Blackberry will be the new Apple

[Economist101]

Originally Posted by Palmless

PM me in Q3 or Q4 this year and we'll settle up.

Same here.

[mdarscott]

Interesting list, Palmless:

Ford ... who brought us the Edsel
IBM ... who brought us the PCjr
Walt Disney ... who brought us Chicken Little (now there's a company that never lost its soul after its founder died)
GE ... who brought us Fukushima
Westinghouse ... who brought us what exactly besides the demise of Tesla?

And, though you don't mention it, never to be forgotten:

Apple ... who brought us Lisa

You make a compelling case on why it is too early to give up on RIM.

[Palmless]

Originally Posted by mdarscott

Interesting list, Palmless:

Ford ... who brought us the Edsel
IBM ... who brought us the PCjr
Walt Disney ... who brought us Chicken Little (now there's a company that never lost its soul after its founder died)
GE ... who brought us Fukushima
Westinghouse ... who brought us what exactly besides the demise of Tesla?

And, though you don't mention it, never to be forgotten:

Apple ... who brought us Lisa

You make a compelling case on why it is too early to give up on RIM.

Uh, twisted humor I suppose, but what does that have to do with RIMM?

[i7guy]

Originally Posted by tchocky77

Apple TV is coming this year. They doing their textbooks thing. Apple is pretty much always looking for new areas to innovate in. RIM is not. Their whole business is phones and only phones, and they've allowed themselves to be bested by every meaningful metric. If there's anything a BB does better than iPhone, I'd like to know what it is.

Actually just about everything.

Apple is a great media consumption device. Up to OS 7 RIM not so much. Lest we forget beany babies and pet rocks were wildly popular and made their inventors millions. RIMs operating systems are better than IOS imo. Look at the amount of zero day vulnerabilities in IOS vs RIM. BB is easy to use while giving the power user enough to keep them happy.

Mobile safari suffers from a lot of limitations that the other table o/s's don't suffer from. People don't care as long as their facebook app works.

These limitations in my ipad have gotten annoying, along with the multiple browser crashes. RIM screwed up big time and is now paying the price, but the iphone imo is just a mediocre device.

[Mr.Willie]

Originally Posted by Batraben

<Snip> BB rocks whether like it or not and I advice you to leave the forum because it is meant for BB users and not apple.Am sure they are many platforms for apple where you can express your sympath for but not here....'Once BB always BB'

(Shining bright flashlight into your face.) "Excuse me sir, have you been drinking ?"

Posting while intoxicated is against the forum rules. (Well it should be anyway.)

I also like how you try to censure people. I am a BB user, but if there is something I don't like about BB, I do have the privilege to discuss it on here. I (and others) should also be able to disagree with you too.

[leftypepper716]

I'm not giving up on RIM but they are seriously hurting in the US market. Anything is possible about a RIM/BlackBerry comeback, but to even consider RIM ever being close to Apple's numbers really is like most here are saying, a "pipe dream" But I always root for the underdog, so RIM isn't totally out of the US market...just yet.

[mdarscott]

OK time to be a little more serious because I risk alienating people with my sense of humour.

I meant this as a discussion of the good things RIM is doing to turn BB around but we keep getting sidetracked into a discussion of Apple.

Things I meant to say:
1) Some of the glimpses of what RIM are up to with BB are very encouraging
2) Apple has done astonishingly well and continues to astonish me
3) It might be possible for RIM to turn it around like Apple did in 1997
4) (and this was just a throwaway, never meant to be the main discussion) Apple cannot continue to grow as quickly as they have forever - there just aren't enough universes for them to conquer - and maybe now is when we start to see a slackening of their growth.

What I never meant to say:
1) Apple and RIM will change places with RIM on top and Apple wiped out.
2) That Apple is finished, that their sales, share price, revenues, market cap, etc. will shrink
3) That I wish anything bad for Apple

My sincere hope is that Apple will continue to astonish us. What a great time it will be to live through if they can. And, contrary to what you may have read into what I have written here, I am optimistic for Apple. iPad sales will continue to soar, their Mac products still have a long future. But most of all, I am very curious to see what Apple will do with the television, a product in bad need of an overhaul from Apple.

I also hope that there will be room for RIM and a big comeback like Apple's.

[Mr.Willie]

Originally Posted by mdarscott

4) (and this was just a throwaway, never meant to be the main discussion) Apple cannot continue to grow as quickly as they have forever - there just aren't enough universes for them to conquer - and maybe now is when we start to see a slackening of their growth.

I also hope that there will be room for RIM and a big comeback like Apple's.

But number 4 is a valid discussion point, whether you meant it to be or not. There is plenty of room for Apple and RIM to both grow, both through first time users and hopefully with Google's changes in the TOS policy, the demise of Andriod.

I am very happy with my BB phone, but for most iPhone and iPad users (I use an iPad, but iOS doesn't do what I need it to do on a phone) RIM doesn't even come close. As I've said before, please give me a valid reason to switch to the Playbook.

[tchocky77]

You may have a very valid point about apple saturation. Eventually you just run out of customers. The thing is, Apple releases an improved phone like clockwork, every year. People's contracts expire every two years,....and a great many of them are heavily vested into the ecosystem. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say Apple's 2012 WILL be even bigger than 2011, with iPad 3 at the end of march (it's gonna have a retina display) and iPhone 5 (there'll be a new iOS about this time incorporating SAAB's mapping technology. Breathtaking, if you haven't seen it) in June. So it'll be a HUGE year. If BB10 is AMAZING and RIM doesn't fumble the release, they COULD cut into Apple's market a bit. And I actually hope that they do. I don't want to see the company that invented the market go away. Sadly though, I think it's more likely RIM will continue to hemmorhage north American users and businesses to two more phenomenal Apple products.

[i7guy]

Originally Posted by tchocky77

You may have a very valid point about apple saturation. snip. phenomenal Apple products.

I agree, except one man's phenomal is another man's just okay. There is no doubt apple has sales momentum, but it is not because their products are head and shoulders above the competition, it's because people buy into the "apple" thing. While the stock price reflects the companies sales and earnings, it doesn't make their product the "best" by a long shot.

[leftypepper716]

Originally Posted by tchocky77

You may have a very valid point about apple saturation. Eventually you just run out of customers. The thing is, Apple releases an improved phone like clockwork, every year. People's contracts expire every two years,....and a great many of them are heavily vested into the ecosystem. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say Apple's 2012 WILL be even bigger than 2011, with iPad 3 at the end of march (it's gonna have a retina display) and iPhone 5 (there'll be a new iOS about this time incorporating SAAB's mapping technology. Breathtaking, if you haven't seen it) in June. So it'll be a HUGE year. If BB10 is AMAZING and RIM doesn't fumble the release, they COULD cut into Apple's market a bit. And I actually hope that they do. I don't want to see the company that invented the market go away. Sadly though, I think it's more likely RIM will continue to hemmorhage north American users and businesses to two more phenomenal Apple products.

Sadly for RIM, they've lost another US Goverment department this week to iphone. While RIM is booming in the far east...it really is hurting big time in the United States. For RIM, this is going to be a long road ahead to even stay in business, reatail wise in the USA.

[BoldPreza]

Originally Posted by leftypepper716

I'm not giving up on RIM but they are seriously hurting in the US market. Anything is possible about a RIM/BlackBerry comeback, but to even consider RIM ever being close to Apple's numbers really is like most here are saying, a "pipe dream" But I always root for the underdog, so RIM isn't totally out of the US market...just yet.

Just a couple things to point out.

Getting that market share is not impossible. In fact RIM once had more than iPhone.
Second is that comebacks do happen with the right leadership. Apple is a perfect example as during the 90's they were nearly shut down and liquidated. Jobs was the right leader.
The Car industry actually has a lot of examples of this and one right now is Ford who was (unlike RIM) hemorrhaging money and market share just three years ago and is now riding a wave.

What should be taken from my nonsensical post is that its not as much of a pipe dream to see a company make a comeback as some would make it out to be.

[reeneebob]

The correct and important first step has been taken. To me, RIM had no chance as long as the co-CEO setup remained.

For the first time I think RIM took their head out of their a$$.


Sent from my brain using Tapatalk

[sam_b77]

Originally Posted by Economist101

You hit some of the highlights of the Samsung-Apple dust up, but you left some important things out. One, Samsung went further than you claim; they even went so far as to copy the power brick, the 30 pin sync cable, and the general design of the packaging. They also took Android, which looks nothing like iOS in its stock form, and turned it into something that looks just like iOS. You'll note there was no similar suit leveled at the Xoom, which wasn't delivered as an Android clone of the iPad. Be as critical as you want, but if you have to be disingenuous to make your point, it's a bad sign.

As far as patent trolls go, I think buying patents for enforcement is a bad thing. I also think what Honeywell is doing to Nest is a joke, but only because they don't offer a product like the Nest. But when you're actually building products using your patents, I can appreciate the need to protect them. If you don't, that's you.

Just an update to your post Economist and my findings:
I stand corrected and accede to your post completely on this one.
I went out to a movie with my better half, and since we had 15 min for the movie, I dragged her into a Samsung brand shop to play with the offerings. I came across the Samsung tablet in question(I forget the name). Since Apple has not sued Samsung in India (would be a futile effort since in India patents are laughed at) the tablet is on sale here. The tablet IS a complete copy of iOS. Their rendition of Android is a complete spinoff of iOS complete with the dock at the bottom of the screen. I only played with it for 2 minutes and right off the bat the similarity was plain as day. Even the device physically had the whole imitation thing going on. Apple did have ample reason to sue and win the case.

Only thing is that the damn thing was so laggy and sketchy that Apple should have let them sell it in markets and come out with an ad like the one Samsung came up with for their S2 and told people that copiers copy while the iPad is the original. I mean with all the copying the Samsung was a shadow of what the iPad 1 is.

That thing is pure hurt. If that's the best Android can do, iOS has nothing to worry about.

[Economist101]

Originally Posted by sam_b77

Just an update to your post Economist and my findings:
I stand corrected and accede to your post completely on this one.
I went out to a movie with my better half, and since we had 15 min for the movie, I dragged her into a Samsung brand shop to play with the offerings. I came across the Samsung tablet in question(I forget the name). Since Apple has not sued Samsung in India (would be a futile effort since in India patents are laughed at) the tablet is on sale here. The tablet IS a complete copy of iOS. Their rendition of Android is a complete spinoff of iOS complete with the dock at the bottom of the screen. I only played with it for 2 minutes and right of the bat the similarity was plain as day. Even the device physically had the whole imitation thing going on. Apple did have ample reason to sue and win the case.

Only thing is that the damn thing was so laggy and sketchy that Apple should have let them sell it in markets and come out with an ad like the one Samsung came up with for their S2 and told people that copiers copy while the iPad is the original. I mean with all the copying the Samsung was a shadow of what the iPad 1 is.

That thing is pure hurt. If that's the best Android can do, iOS has nothing to worry about.

You're a better man than I am.

I think there are two issues at play here, and your comment hits one more than the other. Business wise, though it might appear the main concern is Samsung's benefit from the "copying" (for lack of a better term), I think an equal concern is that someone uses the Galaxy Tab and thinks it's an iPad, and now they think the iPad has all sorts of interface issues that in reality it might not have.