BlackBerry voted second most aspirational Brand in India!

**deathwalkr** · 12-22-2011, 02:01 AM

Well at least here in India, RIM must be doing something right.

"BlackBerry voted second most aspirational Brand in India!"

The link:
http://in.blackberry.com/BRANDWAGON-...r-2011-2_1.pdf

**flash24** · 12-22-2011, 03:49 AM

RIM is huge in other countries, this doesn't surprise me.

**daveycrocket** · 12-22-2011, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by deathwalkr

Well at least here in India, RIM must be doing something right.

"BlackBerry voted second most aspirational Brand in India!"

The link:
http://in.blackberry.com/BRANDWAGON-...r-2011-2_1.pdf

With no disrepect meant, I think that the world in general does provide RIM with a huge user base but financial institutions seem to be blinkered as to the US market, no doubt this comment will produce protest, and the US market is big but I wonder now if it is begining to not reflect the rest of the world's trends, certainly in my own country, the UK, Blackberry is doing quite well. I also feel that some of the share price issue may be as a result of a slump in US markets.

No disrespect Guys

**deathwalkr** · 12-22-2011, 07:44 AM

Well out here in India, Apple aint all that strong except in Tablets and MP3 players.

Apple loses to BlackBerry in Indian market - The Times of India

a bit old data i know but should give an indication
"Apple accounted for 2.6% of India's smartphone shipments in the quarter ended June 30, trailing RIM's 15%, Samsung Electronics' 21% and Nokia's 46%, IDC estimates."

**scalemaster34** · 12-22-2011, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by daveycrocket

With no disrepect meant, I think that the world in general does provide RIM with a huge user base but financial institutions seem to be blinkered as to the US market, no doubt this comment will produce protest, and the US market is big but I wonder now if it is begining to not reflect the rest of the world's trends, certainly in my own country, the UK, Blackberry is doing quite well. I also feel that some of the share price issue may be as a result of a slump in US markets.

No disrespect Guys

If you look at the US Market as a whole and at RIM.... RIM is following it's own path to the bottom. RIM's stock does fluctuate along with the rest of the Market, but the 70% drop is all theirs.

And you have to wonder if RIM is doing so great all over the world, and is EXPECTED to continue to do good... why aren't foreign investors jumping on these low prices for RIM's stock?

**DannyAves** · 12-22-2011, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by daveycrocket

With no disrepect meant, I think that the world in general does provide RIM with a huge user base but financial institutions seem to be blinkered as to the US market, no doubt this comment will produce protest, and the US market is big but I wonder now if it is begining to not reflect the rest of the world's trends, certainly in my own country, the UK, Blackberry is doing quite well. I also feel that some of the share price issue may be as a result of a slump in US markets.

No disrespect Guys

Perhaps if RIM was located a few hundred miles to the south the American media might treat them a bit differently.

**West Coast Flavor** · 12-22-2011, 08:56 AM

I think the United states is the only place you can get an iPhone for 200 bucks. Not sure. But if that's the case I wouldn't be shocked if rim became the tony Montana of the smartphone world. Cheaper price, great product. Bow!

**sam_b77** · 12-22-2011, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by scalemaster34

If you look at the US Market as a whole and at RIM.... RIM is following it's own path to the bottom. RIM's stock does fluctuate along with the rest of the Market, but the 70% drop is all theirs.

And you have to wonder if RIM is doing so great all over the world, and is EXPECTED to continue to do good... why aren't foreign investors jumping on these low prices for RIM's stock?

Because that's not how stock markets work.
Foreign investors are not long term partners in a company (actually neither are local investors, that is just theory). Foreign investors buy a stock to make a short term to mid term profit. They are not in it for the long haul.

Also no one wants to seem to be second guess the US Institutional investors. And not to forget that the big ticket investors in the global market are usually American Investors. Generally American Investors and Hedge Funds are the big "foreign investors" in the globe.

**rootbrain** · 12-23-2011, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by scalemaster34

If you look at the US Market as a whole and at RIM.... RIM is following it's own path to the bottom. RIM's stock does fluctuate along with the rest of the Market, but the 70% drop is all theirs.

And you have to wonder if RIM is doing so great all over the world, and is EXPECTED to continue to do good... why aren't foreign investors jumping on these low prices for RIM's stock?

Because with constant delays, pushing out interim solutions with substandard hardware and functionality (even though with good build quality) RIMM has not shown that it can deliver. They are like Nokia and regardless of the number of users in emerging markets, they, and their stock in response, will flounder.

And remember, one of the reasons that Blackberry is still a viable alternative in places like India, China, Indonesia is because they haven't the network (LTE/4G) infrastructure to take advantage of the new technology. It's coming but not yet ready for prime time. The North American and European markets are better situated for the fast pace of the new tech. That's why Google I think will win. They're nimble and working with multitudes of manufacturers on bringing 4G to the masses. iOS just wants to stay

and Blackberry was blindsided, like Nokia and Palm before it.

**BBMforLife** · 12-23-2011, 02:38 PM

Congrats but it should be number 1!

**addicted44** · 12-23-2011, 02:50 PM

I wouldn't hang my hat on a country where Nokia is the biggest seller. I mean, despite it's troubles, RIM is doing a lot better than Nokia.

Apple doesn't do well in India because they frankly don't care about the market. They have 0 Apple Stores and no plans to build any. They are almost completely priced out of the market (the 3GS is selling at 4 times the price of the cheapest Android phones).

RIM's only worry in India is Android, but I don't think Android can dent the hold BBM has here. Also, the networks are terrible (especially at data. We seem to be stuck at Edge speeds) so Android/iOS's main advantages (internet browsing, and apps, many of which depend on the Internet) are nullified.

**anthogag** · 12-23-2011, 03:09 PM

I saw a graph showing a breakdown of RIM shareholders and it looks like it's all north american. This would explain why a decline in this market is scaring investors even though RIM is doing well in other parts of the world. These investors see the US as the leading country and they assume what happens there dictates what happens everywhere else.

i.e. 'if you can make-it in the US you can make it anywhere'

**sam_b77** · 12-23-2011, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by rootbrain

Because with constant delays, pushing out interim solutions with substandard hardware and functionality (even though with good build quality) RIMM has not shown that it can deliver. They are like Nokia and regardless of the number of users in emerging markets, they, and their stock in response, will flounder.

And remember, one of the reasons that Blackberry is still a viable alternative in places like India, China, Indonesia is because they haven't the network (LTE/4G) infrastructure to take advantage of the new technology. It's coming but not yet ready for prime time. The North American and European markets are better situated for the fast pace of the new tech. That's why Google I think will win. They're nimble and working with multitudes of manufacturers on bringing 4G to the masses. iOS just wants to stay

and Blackberry was blindsided, like Nokia and Palm before it.

By your logic the 2g iPhones should be selling like hot cakes in India. They are not. No one even bothers with iPhones.2g or 3g. Retailers don't even stock them for one because the sales are so poor.

India is fully 3g enabled and the iPhone 4s and iPhone 4 is a blink and you miss device. As for LTE, even the US isn't fully LTE enabled, so the LTE myth is neither here nor there. And by the time US is 60% LTE enabled, India will be 90% LTE enabled, simply because the Indian carriers are far bigger and richer than US carriers and they don't have legacy infrastructure to pay off
They have the money to buy the best when they want to.
Won't be long before Chinese and Indian carriers buy some American Carriers. They just dont have the economies of scale to exist in the global markets.

**deathwalkr** · 12-23-2011, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by addicted44

I wouldn't hang my hat on a country where Nokia is the biggest seller. I mean, despite it's troubles, RIM is doing a lot better than Nokia.

Apple doesn't do well in India because they frankly don't care about the market. They have 0 Apple Stores and no plans to build any. They are almost completely priced out of the market (the 3GS is selling at 4 times the price of the cheapest Android phones).

RIM's only worry in India is Android, but I don't think Android can dent the hold BBM has here. Also, the networks are terrible (especially at data. We seem to be stuck at Edge speeds) so Android/iOS's main advantages (internet browsing, and apps, many of which depend on the Internet) are nullified.

Apple does have their stores in India. They have their premium resellers and authorised resellers as well. But yes agree with you on the price part and the fact that they do not seem to care about the Indian market. Good for RIM i say

**Doc Z** · 12-24-2011, 02:55 AM

RIM's success in other countries will change soon as well, Apple and Android will do the same thing in other countries as they did in the US sooner or later.

**deathwalkr** · 12-24-2011, 05:27 AM

Apple would take a long time to establish out here in India. They are a small presence in terms of manpower and market visibility.

And they are still going through the carriers for selling their phones. We Indians prefer to buy network independent phones right from a mobile shop and use whatever carrier we want with it.

Could it happen? Who knows? All i'm saying is that Apple vs RIM in India is still strongly favouring RIM right now

In our stores, if we sell 100 BBs a month, then iPhone would be just 5-10.

Go RIM

**dandbj13** · 12-24-2011, 09:54 AM

Isn't it time we stop pretending that RIM's success in third-world, under developed, developing (can't keep up with political correctness) nations has to do with anything other than the fact that BB is cheap compared to more premiums brands. Every reason you can think of for RIM's popularity in such places comes down to money. This is not sustainable.

RIM knows better as they have delayed the new phones for the sake of appeasing one carrier in the world, Verizon. RIM knows that they do not have a future without a strong, US showing.

I wonder how expensive luxury cars do in such places compared to bicycles?

**ekv** · 12-24-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by sam_b77

By your logic the 2g iPhones should be selling like hot cakes in India. They are not. No one even bothers with iPhones.2g or 3g. Retailers don't even stock them for one because the sales are so poor.

India is fully 3g enabled and the iPhone 4s and iPhone 4 is a blink and you miss device. As for LTE, even the US isn't fully LTE enabled, so the LTE myth is neither here nor there. And by the time US is 60% LTE enabled, India will be 90% LTE enabled, simply because the Indian carriers are far bigger and richer than US carriers and they don't have legacy infrastructure to pay off
They have the money to buy the best when they want to.
Won't be long before Chinese and Indian carriers buy some American Carriers. They just dont have the economies of scale to exist in the global markets.

No. I don't agree. 3G is not available in India out of the major cities. I am not sure about north, but down south we don't get 3G anywhere if you cross city limits.

3G is not even uniform inside the city in some areas. When was the last time you travelled down south and how was your 3G out of big cities. When I was using 3G I always had to keep my BB in dual mode because keeping it in 3G only mode makes me loose signal in some areas and I constantly need to check if I do have a signal.

But in a blackberry I don't miss 3G at all. 2g bis speed is better than non blackberry 2g.
People whose primary use is Internet would not buy a BB. they are better with a iOS or an android device. Non BB 3G is cheaper than BB 3G.

I am happy that BB is still one of the top contenders in India. I don't see it changing anytime soon. And the price of ios devices are helping BB stay on top. iPhone 4s costs More than my motor bike.

**sam_b77** · 12-24-2011, 12:19 PM

I forgot about South India. No biggie, that's not India anyway. We in the North are ready to disown you

.

**moretreelessbush** · 12-24-2011, 12:26 PM

Good news, this makes more important RIM makes India govt (and Indonesia, etc) happy.

**Vanti** · 12-25-2011, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by daveycrocket

With no disrepect meant, I think that the world in general does provide RIM with a huge user base but financial institutions seem to be blinkered as to the US market, no doubt this comment will produce protest, and the US market is big but I wonder now if it is begining to not reflect the rest of the world's trends, certainly in my own country, the UK, Blackberry is doing quite well. I also feel that some of the share price issue may be as a result of a slump in US markets.

Well i would have to agree with you on this one. As an american i can easily see that were the spoiled Daughter that has to have everything first and the best. But then again were also not the highest on the educational level as other countries and as i stated previously were spoiled so how could we reflect the trends of other nations....

**Cleveland** · 12-25-2011, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by sam_b77

By your logic the 2g iPhones should be selling like hot cakes in India. They are not. No one even bothers with iPhones.2g or 3g. Retailers don't even stock them for one because the sales are so poor.

India is fully 3g enabled and the iPhone 4s and iPhone 4 is a blink and you miss device. As for LTE, even the US isn't fully LTE enabled, so the LTE myth is neither here nor there. And by the time US is 60% LTE enabled, India will be 90% LTE enabled, simply because the Indian carriers are far bigger and richer than US carriers and they don't have legacy infrastructure to pay off
They have the money to buy the best when they want to.
Won't be long before Chinese and Indian carriers buy some American Carriers. They just dont have the economies of scale to exist in the global markets.

Are you blind ? Or just didn't read this in the link ....

Sales for the world's biggest company by market value are hindered because Indian wireless carriers, which started third-generation networks this year, have yet to offer nationwide services fast enough to take advantage of iPhone features

That's why there are fewer iPhones in India than anywhere else ... Once they have nationwide 3G we'll see who becomes #1

**sam_b77** · 12-25-2011, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by cleverocks22

Are you blind ? Or just didn't read this in the link ....

Sales for the world's biggest company by market value are hindered because Indian wireless carriers, which started third-generation networks this year, have yet to offer nationwide services fast enough to take advantage of iPhone features

That's why there are fewer iPhones in India than anywhere else ... Once they have nationwide 3G we'll see who becomes #1

You can live in your Apple cool aid drinking world.

When everyone you know is in BBM it would not a lot more than 3g availability to switch to an ecosystem which has no users.

If anything, people would buy the Android. Simply because Android does everything the iPhone doesand does it better.

RIM has its user base, but iPhone's user base is easily attracted towards Android. You don't see it yet, but if you stop drinking Apple cool aid, you will see that the trend toward Android should Alarm iPhone as well.

**Cleveland** · 12-25-2011, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by sam_b77

You can live in your Apple cool aid drinking world.

When everyone you know is in BBM it would not a lot more than 3g availability to switch to an ecosystem which has no users.

If anything, people would buy the Android. Simply because Android does everything the iPhone doesand does it better.

RIM has its user base, but iPhone's user base is easily attracted towards Android. You don't see it yet, but if you stop drinking Apple cool aid, you will see that the trend toward Android should Alarm iPhone as well.

I left the bb Kool aid drinking world over two years ago, ssdd when it comes to RIM and all their fans drinking their Kool aid keep saying the change is coming.... Lmao that's what everyone said two years ago when I left

Nothing has changed ... Except I'm not rebooting my phone 3-4-5-100 times a day due I memory leaks and freezing up

And apple Kool aid ? There's not an apple device I have that doesn't work like devices should .. My MB Pro, my iPhone 4S and yes my iPad 2

**deathwalkr** · 12-25-2011, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by cleverocks22

Are you blind ? Or just didn't read this in the link ....

Sales for the world's biggest company by market value are hindered because Indian wireless carriers, which started third-generation networks this year, have yet to offer nationwide services fast enough to take advantage of iPhone features

That's why there are fewer iPhones in India than anywhere else ... Once they have nationwide 3G we'll see who becomes #1

Not having a 100% 3G enabled network ecosystem could be a reason. But even if we do get ourselves to being that, Apple still has its work cut out for them.

Like i mentioned in an earlier post, in India, mobiles are sold from numerous shops who make a living selling them. We generally loathe to buy a phone from a network operator and hate being tied up with one network even more.

4 years back RIM were selling their phones through operators like Airtel and Vodafone. But they realized they were not getting anywhere and started coming out with Network independent phones and taking it to the open market. Sales boomed. Now they have a solid workforce taking care of sales, marketing, service and other areas ably supported by a nationwide distributor network and store demonstrators to push BB onto the customers who walk into their stores looking for a smartphone.

Bear in mind we are still an emerging market when it comes to Smartphones and while we are one of the largest markets in terms of mobile users, our smartphone market is just gaining speed. Good time to be here if you are a smartphone manufacturer.

Apple still persists in going through these networks mainly because their support team is still very weak. They are a small team in India and hence they give their phones to the operators and trust them to sell their phones for them. Which is just not working out.

So whew as i was saying not being a 100% 3G nation is not why Apple is selling in India.

Now i need a coffee break