them. Microsoft is pushing it with everything they have, and yet no one will reveal the numbers. That means the numbers still aren't there. Wait for this update, wait for this carrier, wait, wait wait wait wait.... That's all we keep being told about a platform that has been ON THE MARKET for over two years.

    I get that BlackBerry users have had their share of waiting. But it's waiting for the new platform to be launched. No one really knows if BB 10 will sink or float in the market yet because we've spent the last two years waiting for it. The Playbook too. It was launched half baked and we're still waiting for things that were promised before launch. but we draw hope from the signs that things are being done differently at RIM today then they were a couple years ago. There are also things I hate about BlackBerry 10. I personally think the home screen is rather uninspired and generic. I hate the "Action Bar". I loath the force field around the icons. I don't think Active frames need to have the name of the app pinned under them because if they are made as intended I should know what app I'm looking at from the information displayed in the frame, so the name plate is redundant and a sign that RIM is not confident in developers doing a good job with Active frames. If you had side by side screenshots of the sub menus in BB 7.1 and BB 10, most would swear the were looking at BB 7.5 cause really all that's changed is the graphic beside the descriptions that are still on a white background. I'm also disappointed that themes will not be allowed on BlackBerry 10 and think that is a very poor choice by RIM. Not only do current BlackBerry users like themes, but Android users do as well. So for the new platform to be rigid and un-customizable, risks potential upgrades and converts that enjoy personalizing more then the outside of their phone.

    So while I will still be buying BB 10 on launch day, I think there is much room for improvement in the platform in BB 11 and 12. But still, the BlackBerry solution with BlackBerry 10 still looks to be the most complete for what I need in a mobile computer so I will be sticking it out through the transition and the BlackBerry "_____" Z10 will be my next phone.
  8. texazzpete's Avatar
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    #108  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperionMaximus View Post
    We'll get back to you when RIM announces their fiscal Q2. Then we will see who has more acceptance in the market. Symbian and Windows Mobile users did NOT upgrade en masse to Windows Phone. Will BlackBery customers? We'll see, but I would bet RIM has a higher rate of retention of it's existing customers then Symbian and Windows Mobile put together. Which is really really sad because Symbian alone was 1/3 of the entire smart Phone Market, and now those people have android phones.
    You may be surprised. Between great hardware, increased support from mega OEMs like Samsung, increase in app count, growing acceptance of Windows 8 and excellent push in China (3 Lumia phones to be available to China Mobile's 750 million subscribers, HTC 8X on the three top Chinese carriers), a budget Lumia 620 for developing markets, improved marketing from microsoft et al...Windows Phone 8 will do much better than WP7.

    If I were you, I would not be so confident in betting the platform would be outsold by BB10. We'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperionMaximus View Post
    I have passion, but I'm not blind in my passion. I've used every platform out there for the last 15 years including Windows Mobile and Phone 7 and 8. But even if you love Windows Phone, or if you don it makes no difference, you have to admit that it has been a flop thus far and the only thin keeping ANY momentum on the platform is Microsoft throwing money at it. The commercials don't appeal to me, but you can't escape them in Prime time. AT&T stores have them prominently displayed and there's even a commercial for Windows Phone in the hold music when you call them. Microsoft is pushing it with everything they have, and yet no one will reveal the numbers. That means the numbers still aren't there.
    WP8 has been on the market for 2 months. From all indications, it isn't a flop so far. Where are you getting your info from?
    Why do you expect numbers to be out before the next earnings call? Since when does RIM ever release any numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperionMaximus View Post
    Wait for this update, wait for this carrier, wait, wait wait wait wait.... That's all we keep being told about a platform that has been ON THE MARKET for over two years.
    I'm not sure what you're referencing here, but I keep up to date on tech news and as far as I know, nobody's being asked to 'wait' for anything for WP8.
    incremental updates are a part of modern smartphone life, amirite?
    The weakest chink in WP8's armour is app support/ecosystem. Guess which other upcoming mobile OS shares this same Achilles heel?
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  9. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #109  

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheScionicMan View Post
    WP's customer satisfaction rate is apparently so high that they have to come to a BB forum just to find things on a phone to complain about...
    Hehehehe - that did make me laugh out loud. Well done!
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
    TheScionicMan likes this.
  10. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #110  

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiziano27 View Post
    Microsoft not only has money, also has: Windows, Windows Server, Active Directory, Office, Office 365, Skydrive, Skype, Azure, Sharepoint, .NET, etc.
    And they had almost every last one of them with Windows Mobile too ...
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
    lnichols and Dapper37 like this.
  11. BB_Bmore's Avatar
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    #111  

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    Can't wait for BlackBerry10 it looks amazing. Windows phone 8 was fun on the homescreen but that's were it stopped.
    I waited...It launched...Im still waiting...
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  12. bhrgvr's Avatar
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    #112  

    Default Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?

    I really dont want Nokia to lose out on the race.... Both BB and Nokia are good phones... I hope RIM and Nokia do well in 2013...

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9860 using Tapatalk
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  13. magutwit's Avatar
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    #113  

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    I have already posted there and I only repeat myself : the best thing is to hope that both WP8 and BB10 do well to reduce the Android and iOs shares. A well balanced-marker of 4 or 5 big players is much better than a duopoly where challengers fight each and die.

    That's why I think that Microsoft commits a huge error by not letting the Skype into BB10. Even if it isn't so and they would let it in, but they are not interested, this is a mistake as well : Windows Phone needs a strong BB and weakened Android and iOs.
    Jake Storm likes this.
  14. digitalman101's Avatar
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    #114  

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    Nope, RIM will not kill ms wp.
  15. texazzpete's Avatar
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    #115  

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    Quote Originally Posted by magutwit View Post
    That's why I think that Microsoft commits a huge error by not letting the Skype into BB10. Even if it isn't so and they would let it in, but they are not interested, this is a mistake as well : Windows Phone needs a strong BB and weakened Android and iOs.
    There's absolutely no indication that MS will not release Skype for BB10. They are a software company, primarily, and their usual pattern is to spread their wares as wide as possible, especially if it does not eat into their business.

    Skype is practically guaranteed to come out for BB10...at the very worst, there's always the upcoming browser based version which should run on nay HTML 5 device and doesn't require any plugins ( i think)
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  16. texazzpete's Avatar
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    #116  

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    And they had almost every last one of them with Windows Mobile too ...
    I think we've already established that Windows Mobile was a pretty successful smartphone OS in its heydays...just like BB OS. Not so?
  17. lnichols's Avatar
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    #117  

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    Quote Originally Posted by texazzpete View Post
    I think we've already established that Windows Mobile was a pretty successful smartphone OS in its heydays...just like BB OS. Not so?
    How are you defining success? Their mobile division lost money until 2006 when they made a whopping $2 Million (apparently by using some creative accounting and combining them with MSN figures and not by popularity or turning the corner), losing over $550 million from 2003 through 2005, and then the wheels came off the train! They spent hundreds of Million of dollars during that time to get a barely over a Million devices in peoples hands. They had marketshare in a small, almost non-existent, and niche market at the time. It paled in comparison to Symbian dominance and was eclipsed by RIM not long after 2006. Basically once smartphones became popular, Windows Mobile didn't tag along for the ride.

    CE n'est pas bon
    After a decade of trying, WinCE has done little to push the state of the art, and nothing to enrich Microsoft. The company reports having lost over half a billion dollars from its Mobile and Embedded Devices segment over the last four years, which includes sales of both WinCE and Embedded Windows.
    Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?-mspl.png

    In 2006, the segment brought in 2 million in profit (partly from pushing some of its losses into the MSN group), but Microsoft apparently isn’t impressed. It has announced that for 2007, it will start reporting WinCE devices as part of its Entertainment and Devices group, rather than breaking each out separately, as they are above.
    Thanked by:
    Jake Storm (12-28-2012) 
  18. texazzpete's Avatar
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    #118  

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    How are you defining success? Their mobile division lost money until 2006 when they made a whopping $2 Million (apparently by using some creative accounting and combining them with MSN figures and not by popularity or turning the corner), losing over $550 million from 2003 through 2005, and then the wheels came off the train! They spent hundreds of Million of dollars during that time to get a barely over a Million devices in peoples hands. They had marketshare in a small, almost non-existent, and niche market at the time. It paled in comparison to Symbian dominance and was eclipsed by RIM not long after 2006. Basically once smartphones became popular, Windows Mobile didn't tag along for the ride.
    I'm referring to Marketshare here...

    Sometimes it isn't just about profits...Xbox was considered a success yet the entertainment division lost money constantly for Microsoft for years and years.
    Microsoft loses money with Bing too...yet they are only too glad to trumpet each percentage point of marketshare they wrest away from Google.

    The smartphone sector wasn't as small or niche as you try to paint it. There were tens of millions of devices sold even then.

    This link
    the::unwired - EXPECTATIONS: Microsoft sees Windows Mobile Smartphone growth up 50 %

    Reports Microsoft sold 11 million units of the WM software in the 2007/08 fiscal year. That's much more than the 'one million devices' you mention. Care to address this disconnect?
  19. bb10_fan's Avatar
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    #119  

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    It's really funny to read both forums for the same topic (Wp Central has the same thread going on, but they are more active, 9 pages vs 5 here)
  20. Bobert_123's Avatar
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    #120  

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb10_fan View Post
    It's really funny to read both forums for the same topic (Wp Central has the same thread going on, but they are more active, 9 pages vs 5 here)
    Ha! I remember you and a few other CB guys over at that thread It's fun to listen to those WP guys talk about us "BB fan boys" to each other like were not listening.
    Last edited by Bobert_123; 12-28-2012 at 06:43 PM.
    Sent from my Z10 or a soon to be BB10 PlayBook

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    #121  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Admorris View Post
    With Blackberry's aweful reputation, they are going to have to make an absolutely amazing phone, not just a good one. Anything less than a top shelf product will be a total failure. BB has pissed off enough loyalists over the years that there is a large contingent actually hoping they will go under.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

    Why do people even think thats a legit logical conclusion anymore??! Its a whole new OS. Not os 4 os 5 os 6 os 7 etc. Its not OS 8 Launching....geeze.
  22. andrew1953's Avatar
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    #122  

    Default Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?

    Why stop @ Windows? Why not iphone 5? Seriously if RIM through developers put out enough quality apps,BB10's could well make some serious in roads on those two. I thought the i5 was a pretty ordinary effort that has had alot of bad quality control and app issues. Apple is ripe for the picking!

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
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  23. SuperionMaximus's Avatar
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    #123  

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew1953 View Post
    Why stop @ Windows? Why not iphone 5? Seriously if RIM through developers put out enough quality apps,BB10's could well make some serious in roads on those two. I thought the i5 was a pretty ordinary effort that has had alot of bad quality control and app issues. Apple is ripe for the picking!

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    I agree that RIM will get most of its conquest sales from iOS. Those users will love the consistent and speedy experience and if the Big name apps are in App World then customers that are sick of the limitations of apple hardware and tired of iOS will likely see BB 10 as fresh and exciting. Android users may be turned off by the lack of customization available in the OS.
  24. Bobert_123's Avatar
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    #124  

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew1953 View Post
    Why stop @ Windows? Why not iphone 5? Seriously if RIM through developers put out enough quality apps,BB10's could well make some serious in roads on those two. I thought the i5 was a pretty ordinary effort that has had alot of bad quality control and app issues. Apple is ripe for the picking!

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    Bro that apple's rotting, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 meter stick!
    Sent from my Z10 or a soon to be BB10 PlayBook

    BlackBerry Curve 8530 (Virgin Mobile) -BlackBerry Bold 9900 (T-Mobile) BlackBerry Z10 (T-Mobile) + a deceased BlackBerry PlayBook 64 gig
  25. texazzpete's Avatar
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    #125  

    Default Re: Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperionMaximus View Post
    I agree that RIM will get most of its conquest sales from iOS. Those users will love the consistent and speedy experience and if the Big name apps are in App World then customers that are sick of the limitations of apple hardware and tired of iOS will likely see BB 10 as fresh and exciting. Android users may be turned off by the lack of customization available in the OS.
    You need to put some realism into this

    BB10 will not nearly catch up to iOS on the app front for ages. Certainly not in 2013...And many big name apps will remain missing for a while to come.
    Apple products still have the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the industry so you won't make many inroads there. Not to mention there's no low priced BB10 device on the horizon to wrest sales from those who find apple devices too expensive

    Android market share is much more vulnerable to erosion. There are way too many slow, laggy older devices still in play and a whole load of the average consumers who bought into Android didn't buy it because of customizations. Lots of people buy because they like the hardware, the screen size was excellent and because their carrier didn't have the Iphone. There's growth in these areas.

    Worrying for RIM, I don't see BB10 making any meaningful impact in the important Chinese market just yet. Too expensive... And no word on any deal with any of the big Chinese carriers.

    Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
    ADGrant and bb10_fan like this.
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