1.25 million shares of RiMM

[hootyhoo]

Or he's trying to average down.

[OMGitworks]

Originally Posted by Thunderbuck

Wellll, we're tracking a major investor. Who's just doubled-down.

RIM stock has been sliding a bit in the past few days. There's no real negative news behind it (except for some individual reports of enterprise customers switching platforms), so perhaps Mr. Cooperman is just adding to his value play.

It is very likely he and Prem Watsa were the ones propping up the stock in late December January. Looks like once they stopped, RIMM slid back down. Both of them have lost A LOT of $$ on RIMM and it looks like their double down gamble may be in trouble. Of late RIMM has traded terribly, the chart is awful.

[VanCity778]

The price is so low right now. I was thinking of buying some for the of it. It really is a win win at this point.

[Caymancroc]

Originally Posted by VanCity778

It really is a win win at this point.

I guess by "win win" you mean, RIM goes out of business and Apple and Android "win win" in picking up the users?

Just kidding, couldn't pass that one up. I really don't understand what you mean by win win though. It is a gamble, like everything in the casino stock market. Those billionaires are down big on their positions. As I said before they like throwing away money and the $ they are throwing away is likely not all theirs, so at the end of the day they lose 30 million or 50 million or whatever. That is a drop in the bucket. Nobody likes to lose it, but it reminds me of some of the deals Carl Icahn has done. I think he lost $100 million or something like that on WCI Communities. He doesn't care. Plenty of his deals hit to offset it.

Good luck to you and good luck to RIM. They need it.

[Brianflys]

Don't bet the mortgage or grocery money. It will be a win-win for you and RIM if they deliver as planned on OS2 and BB10, and sales growth follows, and your modest investment grows. With great risk can come great reward. And with the low stock price now, the downside seems to me pretty limited for a company with substantial assets, significant retained earnings, and no debt.

[Rootbrian]

That is A LOT of shares.

[OMGitworks]

And down another 3%+ again today....

[phoreoneone]

ooo maybe i should invest as well but no where near 1.25 mill!!!!!

[Resist28]

Originally Posted by OMGitworks

Yes he does show he knows something - how to lose 6-10 million dollars in about 45 days. Brilliant.

You make the same comment under everyone of these topics about people buying stocks. This investor knows more about making money than you, so maybe you should hold your tongue on this one you short sighted man.

[OMGitworks]

Originally Posted by Resist28

You make the same comment under everyone of these topics about people buying stocks. This investor knows more about making money than you, so maybe you should hold your tongue on this one you short sighted man.

I have given both of them credit for being smarter and much richer than I will ever be in almost every post you are referring to. What I simply pointed out, and ONLY AFTER someone posted that "Leon Cooperman and/or Prem Watsa just made a huge investment in RIMM, it must be a great investment b/c they are so smart" is that they both got it completely wrong and lost hundreds of millions of dollars on RIMM. RIMM Is down 77% over the last year, that is stunningly bad. FWIW, since that post of mine you quoted, RIMM has gone down another 20%+.

Here we go again... I agree they both know a lot more than I do about investing money. No doubt both are MUCH smarter than I am. However, they are not perfect and actually are getting killed on their RIMM investment. Both were forced to double down after losing more than 50% of their initial investment. When it comes to RIMM, I made about 35% on my short term RIM gambles, both of them have lost more than 40% and that adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars for them and, unfortunately, only a few thousand dollars for me. These are facts from public records and I am sorry if you think I am short sighted. FWIW - blindly following them into RIMM because they have made money in the past on other stocks is a very poor investment strategy and deferring to them they way you suggest just doesn't make sense to me. Rather than holding my tongue, I's rather eat my words if and when RIMM triples to $45 and these guys get back to just being even....

[dagerlach]

FWIW, I have been buying RIM as well. I have played with RIMM short-term and done quite well over the past year just to make a quick profit here and there.

As for the rich guys buying millions worth of stock, these people usually don't buy just on the hunch that the stock will go up. They usually only invest in a sure thing. So, these investors know someone with a big plan that will turnaround the stock price. Will it happen as quickly as most short-term investors want; IMO probably not. Will it happen in the time-period that Warren Buffet likes? I'm counting on it.

So choose to invest in RIMM based on what your investment goals are.

My two cents again FWIW.

[CrackedBarry]

Originally Posted by VanCity778

The price is so low right now. I was thinking of buying some for the of it. It really is a win win at this point.

The price is so low for a reason... If you have a couple of thousand dollars that you don't mind losing, then by all means go for it. But it's a pretty risky bet.

You won't see the stock rising much unless one of two things happen.

1. Samsung or Microsoft (or who knows... HP or Google) makes an offer for the entire company. The chances of that happening? Anybody's guess. On one hand, RIMs a mess right now, but on the other hand its undervalued, and beside the handset business, RIM has some assets that certain companies wouldn't mind getting their hands on.

2. RIM executes perfectly on BB10, software as well as hardware, and they deliver on time. It's been a long time since RIM has done either of those, or had a success on their hands, to be honest. They have to do this while at the same time fighting off Apples and Googles encroachment on their business market (BBs corporate market share recently slipped to below 50% and is falling) AS WELL AS fighting off Android in the developing markets AND fighting off WP7 as the carriers choice for a third smartphone platform. (RIM has always had a close relationship with carriers who aren't interested in an Android-Apple duopoly. But Windows Phone 7 has some advantages as a third ecosystem that RIM can't match).
The chances of all of that happening? Slim but not impossible, which is why the stock price is so low....

[Resist28]

Originally Posted by OMGitworks

"Leon Cooperman and/or Prem Watsa just made a huge investment in RIMM, it must be a great investment b/c they are so smart" is that they both got it completely wrong and lost hundreds of millions of dollars on RIMM. RIMM Is down 77% over the last year, that is stunningly bad. FWIW, since that post of mine you quoted, RIMM has gone down another 20%+.

Yes it has gone down, we know that and so do they. People are investing in the stock, not because of what it is worth NOW but what it will be worth a year or two from now. You seem to rate a company and a stock based on its current performance, not on what it may do.

However, they are not perfect and actually are getting killed on their RIMM investment. Both were forced to double down after losing more than 50% of their initial investment.

They aren't getting killed on their investment, things haven't even happened yet. It is too early to make that call. Do you buy a stock and then check it the next day and rate the success of your investment on such a short term? Maybe you do, but real investors don't. Secondly they were not forced to double down, that is speculation.

- RIMS stock is currently undervalued
- Their success in North America doesn't represent their success in other parts of the world
- They have some interesting new QNX phones coming down the pipe
- Possibility of a buyout from a big player

[OMGitworks]

Originally Posted by Resist28

Yes it has gone down, we know that and so do they. People are investing in the stock, not because of what it is worth NOW but what it will be worth a year or two from now. You seem to rate a company and a stock based on its current performance, not on what it may do.


They both bought a year and more than 50% ago. They both guessed wrong. I rate a stock on what is has done and what it is capable of doing. Past and current do not always predict the future, I get that. The stock market tends to "guess" at what happens over the next 3-9 months and those investors don't like what they see.

They aren't getting killed on their investment, things haven't even happened yet. It is too early to make that call. Do you buy a stock and then check it the next day and rate the success of your investment on such a short term? Maybe you do, but real investors don't. Secondly they were not forced to double down, that is speculation.

They are absolutely getting killed. If you mean they haven't sold so they haven't lost anything yet, then I technically agree with you but that is little comfort to an investor whose lost 50% and hundreds of millions of dollars on his investment. If you mean that nobody forced them to buy, that is, again, technically true, but they absolutely were forced to double down or neither would have had any realistic chance to recoup their investment. They lowered their cost basis or average price per share so that it "only" has to double get them near even. Had they not done so RIMM would have had to go over 3-4 times its current price for then just to get back to even. They both realize that no realistic time horizon sees RIMM back at $45-60 range

- RIMS stock is currently undervalued. That is your opinion, not fact. The stock price it is trading at is fact. Book value is interesting but until it trades below the cash it has on hand, I say it is only an opinion. Lets see what cash they have on hand at the end of Q1 of 2012 and compare that to Q1 2011, it will tell us a lot about RIMM's value
- Their success in North America doesn't represent their success in other parts of the worldThat is true, but selling much cheaper handsets one at a time to developing countries is a lot less profitable than selling thousands of much more profitable units at a time to major corporations.
- They have some interesting new QNX phones coming down the pipeI agree, hopefully they execute it well and in a timely manner. I hope this happens but so far we are on delay 2 for the new phones and I ma not sure they have read the market correctly, maybe and hopefully they have
- Possibility of a buyout from a big player

Prem and Leon need a take out offer above $30 to get even. Unless things get really bad they will not vote to authorize a takeover at a loss. A 100% premium to current price is possible but not likely. I also am under the impression but have not confirmed that the Canadian government has the authority to kill any proposed buyout, this could be a major impediment.

We could go back and forth all day over this stuff. You got on me because I challenged the notion that just because Mr Cooperman and Mr Watsa bought the stock it was going to go up because they are rich and smart and know more than us normal commoners. All I said and posted about was that they may be rich and smart but they are not always right. On this premise, I think the facts, to date, are undeniable.

[app_Developer]

Following some of these celebrity fund guys and buying what they buy may not be a bad strategy, but you would need to buy everything they buy. Otherwise you run the risk of buying one of their misses instead of one of their hits.

And they all have hits, and they all have misses. Every one of them.

Or you could just pick the ones they are right about, I guess, if you are even smarter and more knowledgable than their teams.