BBM without BIS?

**mphillips828** · 05-14-2012, 11:13 AM

Hey so I just watched the Monday Brief...and Ashley mentioned that when diving around the Dev Alpha device they seemed to find BBM running or able to run without BIS..

Anyone know anything about this, and why hasnt this been covered on CrackBerry main page, because its a big deal if true!

**OniPod** · 05-14-2012, 11:15 AM

Yes, they were able to receive BBM PIN requests, but I wasn't sure if they had full use of BBM without a BIS plan. Apparently, that is the direction RIM seems to be going.

**mphillips828** · 05-14-2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Oniberry

Yes, they were able to receive BBM PIN requests, but I wasn't sure if they full use of BBM without a BIS plan. Apparently, that is the direction RIM seems to be going.

That is amazing...definitely allows for more consumer friendly products I think, and PlayBook would be able to use BBM without a data plan as well (natively i mean)

**calicocat2010** · 05-14-2012, 11:29 AM

Cool, that would certainly lower costs of the phone bill since data plans cost 15-45 a month.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

**OniPod** · 05-14-2012, 11:31 AM

Well, just because Alpha devices are able to access BBM without a BIS Plan, doesn't mean that it will always work that way, or that the BBDP charge may go the way of the dinosaur.

Just take a wait and see approach, hopefully RIM will figure it out, cause once they do, we'll probably see it on the PB soon after.

**greatwiseone** · 05-14-2012, 01:39 PM

I really hope BIS is going to be out the door for BB10. There's no need for BIS from a consumer stand point. When iMesage, Gtalk, Whatsapp, etc. are all available for free (or with one time payment for Whatsapp), RIM can't make people pay to use BBM...

**belfastdispatcher** · 05-14-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by greatwiseone

I really hope BIS is going to be out the door for BB10. There's no need for BIS from a consumer stand point. When iMesage, Gtalk, Whatsapp, etc. are all available for free (or with one time payment for Whatsapp), RIM can't make people pay to use BBM...

Nobody pays for BBM, it's free with your data plan.

**Fubaz** · 05-14-2012, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

Nobody pays for BBM, it's free with your data plan.

*facepalm*
everyone pays for it, its INCLUDED in the cost of the data plan

**Masahiro** · 05-14-2012, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by greatwiseone

I really hope BIS is going to be out the door for BB10. There's no need for BIS from a consumer stand point.

BIS is more than just BBM. It allows for true push email and other push notifications, data efficient web browsing, security, longer battery life, etc. So yes, as a consumer, I'd like to have BIS.

**belfastdispatcher** · 05-14-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Fubaz

*facepalm*
everyone pays for it, its INCLUDED in the cost of the data plan

Android data plan - £5/month no bbm
Iphone data plan - £5/month no bbm
BIS data plan - £5/month with bbm

BBM is free the same way iMessage is free

**greatwiseone** · 05-14-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Masahiro

BIS is more than just BBM. It allows for true push email and other push notifications, data efficient web browsing, security, longer battery life, etc. So yes, as a consumer, I'd like to have BIS.

Problem is that the current BIS structure creates problems when you scale (i.e. when the BB infrastructure collapsed back late last year). I'm pretty sure RIM's got some ideas on how to implement the data efficient browsing without having everything being routed through the NOC's. Like the PlayBook, I don't think BB10 will leverage the RIM infrastructure the way BIS currently operates. It'll still use RIM's architecture for some things (managing email, contacts, etc.) though, and it'll be interesting to see what they do...

**OniPod** · 05-14-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

Android data plan - £5/month no bbm
Iphone data plan - £5/month no bbm
BIS data plan - £5/month with bbm

BBM is free the same way iMessage is free

No, it isn't. It may be included, but why would some carriers charge 5/month for BBM use?
Included in the cost does not mean it is free.

**Masahiro** · 05-14-2012, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by greatwiseone

Problem is that the current BIS structure creates problems when you scale (i.e. when the BB infrastructure collapsed back late last year).

On average, service outages are extremely rare, maybe once a year or so. The last outage was a major mess-up that RIM hopefully learned from. Thinking economically, something that I can't use for maybe two days out of the calender year on average is worth something that I can benefit from the other 362 days.

**Masahiro** · 05-14-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Oniberry

No, it isn't. It may be included, but why would some carriers charge 5/month for BBM use?

Because most carriers like to nickle and dime their customers... Think of Caller ID or voice mail. Some carriers offer it for free, while others charge for it. It's not so much a matter of whether it costs the carriers anything (something like enabling Caller ID costs them nothing), but rather if people are willing to pay for it.

**Magnetic_dud** · 05-14-2012, 03:16 PM

i hope BIS is not needed in BB10.
If you want BIS, you can't get the best plans, in my country.

**OniPod** · 05-14-2012, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Masahiro

Because most carriers like to nickle and dime their customers... Think of Caller ID or voice mail. Some carriers offer it for free, while others charge for it. It's not so much a matter of whether it costs the carriers anything (something like enabling Caller ID costs them nothing), but rather if people are willing to pay for it.

Was in response to Belfast. You don't have to explain why carriers will charge if they can (Bridge and AT&T)

**belfastdispatcher** · 05-14-2012, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Oniberry

No, it isn't. It may be included, but why would some carriers charge 5/month for BBM use?
Included in the cost does not mean it is free.

Where I live all data plans cost the same for all platforms, no carriers charges extra for BBM. You don't pay RIM for BBM, you cay your carrier for the data plan.

Think of BBM as a present from RIM, it's a free service.

**OniPod** · 05-14-2012, 03:45 PM

Belfast - It doesn't matter who your carrier is. If you have BIS, then you are paying for it. BBM is an included service. Does not make it free.

**belfastdispatcher** · 05-14-2012, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Oniberry

Belfast - It doesn't matter who your carrier is. If you have BIS, then you are paying for it. BBM is an included service. Does not make it free.

Dude, you can't have BIS without a data plan from your carrier. What's so hard tu understand about that?

BBM is free the same way Blackberry Traffic, Blackberry Travel, Blackberry Maps, Blackberry Protect etc are free.

**reeneebob** · 05-14-2012, 04:08 PM

*gets popcorn and gets comfy*

This should get entertaining...

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk

**belfastdispatcher** · 05-14-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by reeneebob

*gets popcorn and gets comfy*

This should get entertaining...

Sent from my BlackBerry Bold 9900 using Tapatalk

Shouldn't you clear this up? I thought you sold blackberries for a living

Is BBM free?

**Magnetic_dud** · 05-14-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher

no carriers charges extra for BBM

the problem is that the carriers have to pay $$$ to RIM to give BIS access
In some way, the carrier would like to get money back from the customer

**OniPod** · 05-14-2012, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Magnetic_dud

the problem is that the carriers have to pay $$$ to RIM to give BIS access
In some way, the carrier would like to get money back from the customer

Don't bother using logic....or English to get your point across. It doesn't work. Belfast believes that BBM is free, and nothing short of Thor himself going to his home and explaining it to him will change his mind, and I am not even 100% sure of that.

**belfastdispatcher** · 05-14-2012, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Oniberry

Don't bother using logic....or English to get your point across. It doesn't work. Belfast believes that BBM is free, and nothing short of Thor himself going to his home and explaining it to him will change his mind, and I am not even 100% sure of that.

No need to get personal. You never answered about all other blackberry services, are they also not free? Or are they paid for just because they're included in the data plan? Where do you draw the line and accept some services are free from RIM?

**Masahiro** · 05-14-2012, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Magnetic_dud

the problem is that the carriers have to pay $$$ to RIM to give BIS access
In some way, the carrier would like to get money back from the customer

The additional cost, especially when it comes to unlimited or high cap data plans, is offset by the fact that BIS reduces the amount of data being used on the network. This is why a lot of carriers don't charge customers extra for BIS, because they know that those customers will use a lot less data on average than those using other smartphones.

In short, it is up to the carriers whether they charge for BIS or not. A lot don't, and if yours does, that's an issue to take up with them. Just because your carrier does, doesn't mean they should just do away with BIS entirely.