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  1. adamschuetze's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  

    Default Settling time?

    Hi

    I am always seeing "settling time" referenced in hybrid forum posts, and the idea that it takes a while (and several/many battery pulls) for a newly installed OS to "settle" and improve performance.

    Can anybody give a technical explanation about what is going on?
  2. #2  

    Default Re: Settling time

    There is no logical explanation for these rather subjective reports. Software being what it is, it should behave exactly the same on every occasion.

    I can suggest a few possible explanations which could explain perceived variations;
    * Abnormally high level of User activity "investigating" the performance of the new installation could actually add significant battery drain (more screen usage) and load on the processor cycles.
    * A need to download previously cached content again after effectively wiping the device.
    * Data restored from backup may need to be optimized in on-device storage, occupying background processing activity.

    There is a possible less innocent explanation given that hybrids are an uncertified and unofficial third party product downloaded from an unknown and untrustable source, with no way to be sure it does not contain hidden data mining and upload features.
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  3. wu-wei's Avatar
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    #3  

    Default Re: Settling time

    Quote Originally Posted by branta View Post
    There is no logical explanation for these rather subjective reports. Software being what it is, it should behave exactly the same on every occasion.

    I can suggest a few possible explanations which could explain perceived variations;
    * Abnormally high level of User activity "investigating" the performance of the new installation could actually add significant battery drain (more screen usage) and load on the processor cycles.
    * A need to download previously cached content again after effectively wiping the device.
    * Data restored from backup may need to be optimized in on-device storage, occupying background processing activity.

    There is a possible less innocent explanation given that hybrids are an uncertified and unofficial third party product downloaded from an unknown and untrustable source, with no way to be sure it does not contain hidden data mining and upload features.
    I agree with all bulleted points mentioned. After a new install, folks tend to fiddle about seeing whether all features work, what's new, and checking performance. Depending on how device data is restored, there is a potential need for lots of data to be transferred back to the device. And finally, I have personally witnessed lots of processes sorting, indexing, and optimizing data right after any OS install - hybrid, leaked, or official.

    Personally I know of no way to insert any data mining/upload features within a hybrid OS. Third party apps are another story altogether. I trust hybrids more than most apps, at least with respect to privacy/security concerns. But then again, I build my own so I know what I put in there.
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  4. jeffh's Avatar
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    #4  

    Default Re: Settling time

    Quote Originally Posted by branta View Post
    There is no logical explanation for these rather subjective reports. Software being what it is, it should behave exactly the same on every occasion.

    I can suggest a few possible explanations which could explain perceived variations;
    * Abnormally high level of User activity "investigating" the performance of the new installation could actually add significant battery drain (more screen usage) and load on the processor cycles.
    * A need to download previously cached content again after effectively wiping the device.
    * Data restored from backup may need to be optimized in on-device storage, occupying background processing activity.

    There is a possible less innocent explanation given that hybrids are an uncertified and unofficial third party product downloaded from an unknown and untrustable source, with no way to be sure it does not contain hidden data mining and upload features.
    I appreciate Branta addressing this question. I don't use hybrids myself, so I never felt qualified to answer it, but I've never understood how an OS, hybrid or straight official, could need "settling time." I've never experienced it with the official OS versions I've installed, but it remains a persistent report.
  5. #5  

    Default Re: Settling time

    Quote Originally Posted by wu-wei View Post
    Personally I know of no way to insert any data mining/upload features within a hybrid OS. Third party apps are another story altogether. I trust hybrids more than most apps, at least with respect to privacy/security concerns. But then again, I build my own so I know what I put in there.
    It appears to be relatively trivial to add or substitute a .cod and hand craft the associated .alx, then repackage the OS download using Microsoft tools if necessary. To make it clear, the risk is with any downloads of dubious origin rather than explicitly from hybrids. There is little doubt that our regular and well known hybrid assemblers create a clean product, but I have in mind that it this kind of attack has been inflicted on other platforms - mostly through dodgy download sites linked to cybercrime. In the early days hybrid users were almost exclusively experienced users who had at least half a clue what they were doing, but recently we have seen many "new users" jumping on every new hybrid and free download they can find with no consideration of the source.
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  6. wu-wei's Avatar
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    #6  

    Default Re: Settling time

    Very good points branta. And yes, it would be relatively easy to swap out certain files - or to edit an ALX file to include a potentially unwanted COD file in an OS installation. I hadn't considered that as a potential means of injecting something nefarious...perhaps because that's not my motivation.
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  7. adamschuetze's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #7  

    Default Re: Settling time

    I'm kind of surprised that nobody knows what is exactly the source of this "settling time". The rumor is rampant, to the point of gospel. But nobody can give a technical explanation of what is going on? Where did the rumor start?
  8. wu-wei's Avatar
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    #8  

    Default Re: Settling time

    Quote Originally Posted by adamschuetze View Post
    I'm kind of surprised that nobody knows what is exactly the source of this "settling time". The rumor is rampant, to the point of gospel. But nobody can give a technical explanation of what is going on? Where did the rumor start?
    Install some more OSes and you will probably confirm the rumor.

    Honestly, I believe it is all anecdotal/experiential. It came from folks paying attention to battery discharge rates, and noticing that the first couple of days with, say, a new hybrid OS were not very good in terms of battery life...but then things seemed to "settle" down and battery discharge seemed more consistent.

    Personally I haven't seen any "settling" periods with my hybrids over the last several builds. If you have escreens enabled, you will notice a few extra processes running immediately after an OS install as the indexing and caching is undertaken. I have also noticed that fileindex runs for a while immediately after a battery pull, or after disconnecting from my PC with mass storage media enabled. Makes sense, as the OS wants to update with any new info that may have changed on the SD card....
  9. bimmerdriver's Avatar
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    #9  

    Default Re: Settling time

    Count me among the sceptics of "settling time". When I install an OS, aside from the aforementioned fiddling around, trying out each app to make sure it's working and configuring the ones that need configuring, I don't do anything. I just use my phone normally without any battery pulls or reboots, other than those required for installing or upgrading apps. Once everything is set up, I don't notice any difference in battery life or battery temperature. I think the number of apps running, the amount a phone is being used, and the network coverage have more to do with battery consumption than anything else. I agree that the only thing that could be going on is the OS indexing files. However, that doesn't take forever and once it's done, it's done. Unless / until I hear a good technical explanation from an insider at RIM or the results of an objective comparision of two phones being used identically, one with battery pulls and one without, I will remain sceptical that several days of battery pulls or whatever, is required for an OS to "settle", or even that the OS "settles" at all after the initial boot up and indexing is done.
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  10. Kimberly Boals's Avatar
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    #10  

    Default

    All of the berrylicious hybrids I have installed have improved with settling time. Some of them have required more settling than others, but none of them have run their best immediately after being installed.
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  11. neumann66's Avatar
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    #11  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter_Sobchak View Post
    All of the berrylicious hybrids I have installed have improved with settling time. Some of them have required more settling than others, but none of them have run their best immediately after being installed.
    totally agree with you....is all on "indexing process" that asks more or less time to fit 100% a new OS installed on device: latest BB OS works with a sort of "advanced caching" system (just as example totally different from Android) but here is a bit complicated to go ahead on this explanation.....
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  12. adamschuetze's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #12  

    Default Settling time

    Quote Originally Posted by neumann66 View Post
    totally agree with you....is all on "indexing process" that asks more or less time to fit 100% a new OS installed on device: latest BB OS works with a sort of "advanced caching" system (just as example totally different from Android) but here is a bit complicated to go ahead on this explanation.....
    It is the complicated answer that I have been hoping to get ever since I started this thread. If you can give a nitty gritty technical explanation of what is going on, I'd love to hear it. I like knowing how things work
  13. phatmaan's Avatar
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    #13  

    Default

    Technically , I dont know , What I do know is , You get weird glitches , when u install a hybrid , like frequent tiny black clocks , Time not being synced properly , and strange behavior of some apps , but after few battery pulls , things become better , after a week or so , its perfect , So the bottom line is , If u install a hybrid , you NEED TO DO IT !
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  14. bimmerdriver's Avatar
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    #14  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by explorertml View Post
    It all depends on how the hybrid was made/build trust me!

    I am a hybrid builder, and I suggest you try one of our V Series Class of Hybrids that we brought into CrackBerry to share with all the BlackBerry Bold 9900 device!

    Our V1 and V2, V3 will only require 1 battery pull and it will for sure be settled in within the 24 to the 48 hour mark, and 100% fully broken in/settled in within the 7 day mark or less...
    Kindly elaborate on what is different about the way you make your hybrid, as opposed to other hybrids, that results in your hybrid breaking in / settling in differently.
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  15. bimmerdriver's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by explorertml View Post
    1st of all are you a Hybrid maker or Builder?
    Have you heard of a "straw man"? If not then google it. Asking me whether I'm a hybrid builder or not is a "straw man" and it's irrelevant. I simply asked you to elaborate on what you do that makes your hybrid settle differently from other hybrids. What you wrote above doesn't answer my question. In fact, it deflected my question to the irrelevent topic of whether or not I build hybrids. If you don't want people to ask questions about what is different about your hybrid from other hybrids, then don't make a claims that can't be backed up such as the ones you made in your post above. First you made a claim that your hybrid settles differently from other hybrids (trust me) which implies a second claim that you can actually quantitatively measure a difference in settling time. Can you prove either claim? If you can, I'm all ears. If not, then your claims are just talk and talk is cheap.
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  16. wu-wei's Avatar
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    #16  

    Default

    What started as a very helpful thread has devolved into, well, typical silliness.

    I, too, am waiting to hear how anyone can quantitavely measure, first, their own OS' "settling period" and second, anyone else's OS' "settling period."

    I call 'bunk' on the whole issue.
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  17. adamschuetze's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #17  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by explorertml View Post
    Goodmorning Mr bimmerdriver,

    You are very funny!

    Please just keep on in what your doing, and just enjoy the ride with all the selections of old and new Hybrids for your smartphone and install and un-install whatever Hybrid you wish, and trust me one day you will get it and find out which Hybrid is better in all aspects and the break-in period/settle in time is faster and better then the other Hybrid for your BB Smartphone...

    It all depends again in how a Hybrid is made period!

    Just a suggestion go give one of our V series a try and give your Install 24 to 48 Hours and you be the judge ( that's all I have to say )

    Look it up in the Hybrid Section: Transformer EXXtreme Brutale OS Hybrid for Bold 9900

    All The Best and Good Luck! that's all I can share with you at this time Mister bimmerdriver...

    Try to be happy and positive!

    Tom
    I think I'm going to vomit from the amount of condescension in this reply. "And trust me one day you will get it and find out"... really? What kind of response is that? Either you have quantitative results to talk about, or you do not. Hand waving and "believe me, one day you'll find out" is just idiotic. Sorry. I have to call shenanigans.
  18. bimmerdriver's Avatar
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    #18  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by explorertml View Post
    You are very funny!
    Maybe you would explain what you find funny about my comments. They weren't intended to be funny.

    I called you out and your response was to evade the question. What's really funny is that you either believe your babble or you think other people believe your babble. If you tried to pass that answer off on a computer science exam, you would get a zero. Not that marks are typically given for effort, but if they were, you'd get zero for that too. If you responded that the ordering of cods made a diffference (or something specific), I'd still ask you to explain how you can quantitatively prove it makes a difference, but at least it would be something. Whenever someone says "trust me", I immediately distrust them. You are no exception and your responses are frankly BS. Go on believing them if you want, but I doubt anyone on this board believes them.

    As it stands, the only person who has provided a tangible response to the OP's question is Wu-Wei, when he mentioned the file indexer.
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  19. adamschuetze's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #19  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by explorertml View Post
    Dear Adam,

    I am sorry for making your belly upset and this is a public forum and I think that it is open for open speech and points of views and on a subject on any of these threads within crackberry.com if you have a real big problem or issue in what any or any members has to say in regards to comments with this community...

    You can aways leave and perhaps don't look back, and perhaps you get your answer to this here or there question that really I don't see any marrit to your discovery I wish you all the best Adam on your search and I know also one day that your get an answer with all the data and perhaps all printed out for you in a binder and perhaps I can even join you to take in this data when you get it, we can have a tea together going over what does what so on...

    Have A Great Weekend! Adam

    Our best wishes and regards to your quest and search

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    I give up.
  20. bimmerdriver's Avatar
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    #20  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by adamschuetze View Post
    I give up.
    He clearly doesn't get it.
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #21  

    Default

    We've been trolled, Bimmerdriver. Time to let this one go.
  22. audio_engr's Avatar
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    #22  

    Default

    the dude is on his OWN trip ...

    its Time to plug the Thread !!
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    #23  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by explorertml View Post
    LOL big time @Audio_???We are all LMAO lots of my people are looking at this and it has turned into a chat room not a forum of Interest to anyone anymore this is just a joke but we love it let's see where it ends and who at the end of the day is on top! A few of my executive friends are cracking right up with most of you keep the show going and keep in mind what's said and some is forever recorded for future use... Get the picture Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    Hmmm, if your "executive" friends are laughing its probably from your lack of knowledge on all things "normal." A s far as offering your shrink sisters services, you may want to see her yourself. Now, on to the matter at hand and that is your failure to answer a question on how your hybrids are built differently than others hybrids. Answer that and someone may actually take you seriously.
    Last edited by BlackScorpion3; 11-16-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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  24. #24  

    Default Settling time?

    Oh,

    Most features and systems on a BlackBerry require three things:

    1) Updating. BBM is a great example with many users. But you have books and libraries and XML files all over that update themselves for the first few days. Some update on schedules, some update on launch. These *really* burn through a battery. But they just take time.

    2) Unpacking, library and runtime initializations. Most of these happen on app launch the first time after rebooting. But some of the under laying OS would need to do this. After rebooting the system also runs validations - most of that is done during reboot sequence though.

    3). Customizations. Your BB isn't optimized until you check all your boxes.

    Keeping that in mind, I'm sure there is more I'm missing... Especially with regards to themes, apps, bbid registrations, etc. But those would be my assumptions.

    BB10 and QNX would see this impact as well - but its noticble on BBOS7 for sure. #1 would use your battery up day 1. #2 is more of an every-reboot thing most noticable with android runtime. #3 is because you can't time yourself or systems unless they are configured properly.

    Ed.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9360 using Tapatalk
  25. #25  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by explorertml View Post
    Hey scorpion,

    There is no need for me to explain one thing to you at this point... I gave up on this a long time ago on this matter... Its a waste of time to comment any further on this point. I have a million other ways to waste my time if I really wanted to waste time, then sit here with you and the rest of the whatever you want to call yourselfs.only your parents can make that call lol and I must say we have lots of winners in here,

    Can I perhaps help you scorpion?

    Do me a fav? Scorpion go pull out your usb and go download a hybrid and install it and don't waste anymore of your time or mine...

    Keep smiling and nice too meet you you seem like a very classy type LMFAO with all these comments...

    Have a great weekend scorp cuz I know I will

    Hey scorp our new V4 will be out in a week or so keep your usb cable close your welcome to try or fly lol lol lol

    Hear me out


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    As someone who clearly is set in their ways, you will never be able to move to the next level if you don't progress with the times. Hybrids, in their beginning were unknown OSs that worked better the original pieces. As the OSs have advanced so has the ways they are put together and also the way they behave. Anyone who makes descent hybrids this days knows things have changed, including you don't need to shrink out a bunch of stuff and the need to let thing settle (the topic of this thread).

    If you can't understand that or don't want to keep up with the times that's fine, just don't try to hold anyone else back with you.
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