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  1. wout000's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  

    Default What makes a hybrid stand out and which one is the one for you?

    So i've always been fascinated with hybrids since the day they got offered.

    Hybrids are essentially optimized / downsized version of a complete BlackBerry OS.
    They are in most cases stripped down of the unnecessary parts (this is called "shrinking") and they are custom built with files from other OS versions to provide the most optimal and stable mix.

    There are however several hybrid builders in this community and they all offer different hybrids. Unfortunately they do not provide changelogs nor do they provide any explanation as to why their hybrid mix is the one to use on your phone.
    They don't have to, in part because they are respected and trusted members of this community, and because they are not forcing you to use their hybrid. Don't like it? Don't use it.

    I started this thread to get some more insight in the hybrid building process. I am curious as to why there are so many differences between hybrids. I know hybrid builders don't randomly pump in files so there has to be a reasoning behind it.

    I did a file comparison between 2 popular hybrids. BL Ultimate Xmas Special and Kappa Prime 9810 (only JAVA folder comparison).
    There are quite some differences even though they were roughly created and released at the same time. HTML and PDF comparison (no need to download)

    Compare C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Research In Motion\Shared\Loader Files\RC X-mas Edition\Java with C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Research In Motion\Shared\Loader Files\9810AllLang_v7.1.0.746_P5.1.0.546\Java

    Left side is the X-Mas edition, right side is the Kappa Prime edition.
    As you can see the X-Mas edition has some newer versions of OS files while Kappa Prime uses some older versions. Some files are missing with hybrid one and some are missing with hybrid two.
    I'm actually curious as to why this difference exist. Surely all hybrid builders try and create a hybrid that's the best, so apparently their opinions differ. Do hybrid builders focus on speed or stability or maybe both or maybe something entirely different...

    Any hybrid builder or expert wants to shed some light on this?

    This is not to find out which hybrid is the best, this is merely to find out why a specific hybrid is created (speed, stability, memory improvements, gps lock, stronger wifi,...) and to comprehend the reasoning behind the hybrid builder's choice of file versions.
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    #2  

    Default RE: What makes a hybrid stand out and which one is the one for you?

    Don't go by date. Google for codinfo.exe, I think has been shared before.

    Start building browser and their dependent modules. Go from there.

    And in your handset look under modules to see what versions are running
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  3. wout000's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to build my own browser Zoc, i'm trying to figure out how hybrid builders like yourself go about creating a hybrid and determining what version of a certain file should be included or not.

    eg: browser.cod version 1 and browser.cod version 2

    version 1 is more recent and faster, but version 2 is known for it's stability. Which one do you include and why?
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    #4  

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    Hmmm. This will be interesting.
    Last edited by Blacklatino; 01-04-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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    #5  

    Default RE: What makes a hybrid stand out and which one is the one for you?

    It comes with experience. We have played with many modules and their dependent siblings to know what combo works and what not. It is trial and error.
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  6. Mecca EL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wout000 View Post
    So i've always been fascinated with hybrids since the day they got offered.

    Hybrids are essentially optimized / downsized version of a complete BlackBerry OS.
    They are in most cases stripped down of the unnecessary parts (this is called "shrinking") and they are custom built with files from other OS versions to provide the most optimal and stable mix.

    There are however several hybrid builders in this community and they all offer different hybrids. Unfortunately they do not provide changelogs nor do they provide any explanation as to why their hybrid mix is the one to use on your phone.
    They don't have to, in part because they are respected and trusted members of this community, and because they are not forcing you to use their hybrid. Don't like it? Don't use it.

    I started this thread to get some more insight in the hybrid building process. I am curious as to why there are so many differences between hybrids. I know hybrid builders don't randomly pump in files so there has to be a reasoning behind it.

    I did a file comparison between 2 popular hybrids. BL Ultimate Xmas Special and Kappa Prime 9810 (only JAVA folder comparison).
    There are quite some differences even though they were roughly created and released at the same time. HTML and PDF comparison (no need to download)

    Compare C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Research In Motion\Shared\Loader Files\RC X-mas Edition\Java with C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Research In Motion\Shared\Loader Files\9810AllLang_v7.1.0.746_P5.1.0.546\Java

    Left side is the X-Mas edition, right side is the Kappa Prime edition.
    As you can see the X-Mas edition has some newer versions of OS files while Kappa Prime uses some older versions. Some files are missing with hybrid one and some are missing with hybrid two.
    I'm actually curious as to why this difference exist. Surely all hybrid builders try and create a hybrid that's the best, so apparently their opinions differ. Do hybrid builders focus on speed or stability or maybe both or maybe something entirely different...

    Any hybrid builder or expert wants to shed some light on this?

    This is not to find out which hybrid is the best, this is merely to find out why a specific hybrid is created (speed, stability, memory improvements, gps lock, stronger wifi,...) and to comprehend the reasoning behind the hybrid builder's choice of file versions.
    Without using Codinfo.exe, the date of a cod in a java folder isn't necessarily correct. The cod series may be of more benefit.

    In a logical world, where one could safely assume that a newer version of X, is a better version of W, maximization would be a given. Fortunately, our world doesn't work that way. Our world is geometric - everything is measured and accounted. Zocs and myself study the details of a working OS. I know that I want balance from my device. I know what every single cod does, and can easily spot its inherit advantages or its inherit deficiencies. No real science, just really paying attention.

    I wish I had access to the science of cod and sfi files. Instead of trail and error, I could actually WRITE the performance I prefer. But because of security concerns, myself and my fellow hybrid builders are limited to compiling files, installing, and praying that our phone starts correctly. From there, any null java errors are easily sorted out.

    A specific hybrid is built based on the specific builders preference, based on observed deficiencies in a devices performance. Similar to how the Creator owns the copyright to DNA, but instilled us with the talent to replace a kidney, lung, brain and/or heart.
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  7. ppeters914's Avatar
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    Excellent, well-worded query.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecca EL View Post
    A specific hybrid is built based on the specific builders preference, based on observed deficiencies in a devices performance.
    And that's what us end-users would like to know, just like different Linux distros are built for different preferences.
    Pete
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #8  

    Default

    Thanks for the answers you guys
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    Quote Originally Posted by wout000 View Post
    Thanks for the answers you guys
    Really????? I don't see any real answers, just "trial and error until it meets my preferences" though I'll be damned if I know what those preferences are.......and wasn't that the original question?
    Pete
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppeters914 View Post
    Really????? I don't see any real answers, just "trial and error until it meets my preferences" though I'll be damned if I know what those preferences are.......and wasn't that the original question?
    That's as real an answer as they can give. There's no browser version offering a true difference, only subtle changes in performance, and one version may behave slighly differently mixed with certain other cod versions, than another. They find what they feel gives the best overall performance in a particular hybrid they build, and that's what they use. A hybrid OS could have browser cod from multiple OS versions within it.
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    #11  

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    I build hybrids for stability, and for improved battery life. My personal holy grail has been to minimize the memory "leak" of OS6 on a 9700.

    There are some builds that seem to throw a mish-mash of OS versions into a build, there are others that seem intent on replacing every possible file with a newer version.

    Personally, my architecture is based on literally years of testing, verifying which files can be changed without causing any errors (and I'm talking about errors that most users would never see anyway). For a long time builds were plagued with the obvious java.lang.null.pointer.exception type of problems. I have a known set of files that I change, and I usually upgrade those in bulk when a new OS is released. I also have a known set of "legacy" files that I have selected for very specific reasons - radio lock, boot speed, etc.

    With all that said, there is still a bit of mystery in hybrid building. I might set out for a stable, efficient build but end up with a really fast browser. Users also have to take into account the subjective nature of device usage patterns and how a multitude of factors can affect their experience with a particular build, on a particular OS, on a particular device, on a particular carrier.

    For whatever reason, I had very good results - and very good memory management - running my Aikido build over 6.0.0.723 on my 9700. Right now, though, I am running a mostly stock 6.0.0.749 on my device. I only changed two files, neither of which really affect speed, battery, or memory.
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  12. Blacklatino's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by wu-wei View Post
    I build hybrids for stability, and for improved battery life. My personal holy grail has been to minimize the memory "leak" of OS6 on a 9700.

    There are some builds that seem to throw a mish-mash of OS versions into a build, there are others that seem intent on replacing every possible file with a newer version.

    Personally, my architecture is based on literally years of testing, verifying which files can be changed without causing any errors (and I'm talking about errors that most users would never see anyway). For a long time builds were plagued with the obvious java.lang.null.pointer.exception type of problems. I have a known set of files that I change, and I usually upgrade those in bulk when a new OS is released. I also have a known set of "legacy" files that I have selected for very specific reasons - radio lock, boot speed, etc.

    With all that said, there is still a bit of mystery in hybrid building. I might set out for a stable, efficient build but end up with a really fast browser. Users also have to take into account the subjective nature of device usage patterns and how a multitude of factors can affect their experience with a particular build, on a particular OS, on a particular device, on a particular carrier.

    For whatever reason, I had very good results - and very good memory management - running my Aikido build over 6.0.0.723 on my 9700. Right now, though, I am running a mostly stock 6.0.0.749 on my device. I only changed two files, neither of which really affect speed, battery, or memory.
    I will attest to some of the best hybrids (with speeds) were on my 9700. BTW, nice avatar.
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #13  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppeters914 View Post
    Really????? I don't see any real answers, just "trial and error until it meets my preferences" though I'll be damned if I know what those preferences are.......and wasn't that the original question?
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadWulf View Post
    That's as real an answer as they can give. There's no browser version offering a true difference, only subtle changes in performance, and one version may behave slighly differently mixed with certain other cod versions, than another. They find what they feel gives the best overall performance in a particular hybrid they build, and that's what they use. A hybrid OS could have browser cod from multiple OS versions within it.
    The question was 'why hybrid builders prefer a certain version of OS files over others.'
    They answer was 'personal preference and device stability/speed'. I never asked how a hybrid is made.
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    Ahhhhhhhh.....now I get it.......

    Pete
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppeters914 View Post
    Ahhhhhhhh.....now I get it.......

    http://itsmagicnj.com/Its%20Magic%20Small.jpg
    So, how's that working for you, Houdini???
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCrid2000 View Post
    I said in that thread, and will repeat here; excellent info.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklatino View Post
    So, how's that working for you, Houdini???
    Not sure what you mean. I'm not trying to build a hybrid. I may install OSBB OS6 707v6 just because SCrid2000's posts appear well thought out and written, giving me more confidence that the hybrid was assembled using the same care.

    OTOH, I may do nothing whilst killing time waiting for Jan 30th.
    Pete
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    I know. It happens. Anyway, glad you found an acceptable answer to finally "give you more confidence that a hybrid was assembled using the same "thought out" care. Good luck.
    Yes, Anger Management does work. 5th time is the charm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppeters914 View Post
    Not sure what you mean. I'm not trying to build a hybrid. I may install OSBB OS6 707v6 just because SCrid2000's posts appear well thought out and written, giving me more confidence that the hybrid was assembled using the same care.

    OTOH, I may do nothing whilst killing time waiting for Jan 30th. http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e...tumbleweed.gif
    I know lots of users are very happy with the OSBB hybrids. I've tried them myself. However, they are built primarily for CDMA devices and some of the files that are swapped don't work smoothly with GSM devices. Again, these are issues that are rarely, if ever, noticed by most users. The errors that show up do not affect the hybrid's performance on a GSM phone (that I've noticed, at least), but you're using an irrelevant measure (post-authoring) as your basis for a totally different area (hybrid building). It seems pretty clear that you're skeptical of using hybrids at all, which is understandable if you're not comfortable reinstalling OSes on your device. The best thing to do is to try one. If you don't like it, try another. No one is going to be able to tell you which one will work best for you. If that doesn't sound good, then just leave things as they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wu-wei View Post
    I know lots of users are very happy with the OSBB hybrids. I've tried them myself. However, they are built primarily for CDMA devices and some of the files that are swapped don't work smoothly with GSM devices. Again, these are issues that are rarely, if ever, noticed by most users. The errors that show up do not affect the hybrid's performance on a GSM phone (that I've noticed, at least), but you're using an irrelevant measure (post-authoring) as your basis for a totally different area (hybrid building). It seems pretty clear that you're skeptical of using hybrids at all, which is understandable if you're not comfortable reinstalling OSes on your device. The best thing to do is to try one. If you don't like it, try another. No one is going to be able to tell you which one will work best for you. If that doesn't sound good, then just leave things as they are.
    Ahhhh, excellent info since I'm GSM. I'm not adverse to trying a hybrid (I've reinstalled the OS several times to get from .246 to .706), just don't want to brick my BB. And, yes, my criteria for picking a hybrid (basically, judging a book by its cover) isn't objective at all.

    Much appreciated, wu.
    Pete
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    #22  

    Default What makes a hybrid stand out and which one is the one for you?

    They usually don't work as well as the carrier OS's and when your searching for "The One", make sure you get the one that performs the worst.
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    #23  

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    Sorry for the off topic question, does java.nullpointer occur in every hybrid?or is it a problem in original os6 system?because I kept seeing it in most hybrid I've tried
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivar_sergeivich View Post
    Sorry for the off topic question, does java.nullpointer occur in every hybrid?or is it a problem in original os6 system?because I kept seeing it in most hybrid I've tried
    Java.nullpointer is a communication error between and app and the OS. Reading the event log for system errors, can prevent nullpointer errors. Sometimes though, the device can recover fast enough to not show this error on screen. This is where the differences in devices should be taken into consideration, by hybrid builders.
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