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  1. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #26  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kbz1960 View Post
    I think if that isn't fixed it means trouble.
    it is. Just forget the assumption that PB browser is similar to BB10 one.
    [cleaned, too much noise here]
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 12-01-2012 at 11:22 AM. Reason: stop shouting
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    Please stop chewing nonsenses, that's Geller's role (lol, back in topic).
    Yeah, webkit is all ... no doubt. That's why apple ios6 has a ...
    Ok, cut it out.
    Webkit is open source, Apple has contributed to it, as has RIM.
    Implementing Webkit doesn't mean that every implementation will be identical.
    Webkit is a rendering engine and it is REQUIRED for HTML to be rendered.
    You can't write an HTML rendering engine IN HTML, it doesn't make sense.

    This rant of yours has moved to ludicrous levels.
  3. kbz1960's Avatar
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    #28  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    it is. Just forget the assumption that PB browser is similar to BB10 one.
    IT.IS.NOT.AT.ALL.IS.THAT.LOUD.ENOUGH.TO.REMEMBER? (sorry kbz, not yelling @U )
    Gotcha. And would you quit shouting

    I assumed it will be better but then you read some saying it isn't that claim to know. I will take this English speaking Spanish cows word on it.
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    #29  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    Another brilliant assumption ...
    Attachment 126961

    + bookmarks with personal tags, different listing modes ...
    + what checkerboarding are you talking about ? I've got instant browsing.


    You just don't know much about dev, I believe.

    Ok, now I give up. Time for my family.
    "Block popups" is not the same as ad blocking.

    " bookmarks with personal tags, different listing modes" - yes Someone asked about bookmark organization and after some hemming and hawing, this is how the RIM guy answered that question. Watch the video link that you posted, it was in the Q&A portion. (They said something along the lines of drag and drop not being easy to do in a web app.)

    The reference to checkeboarding in around the 2/3rds mark of the video, when they were talking about singlethreading.

    You just don't know much about dev, I believe.
    If you were under the impression that the BB10 browser was written in html5 then you're not in any position to criticize anyone's programming knowledge.
    Last edited by notafanboy; 12-01-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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  5. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Saunders is being disingenious here, or at best simply misinformed
    Yeah, right. Obviously, you know better. What a joke.
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    #31  

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    Get the picture?
    For someone who chastises other's lack of developer knowledge, your own fundamental knowledge could use some work.
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Ok, cut it out.
    Webkit is open source, Apple has contributed to it, as has RIM.
    Implementing Webkit doesn't mean that every implementation will be identical.
    Webkit is a rendering engine and it is REQUIRED for HTML to be rendered.
    You can't write an HTML rendering engine IN HTML, it doesn't make sense.

    This rant of yours has moved to ludicrous levels.
    Well, if you read at my second post, it's written, clearly that the browser is webkit based. Of course it is.
    And I agree, I got my nerves - on purpose for other parts of this thread - I shouldn't have.
    My apologies for the collateral damages.
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #33  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Get the picture?
    For someone who chastises other's lack of developer knowledge, your own fundamental knowledge could use some work.
    ? did I state anything but that the browser was a web application ?
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  9. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #34  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    Please stop chewing nonsenses, that's Geller's role (lol, back in topic).
    Yeah, webkit is all ... no doubt. That's why apple ios6 has a ...
    I suspect you don't know how browsers work. I mean, to state that BB10 browser is all HTML5 code is just silly. That would be like saying C++ was written in C++. Webkit, developed by Apple BTW, is open source, basically meaning anybody has access to its source code. It is also under BSD License meaning anybody can manipulate it to make proprietary software. Webkit is the rendering engine behind pretty much every mobile browser except Opera and IE, basically, it's what translates the HTML on a webpage to something you can understand. Anybody who creates a Webkit based browser adds their own code to make it theirs. Thus the Safari, Android browser, Bada browser, WebOS browser, and even the BB browser are not all identical. Each company adds features based on what they believe their customers want. RIM has obviously decided that HTML5 compatibility is a feature they think their customers will appreciate, thus they went to a lot of trouble to make it highly compatible. Other companies probably think other features are more important, thus they didn't bother making theirs as HTML5 compatible.

    Here's the important part, so pay attention. If HTML5 compatibility was indeed some kind of monumentally important must have feature that will change the world and end LOLcatz forever, then the other major players with much larger resources would have already long ago implemented it. It's not a difficult task for companies with 10's of billions in cash along with some of the world's best talent. I bet if Google was motivated, they could easily make Chrome the most HTML5 compatible browser within 2 months. They won't though, because that's not what people care about.

    BB browser has been the most HTML5 compatible mobile browser since BBOS6. Did it really change RIM's fortunes? Basically, what that means is, it's a "meh" feature. The reason is because a high score on an HTML5 compatibility test is misleading. It basically means it's compatible with fringe features of HTML5, features that that vast vast vast vast vast majority of the world's websites don't yet use. Why would a website use obscure code that the majority if web browsers can't translate? To top it off, it's a mobile browser, meaning it's most likely going to access mobile websites most of the time, meaning less featured sites. People care about other features a whole lot more than HTML5 compatibility. Things like speed, ease of use, reliability, synced bookmarks, smooth transitions, and bunch of others. Most people don't even know what HTML5 is.
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by kbz1960 View Post
    Gotcha. And would you quit shouting
    I assumed it will be better but then you read some saying it isn't that claim to know. I will take this English speaking Spanish cows word on it.
    muchas gracias, lo siento.
    P.S: cleared the shout
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    #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Get the picture?
    For someone who chastises other's lack of developer knowledge, your own fundamental knowledge could use some work.
    RIM is partly to blame for the misconception as they keep bragging about writing the browser as a web app.

    When you look at the architectural layers, the "web app" portion called the browser application is actually the thinnest slice of the cake.
    If all four layers were represented as to scale, the top layer would be the thinnest layer of frosting on a hefty cake.:
  12. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #37  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    ? did I state anything but that the browser was a web application ?
    http://forums.crackberry.com/attachm...2.09.45-pm.png
    Your posts are making it sound like the reason the BB10 browser has such high HTML compliance is because it is a web app. That is simply untrue. It has high HTML5 scores because the underlying rendering engine is the webkit engine, modified by RIM.
    As described in the video, the browser is a combination of Webkit, middleware and HTML5/CSS/JS
    This is oversimplifying, but the portion of the BB10 browser that IS made with Web tools is mostly just the UI. All the heavy lifting is still done by the rendering engine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    Sure it is.

    But it is much much much much more : the browser IS HTML5. Yes, you read it perfectly well, don't think native,cascade nor air ... HTML5 that is.
    I don't have the count and/or how deep they went on the UI side but the browser is - as of date - not only the most compliant HTML5 browser ever (add Tizen) but also (one of ?) the greatest app ever developed WITH HTML5. So you can call it a "webapp"; can you imagine the gap ?


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    You also scoff at webkit here, making it seem like there is something else magical powering RIM's browser?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    Please stop chewing nonsenses, that's Geller's role (lol, back in topic).
    Yeah, webkit is all ... no doubt. That's why apple ios6 has a ...
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  13. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #38  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    I suspect you don't know how browsers work. I mean, to state that BB10 browser is all HTML5 code is just silly. That would be like saying C++ was written in C++. Webkit, developed by Apple BTW, is open source, basically meaning anybody has access to its source code. It is also under BSD License meaning anybody can manipulate it to make proprietary software. Webkit is the rendering engine behind pretty much every mobile browser except Opera and IE, basically, it's what translates the HTML on a webpage to something you can understand. Anybody who creates a Webkit based browser adds their own code to make it theirs. Thus the Safari, Android browser, Bada browser, WebOS browser, and even the BB browser are not all identical. Each company adds features based on what they believe their customers want. RIM has obviously decided that HTML5 compatibility is a feature they think their customers will appreciate, thus they went to a lot of trouble to make it highly compatible. Other companies probably think other features are more important, thus they didn't bother making theirs as HTML5 compatible.

    Here's the important part, so pay attention. If HTML5 compatibility was indeed some kind of monumentally important must have feature that will change the world, then the other major players with much larger resources would have already long ago implemented it. It's not a difficult task for companies with 10's of billions in cash along with some of the world's best talent. I bet if Google was motivated, they could easily make Chrome the most HTML5 compatible browser within 2 months. They won't though, because that's not what people care about.

    BB browser has been the most HTML5 compatible mobile browser since BBOS6. Did it really change RIM's fortunes? Basically, what that means is, it's a "meh" feature. The reason is a high score on HTML5 tests are misleading. It basically means it's compatible with fringe features of HTML5, features that that vast vast vast vast vast majority of the world's websites don't yet use. Why would a website use obscure code that the majority if web browsers can't translate? To top it off, it's a mobile browser, meaning it's most likely going to access mobile websites most of the time, meaning less featured sites. People care about other features a whole lot more than HTML5 compatibility. Things like speed, ease of use, reliability, synced bookmarks, smooth transitions, and bunch of others. Most people don't even know what HTML5 is.
    C'mon ... we are talking general audience here. Please.
    I know the difference between the app and the renderer.
    But might you want to explain the web platform stack, please do.

    For the rest, you forget about extensions (similar to apps for ios), "obscure code" of HTML5 like <video> tag (just jump on YT and disable flash), the desktop mode, ...
    But guys, I'm tired.
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  14. Superfly_FR's Avatar

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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #39  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    Your posts are making it sound like the reason the BB10 browser has such high HTML compliance is because it is a web app.
    Web platform stack.
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    #40  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly_FR View Post
    Web platform stack.
    What is that even supposed to mean? You think RIM is the only company with middleware between the rendering engine and web apps?
    It is EXACTLY the same on iOS, Android and WebOS.

    The middleware is also not made using web standards, it is native code, like the webkit engine.
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    #41  

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    Does this looks like a pure native app ? I don't think so

    http://i.imgur.com/3MKIr.jpg?1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-bb10-browser.jpg  
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    #42  

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    The html rendering is all in the OS, sort of like how IE is in Windows. It's a core component used not only in the browser, but in all those apps built in webworks. The browser is merely a front end (with html5 interface elements on top). So having cascades on top wouldn't make it any better because the Web rendering is already being used. The only benefit might be graphical effects that may not be implemented in their Web rendering engine. The engine in the OS is not just webkit (which they have built upon new features) but also javascript, and their hardware acceleration for these features and webgl. I haven't heard anything about their javascript engine so I am a bit concerned there, as I think that is a weakness on the PB. I'd like to see benchmarks not just for html5 compliance, but for rendering speeds, javascript speed, and webgl performance, with comparisons to other mobile browsers.
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    #43  

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    Agree, I like to see a better sunspider score (Javascript benchmark).
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    #44  

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    For people wanting to see tests done on different devices, here ya go. I didn't do the PlayBook or OS7 browser, because I'm guessing most of the people here already have those that they can try on their own.

    BlackBerry 10 Dev Alpha:
    CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-bb10-dev-alpha.jpg

    HTC 8x Windows Phone:
    CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-htc-x8.jpg

    Nokia Lumia 822
    CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-lumia-822.png

    Chrome (I actually re-installed it just for this test) on LG Nexus 4:
    CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-lg-nexus-4-chrome.jpg

    Stock Android browser on LG Optimus G:
    CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-lg-optimus-g-stock-browser.jpg
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    #45  

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    The only benefit I see building the browser as a webworks apps is so they can use js to more effect. It must not really matter that its not a Cascades app since if they needed a C/C++ performance they could. Using js probably is a means to an end for better plugin support I'm guessing.
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    #46  

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    Results means 95% confidence intervals on every one. For the time, dang do they have to step that up.......... fix it.
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    #47  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kbz1960 View Post
    Results means 95% confidence intervals on every one. For the time, dang do they have to step that up.......... fix it.
    Nah, heck they have a high HTML 5 score. That's all that matters.
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    Default Re: CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'

    Want to share the test result from alpha running on 10.0.9.1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-uploadfromtaptalk1354409023684.jpg  
    Last edited by aragone79; 12-01-2012 at 06:56 PM.
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    Default Re: CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'

    Quote Originally Posted by aragone79 View Post
    Want to share the test result from alpha running on 10.0.9.1
    Adding new
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CNET : BlackBerry 10 browser 'beats every desktop browser'-uploadfromtaptalk1354409823616.jpg  
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    iPhone 5.
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