- 12-27-2012, 01:32 AM #52
I think the only thing that will kill Windows Phone is if Microsoft itself is bankrupt. Even if Windows Phone fails (and it isn't really failing) they will still trow a lot of money at it.
I really doubt it will be RIM that kills windows Phone. They have a lot of worries themselfs. I'm a big supporter of Blackberry, but if I see how the average human thinks of a Blackberry around here. Yesterday I saw a facebookthread about smartphones, praising iPhone and Samsung and mocking Blackberry (no word about Windows phone).
Blackberry has a lot of work to do before they get popular again.
- CrackBerry Abuser
12-27-2012, 03:14 AM #55
- 437 Posts
Could BlackBerry 10 kill Windows Phone?
ah. i used to feel the exact same way about the android player and had equally high hopes.
the android player will kill bb10 in the long run. rim will find itself in a difficult position when 70% of its apps are of android nature. i hope they get rid of it before launch.
Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
- 12-27-2012, 03:46 AM #56
How many tablets were going to be the ipad killer.....lets just launch, get profitable, and see where BlackBerry is when the dust settles....I for one, would be fine with 4th or 5th place...AND PROFITABLEQ 10 for the win!
(WHITE Z 10, on 10.2.1.537 and Nexus 4 sold)
Playbook 64 gb wifi
Galaxy tab P 1000 with cyanagen 9
- 12-27-2012, 03:59 AM #58
I know that I'm late to this party, but having handled the Nokia phones the most I liked about them were the physical aesthetics. I did not like W8 at all on the phone, while I don't mind it on my laptop.
Given what we've seen of BB10, my personal opinion is that BB10 should obliterate W8 devices. Sad for Nokia, I did like their phones and the camera is stellar.Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons; dragonslayers are crunchy, and good with ketchup
- 12-27-2012, 04:03 AM #59
- 12-27-2012, 04:05 AM #60
- CrackBerry User
12-27-2012, 06:02 AM #61
- 35 Posts
I do think 3 platforms is probably the most the industry can handle for 2 reasons: 1) apps, which has already been mentioned a bunch of times in this thread - over time, I suspect HTML5 will reduce the importance of native apps, but some apps will always be better as native; and 2) probably more important than 1), carrier support and subsidies. Carriers are giving WP8 a big push right now and it looks like they will do the same for BB10, as they want to ensure they are not reliant on 2 platforms. However, in 12 months time, I suspect one of them will no longer get the same love from carriers, so this next year will probably decide their fate, or at least decide their chances to be a real player. I do agree that mobile is too important and MS has too much money to just go away, and so it likely would mean they would need to look at buying RIM. Ultimately, alot of the problems set out in the OP's list are really a product of MS not controlling the whole product from OS to manufacturing. Android has the same problem, but given the carriers desire for a second platform a few years ago, the love from the carriers covered over all of Androids problems. MS does not have the same luxury. They have tried to change that with the Surface tablet, and if the rumours are true, they may also try it with a Surface phone, but by that point it may be too late with the carriers.
- 12-27-2012, 06:32 AM #64
Where's Symbian? All the members of the now defunct Symbian Foundation can be counted among current members of the Android Open Source Alliance. To bad for Nokia that all their former Symbian customers also overwhelmingly went with Android as well. They failed to convert their mighty user base to Windows Phone and essentially started over from scratch in a market they invented - Mobile Computing. Nokia should have known a user base of people who love customization and open source would hate Windows Phone. But when ya need the cash, and you hire a CEO used to performing fallatio on Steve Ballmer, that's what you end up with.
At least RIM made BB 10 for BlackBerry people and all signs point to a high rate of conversion for RIM with their existing user base so they are not starting at zero and Thorsten came from Siemens, so he has no allegiances to other companies that would want to buy RIM.
I do agree that all 4 Platforms will survive. But I believe that app support will be greater on BlackBerry 10 then on Windows Phone because the work RIM put in on creating a native SDK devs love and supporting the languages and tools they already use on the two leading platforms will make BlackBerry World the platform to develop for over Windows Phone.
- 12-27-2012, 06:40 AM #65
- 12-27-2012, 07:32 AM #66
In my view, only a fool would under-estimate Microsoft. No, it isn't guaranteed they can waltz in and take over (see Zune, Windows Mobile, Silverlight etc) but it would be extremely unwise to ignore them.------------------------------------
I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?
The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
- 12-27-2012, 08:41 AM #68
Let me start out by saying this: BlackBerry needs to defend it's third place, not win it back. Windows Phone has the potential to beat RIM and take it's third place, but is not at third place right now. However, I see both platforms being successful. Or at least a possibility of both platforms being successful.
I don't think BlackBerry 10 will win over iPhone or Android users. I think BlackBerry 10 could win over Windows Phone users. Any old WebOS fan will instantly fall in love with BlackBerry 10. Any old BlackBerry fan who switched to another platform will come back home once they see how awesome BlackBerry 10 is. They will say, "Wait, a software keyboard can be that awesome?" or "Why can't my iPhone connect me so well to my LinkedIn profile and Facebook profile?" And they will switch back to their trusted and loved BlackBerry. Within two years you will see this, not from everyone of course, but the majority of old BlackBerry fans. Remember, they wanted BlackBerry to do this years ago. And BlackBerry is better at mail, messaging, calender and browser then the other guys (at least with BlackBerry 10).
I also think non-smartphone users have a chance to switch from a dumb phone to a BlackBerry 10 device. Why do I say that? Well, one the keyboard. Most people who don't have a smartphone say I couldn't live with a touchscreen keyboard. That statement is usually false, of course, but that is what they think. So they will walk into a smartphone store, say to the salesman, "I want a smartphone, but I don't care for touch screen keyboard. I want to be able to check my email and text people, and I don't care about all those fancy smancy features." THe customer will pause, "And I really want to be able to browse the web. What do you have?" Any GOOD salesman will point to a new BlackBerry N-Series or BlackBerry C-Series (that Curve looking device) and say "These BlackBerry's are perfect for you."
Then when they get into the smartphone world, they will stay because BlackBerry 10 has everything the other guys have. And by the time a normal person would be able to switch (at least in America) two years after switching to BB10, BB10 will have tons of apps and there won't be a need to switch to get the latest Angry Birds or whatever is cool in the future. So they will just buy the latest BB10 device. Now some might think I am crazy, but my entire family, minus my Dad, started on a BlackBerry. My mom and my ex-wife has moved on to the iPhone 4, I moved from a BlackBerry Curve to a Windows Phone 7, to an Epic, then an Epic Touch 4G and now to a ... Windows Phone 8? BB10 Device? I don't know yet, I am stuck at which device I want.
But you see, it's possible and likely this situation will happen. But a similar situation will happen with Windows Phone 8. People will like having a similar platform as their computer. People will want a Nokia with their Surface. Or a Samsung with their Samsung PC. Or ... you see where I am going.
So BB10 has a chance. 2013 is RIM's final chance. I think, after watching Thorsten Heins at BlackBerry World, he is a very good salesman, like Steve Jobs was. Heins has this attitude that his product is good, and he and his whole company is working to make it better. I think next month RIM and Heins will show their vision of what a smartphone ecosystem looks like. And I think it will be awesome.
- CrackBerry Genius
12-27-2012, 08:53 AM #69
- 3,775 Posts
Sorry but carriers don't hire what you call "good" salespeople. Have you been in a carrier store lately... maybe with BB10 it will change, but right now BB's are are hidden away on a back shelf somewhere, and NO ONE is suggesting them to an undecided customer.
And if it takes two years for BB10 to have "tons of apps", then it will be game over for them in six months. But personally I don't think they need a huge library of apps, but all the major ones need to be there on DAY ONE. And within six months you need to start seeing company's that have iOS & Andorid Apps also supporting BB10 (really dumb name - but maybe it will transform into BBOS once BBOS is gone)
- CrackBerry Genius
12-27-2012, 09:42 AM #71
- 3,775 Posts
MS pockets are too deep to stay behind RIM.
Listen to NPR this morning and they were talking about the mobile industry this year and next, but they said that WP was not really seeing much traction yet. But that it might take 12-18 months for the new OS to see the support it needs. They didn't mention RIM and BB10, but did mention a report from iSupply that said Globally RIM had fallen to 5% of the smartphone market ( I assume coming from iSuppy that refers to sales, not actual marketshare)
Made me wonder, does RIM have 12 - 18 months if they don't see immediate increase in sales? I'm sure the first couple of months should be good, just from the die hard fans and those that have been holding off buying a new phone for a number of months. But what if it isn't an immediate hit with consumers, does RIM have the capital to operate for that long?
- 12-27-2012, 10:40 AM #72
Deep pockets don't guarantee traction, as Microsoft has shown with their current position in Mobile. And Microsoft has never had a mobile user base of 79 Million customers. RIM is in a perfect position with BB10 to migrate existing BBOS users to BB10, and try to win back customers that left for other platforms. Microsoft has to win customers they have never had, and in a market where traditional Microsoft products are being replaced by tablets and phones.
- 12-27-2012, 12:11 PM #73
- 12-27-2012, 01:48 PM #75
Prime display real estate goes two ways: It's selling well or the OEM pays for the spot.
It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time.
-Sir Winston Churchill
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