[RubberChicken76]

RIM stock bounce reminiscent of doomed Palm rally: UBS - The Globe and Mail

Philip is back with more RIM bashing and the same tired "RIM is like Palm" argument. Makes me think none of these people actually do a comparison at anything but a superficial level.

[TheStoof]

It's hardly down. In fact, it's 3 days before "bad news" is released.

[Superfly_FR]

No drama. Keep calm. Profit taking.

[Thunderbuck]

RIM stock bounce reminiscent of doomed Palm rally: UBS - The Globe and Mail

Philip is back with more RIM bashing and the same tired "RIM is like Palm" argument. Makes me think none of these people actually do a comparison at anything but a superficial level.

It's an easy, sensational angle. The argument has been refuted here time and time again. Nothing to see here...

[steven4u2nv]

Well I believe in RIMM and BB10. This just helps out my portfolio!

[steven4u2nv]

Exactly. Not to mention all of those people who shorted on RIM are now eating crow.

[simu31]

Anyone who believes making the comparison between Palm and RIM is in any way logical obviously has no idea what they're talking about and shouldn't be listened to or even given the time of day.

The next time anyone tries giving that comparison, just ask them what Palm's installed customer base was when they were launching the Pre. That alone changes everything and makes the comparison irrelevant.

Si.

[GTiLeo]

its like the nortel comparisons

[BBPandy]

RIM like Palm? People are STILL making those arguments? I thought they had stopped after people finally saw how stupid they were....Guess Philip didn't get the RIM Basher's memo to move onto something else.

[johnny_larue]

As a newbie here, I'd like to know what the argument is. Could any of you link me to a thread that explains why RIM won't be another Palm? I am buying an L-series phone regardless, but I would feel better about it if I knew the company were to keep on living.

[BThunderW]

Palm actually had a pretty solid product, unfortunately they ran out of cash before they had a chance to fully push it out. Last quarter RIM has $2.3 Billion in cash. Analysts calculate RIM needs about 2 Billion to launch BB10 and survive 2013. So unless ER shows that the cash reserves have been depleted, we're good to go.

[johnny_larue]

Palm actually had a pretty solid product, unfortunately they ran out of cash before they had a chance to fully push it out. Last quarter RIM has $2.3 Billion in cash. Analysts calculate RIM needs about 2 Billion to launch BB10 and survive 2013. So unless ER shows that the cash reserves have been depleted, we're good to go.

So this is pretty much make or break for RIM.

[BThunderW]

Yeah. At least in the mobile phone market.

So this is pretty much make or break for RIM.

[RubberChicken76]

As a newbie here, I'd like to know what the argument is. Could any of you link me to a thread that explains why RIM won't be another Palm? I am buying an L-series phone regardless, but I would feel better about it if I knew the company were to keep on living.

RIM is starting from a much more solid place.

When WebOS launched, Palm only had a few hundred million dollars and ran out of money. RIM's balance is in the billions

When WebOS launched, Palm's userbase was very, very small in comparison to RIM's 80 million users and they were only shipping a fraction as many devices as RIM is even now

When WebOS launched, Palm has quite a heavy debtload and their financials included ominous statements like "forced into bankruptcy" and "our ability to continue is a going concern". RIM has no debt whatsoever in comparison.

When WebOS launched, IIRC, Palm had fewer than 1000 apps in their app store. Rumours are that RIM will launch with excess of 100,000.

In short, RIM's in a better state to fight than Palm was. Palm ran out of money fast.

[BThunderW]

I think you mean 100,000

When WebOS launched, IIRC, Palm had fewer than 1000 apps in their app store. Rumours are that RIM will launch with excess of 1000.

[RubberChicken76]

Palm actually had a pretty solid product, unfortunately they ran out of cash before they had a chance to fully push it out. Last quarter RIM has $2.3 Billion in cash. Analysts calculate RIM needs about 2 Billion to launch BB10 and survive 2013. So unless ER shows that the cash reserves have been depleted, we're good to go.

Not exactly. Think of RIM's "2.3 billion" akin to your savings account. You have more coming in and more going out than what's common in your savings account. Obviously you want to be careful, but you could get a loan, reduce the number of times you eat out a week and change that balance. But it's not like "2.3 billion is all they have to live on".

Nor do I buy "make or break". They could downsize further and focus on a niche. Remember RIM was 'on top of the world' with 10 million customers and a fraction of the employees, yet analysts declare them "bankrupt" at 80 million. They could merge. They could be bought. They could focus on services vs. devices.

Not suggesting it's easy or that they won't face challenges, but I truly don't buy into "OMG - they have one shot and that's it!!!!" thinking.

[Thunderbuck]

Not exactly. Think of RIM's "2.3 billion" akin to your savings account. You have more coming in and more going out than what's common in your savings account. Obviously you want to be careful, but you could get a loan, reduce the number of times you eat out a week and change that balance. But it's not like "2.3 billion is all they have to live on".

Nor do I buy "make or break". They could downsize further and focus on a niche. Remember RIM was 'on top of the world' with 10 million customers and a fraction of the employees, yet analysts declare them "bankrupt" at 80 million. They could merge. They could be bought. They could focus on services vs. devices.

Not suggesting it's easy or that they won't face challenges, but I truly don't buy into "OMG - they have one shot and that's it!!!!" thinking.

Yes, I agree that BB10 isn't the "hail Mary" that many have tried to claim it is. RIM still has options if BB10 fails, but I'll grant they're limited.

My personal opinion: they'll become a Windows Phone shop, after MS takes a big minority stake. In return, BES/BIS would become available for all WP.

[GTiLeo]

Yes, I agree that BB10 isn't the "hail Mary" that many have tried to claim it is. RIM still has options if BB10 fails, but I'll grant they're limited.

My personal opinion: they'll become a Windows Phone shop, after MS takes a big minority stake. In return, BES/BIS would become available for all WP.

donno about MS using BES/BIS they already have their active sync service, IBM has already expressed interest in their BES/BIS and i think that would be the number one prospect as far as being sold if it ever does, which i maintain won't happen, there are other options for them ones that could work a maintaining a business, but with losing the "respect" (if you really call what they are getting from the media as resepct) and become a smaller service based company supplying their NOC to other platforms rather then active sync and competing on that level with MS as well as creating a BBM app that is cross platform. they also still have QNX which is their software end and is still being licensed out which can go hand in hand with their NOC. the profits won't be near the same but they came be livable until this Apple/google crazy dies down, because this is really all it is

[Superfly_FR]

As a newbie here, I'd like to know what the argument is. Could any of you link me to a thread that explains why RIM won't be another Palm? I am buying an L-series phone regardless, but I would feel better about it if I knew the company were to keep on living.

Palm actually had a pretty solid product, unfortunately they ran out of cash before they had a chance to fully push it out. Last quarter RIM has $2.3 Billion in cash. Analysts calculate RIM needs about 2 Billion to launch BB10 and survive 2013. So unless ER shows that the cash reserves have been depleted, we're good to go.

AND, palm didn't hold a 80million customers wallet !

edited :

So this is pretty much make or break for RIM.

I do believe this is not the case anymore. Morgan Stanley (is it ?) stated in its latest analysis that in the case of a moderate succes of BB10 (witch, I believe, is unlikely to append), the stock would retreat to $10. Basically, it implies that several investors are now on a long term recovery vision (T. Heins 3-5 years comeback prediction), in other words : they believe the hardest part was ...