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  1. jonty12's Avatar
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    #26  

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    Also, I'm not sure why people assume higher pixel count will mean lower quality optics. Assuming similar optics and processors, higher pixel count is better. Let's keep one independent variable in this comparison, not a bunch. Make for a more logical discussion.
  2. Professional_Tickle_Fighter's Avatar
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    #27  

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    LOL, "Attn Thorsten: Pay attention" Priceless.........
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  3. DisturbedRocks31's Avatar
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    #28  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstarett View Post
    Than you have your people who say I bought that 8mp and it was worse than my 5mp. The OS does not make a difference but the actual camera software which has been proven over and over again on countless sites...even on this one. Rim will never be able to match Samsung or come out close to their specs and if that is what you want than you need to go android. RIM makes phones and runs a mobile service. Samsung makes EVERYTHING else! Their R&D budget allows them to do this which I doubt RIM can come close to what Samsung can.
    That's it though, you can't say that "you need to go Android" if you truly wish BlackBerry to be #1 phones. RIM doesn't need to exceed Samsung's specs, they merely need to stay in the game.

    What I don't want to see is everyone offers 10+MP while BBs are still on 5-8MP range. These are the kind of things people brag about. Whether or not they actually need it...
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    #29  

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    Most people I know don't have a clue what specs are under the hood of their phone whether it is processors or mps. They do know if it lags or takes crappy pictures though. I don't expect lag or crappy pictures from the new BB phones.
  5. LazyEvul's Avatar
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    #30  

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisturbedRocks31 View Post
    What I don't want to see is everyone offers 10+MP while BBs are still on 5-8MP range. These are the kind of things people brag about. Whether or not they actually need it...
    This is absolutely true. As much as I hate the megapixel wars, RIM will need to remain competitive even on paper. Thankfully, I'm confident that Thorsten Heins knows this very well.
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  6. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #31  

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    Specs only matter to the uninformed, keep up with the Jones's type of buyer. RIM does not cater to this buyer.

    Besides, if it was all about the specs, why do Mac's sell? Their hardware specs don't match up to Windows machine specs. Android is used on many different devices, just like windows is used on many variations of PCs. The hardware makes up for the inefficiencies in the software in these cases. Mac OS is written around predetermined hardware, and will run smoother/faster with lower hardware specs because they are matched to each other.

    Why don't we understand that specs sell....?? Why don't you understand that we just don't care about specs? Its about function. An 800 hp 6000 lbs truck is still not as fast as a 550 hp 3000 lbs car. I know I know, you want the 900 hp 2500 lbs car because that sells better in your world....

    FYI, a Z06 Corvette (505 hp) out performs a ZR1 Corvette (650 hp) on a practical front, proven so on a race track. If a BB10 can outperform the others with less hardware, what does it matter the hardware specs. To me it proves the OS is simply head and shoulders above the competition.
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    #32  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstarett View Post
    Here we go again with the specs...just because the numbers are higher does not make it better. This has been proven from multiple phones and camera across the board.
    So, by your reckoning, my wife's 2MP camera on here phone is no worse than my SGS3 8MP snapper?
    BB's so-far.... 8300, 8330, 8707v, 8900, 9000, 9105, 9300, 9700, 9780, 9800, 9860, 9900, 9860, 32gb Playbook, Ipad2, another BNIB 9700., and now back to my all-time favourite - the 9105! Whooaa. Scrap that. I have just took the plunge and bought a shiny new white Z10.

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  8. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #33  

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegas33139 View Post
    So, by your reckoning, my wife's 2MP camera on here phone is no worse than my SGS3 8MP snapper?
    I wouldn't say as much, but there is a threshold point where the pixel density on a imager chip, even with full frame professional DSLRs, when the pixel density reaches a certain point, certain aspects of image quality begin degrading. The first is low light image quality. Also colors get dull, noise/grain is more prevalent. Its a typical technology curve. Sure, as technology advances, the pixel density and quality increase, but a 10+ MP imager in a phone will have crap low light images as compared to an equal size 8 MP imager.

    The image sensors (CMOS chip or CCD chip) are the same size, they are just increasing the density of pixels on said sensors, and as that pixel density increases, quality decreases.
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    #34  

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmalloy View Post
    Never understand why users somehow think that the "Bleeding Edge' in specs is so important..... it is a combination of specs and OS that sums up a users experience.... the best example is IOS... I have 1st gerneration Ipad and an Ipad 3..... there is an ever so slight speed difference in between them.... but on a whole work identical... ( At least in the Apps I run ).... the hardware specs are defiinately better on hte Ipad 3 but because the IOS is engineered for cross hardware comaptibilty IOS runs pretty much the same on all devices.... Give me an efficient OS on mid level hardware versus "state of the art" hardware with a less efficent OS any day of the week... Just look at the difference between Vista and Windows.... all this being said... specs do matter more in marketing... many users want the latest and greatest in hardware..... this is the fine line RIM has to walk to have a successful BB10 lauch....
    Considering they've had almost 6 years to tweak their OS, they should function almost across the board. In fact, they've ridden the pony so long I'm hearing and seeing complaints about staleness, and they finally made a change to the form factor, which was met with a mixed reaction in some places.
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  10. DisturbedRocks31's Avatar
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    #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    Specs only matter to the uninformed, keep up with the Jones's type of buyer. RIM does not cater to this buyer.
    The biggest problem is that you don't understand that most people, the people who will need to buy in order for RIM to stay relevant, are the "uninformed Jones's type of buyers."

    Specs don't matter (to a certain point) but that fact only makes sense to people who understand technology. RIM needs to sell BBs to these people - which means - that they need to match specs even if "they don't matter."
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  11. missing_K-W's Avatar
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    #36  

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    QNX was designed for maximum performance on minimal hardware. Our almost 2 year old PB still runs circles around many current quadcore devices.
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    #37  

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    As for the camera, they are improving, and while not on the level of a DSLR, they do at least let the amateur have access to a better experience. And if you don't think better specs sell, there are 30-plus million new SIII users who will disagree with a blasted assumption that improvements don't sell, or make for a better user experience. Add that to tbe Galaxy II, Note and Note 2 users, that makes a pretty big swing versus what has stalled in the last year BlackBerry has been re-tooling their OS. Some of those folks will have those devices for another year and a half. Not the tech hungry, just the average users.
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  13. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #38  

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisturbedRocks31 View Post
    The biggest problem is that you don't understand that most people, the people who will need to buy in order for RIM to stay relevant, are the "uninformed Jones's type of buyers."

    Specs don't matter (to a certain point) but that fact only makes sense to people who understand technology. RIM needs to sell BBs to these people - which means - that they need to match specs even if "they don't matter."
    Specs should not be the sole selling point. I certainly understand the nation of uninformed sheep who buy things in life based on specs and stats. But like stats, specs are like bikinis, they are suggestive at best.

    Big giant 90" LCD televisions, but the same 1080p resolution as my 42". Diesel trucks that will yank a house down, and turn it into a child safety seat equipped grocery getter....

    Understanding the buyer doesn't matter to me. It just doesn't. I don't think that way. Like I don't think that just because a certain product that has sold the most among its market makes its better.

    I'm not a Blackberry user because I want them to sell the most phones. It's because I feel they make the most intuitive devices.
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  14. DisturbedRocks31's Avatar
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    #39  

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    And that's why you're the buyer and not the seller

    You are ONE customer, on the other side are 100s of people who will buy a phone because it has a great 8MP camera.

    You're right, I even agree to pretty much everything you said BUT that's not a good way to make a comeback for RIM.

    Quote Originally Posted by SixStringMadness View Post
    Specs should not be the sole selling point. I certainly understand the nation of uninformed sheep who buy things in life based on specs and stats. But like stats, specs are like bikinis, they are suggestive at best.

    Big giant 90" LCD televisions, but the same 1080p resolution as my 42". Diesel trucks that will yank a house down, and turn it into a child safety seat equipped grocery getter....

    Understanding the buyer doesn't matter to me. It just doesn't. I don't think that way. Like I don't think that just because a certain product that has sold the most among its market makes its better.

    I'm not a Blackberry user because I want them to sell the most phones. It's because I feel they make the most intuitive devices.
  15. SixStringMadness's Avatar
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    #40  

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisturbedRocks31 View Post
    And that's why you're the buyer and not the seller

    You are ONE customer, on the other side are 100s of people who will buy a phone because it has a great 8MP camera.

    You're right, I even agree to pretty much everything you said BUT that's not a good way to make a comeback for RIM.
    I understand this all to well.

    But, if Steve Jobs can be viewed as the almighty god of innovation for resurrecting Apple, then RIM can make a great comeback with slightly lesser hardware specs.
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    #41  

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    Quote Originally Posted by DisturbedRocks31 View Post
    And that's why you're the buyer and not the seller

    You are ONE customer, on the other side are 100s of people who will buy a phone because it has a great 8MP camera.

    You're right, I even agree to pretty much everything you said BUT that's not a good way to make a comeback for RIM.
    I've think that most people who keep up with tech underestimate specs and numbers to the uninformed buyer. To be honest most people nowadays are not uninformed on the next phone they will buy because they have most likely seen a friend with or saw a phone that was appealing enough to consider purchasing so that's where marketing will come into play. If RIM cannot keep up with the spec war their flagship phones will always be considered mid-range to the "keeping up with the jones buyer" and your product line becomes obsolete for everyone except loyal customers. If you cannot sell specs you only have one chance to sell the experience and if your experience is subpar and you don't have cutting edge hardware you won't get too many second chances. Even ZTE and Huawei have a quadcore 1080p phones coming out in January and April. The "Aristo" is still rumored so RIM will have to keep pace and I don't see six different phones coming out this year. I think it'll be a race between the sheer quantity of flagship android phones launched vs the speed of 3rd party support for BB10 that will make or break the platform.
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    #42  

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    There's no reason RIM can't have the best mobile OS in the world AND have some killer specs to go with it. It's not like those two areas are mutually exclusive. Android's hardware is getting better but so is the software. There's no tradeoff saying processing power has to go down when usability goes up or vice versa. You can argue all you want what RIM needs to do, but I want to have it all with my Z10.
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    #43  

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    Keep in mind that Android manufacturers haven't really been in a spec race concerning megapixels at all. High end Android phones have had 8mp cameras for at least a year and a half. It seems more focus has been aimed on improving video shooters. Knowing how much everything else changes, I guess it's only fitting that they try to beef megapixels up now. But I completely agree that lens quality and all that matters more than the megapixels on paper. Even though my SKLX09 and BB9700 had the same megapixels, the 9700 took noticeably better shots. Plus there has been some variance between pics taken with different 8mp cameras in the Android phones I've had.
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    #44  

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    I think what we need here is a octo-core, 4ghz, 6gb RAM, 18MP front and rear racing camera. Will that do?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesseh View Post
    I think what we need here is a octo-core, 4ghz, 6gb RAM, 18MP front and rear racing camera. Will that do?
    If RIM can do that with BB10, yep that'll do it!
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    QNX has a theoretical limit of 32 CPU cores if I remember correctly... one day, one day
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    How many of these people that gripe about the cam specs are actually going to use the cam for purposes other then posting pics on their facebook account? Wow did you see how the pic of that macaroni and cheese that I just ate fifteen minutes ago looked? It would not have looked like this had I only had a 12 megapixel cam!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesseh View Post
    I think what we need here is a octo-core, 4ghz, 6gb RAM, 18MP front and rear racing camera. Will that do?
    NO! Not good enough! Maybe for six months usage if that. LOL
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    The screen was also in the 450 ppsi neighborhood...
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    #50  

    Default Att: Thorsten, pay attention

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank2029 View Post
    Why is it so hard for any of you to understand specs sell?? For everything!! People think that a higher number means a better product. THAT sells. It doesnt matter what it really can do. People dont care.

    If RIM wants to sell phones they should work on a crazy spec'd out device. And i pray to god RIM does not sell curve similar BB10 products here in North America. That is what brough RIM down. They need 1 or 2 flagship and keep it that way!!!
    Not hard for me to understand that some folks need the latest and greatest specs but I also understand that people will get tired of getting the top speced device only to be out speced 90 days later. I also understand that BlackBerry10 is Blazingly fast on a dual core and all a quad core will do is eat up the battery. I also understand that Apple does quite well selling phones and they are not in a spec race at all because the OS unlike Android is efficient. Windows phone 8 doesn't seem to care about a spec race either as again the OS unlike Android is efficient and doesn't need it. Specs only really matter in the Android world and to a niche group of device nerds who get more turned on by a quad core than they would with Penelope Cruz.

    I could be wrong ..and so could Apple and Windows phone and RIM as they have stated they are not in a spec race but rather an experience race...why is this si hard for you to understand? Are you a part of that niche group that I just referred to?

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