[CDM76]

Just wondering why RIM relies on the phone company to issue OS updates for cell phones ? Why don't they manage it themselves, like they do for the Playbook ?

RIM could manage this through App World and push a notification to the phone from there.

I am thinking if RIM handled all the OS Updates then everyone would have the most current OS on their phone and RIM would be able to fix issues that are occurring (such as bricking). This would help improve the BlackBerry phone quality to many people and possibly reduce some negativity surrounding BBs.

Thoughts ?

[JR A]

It's not that RIM "relies" on the carrier. The carrier has the final say because they control the airwaves (so to speak).


It has nothing to do with what RIM (or any phone manufacturer) does.


This is why there are leaked upgrades. These are versions that RIM has worked on and wants to push to users but carriers haven't "approved" of them yet.

Not everything is RIM's fault ya know...

[CDM76]

LOL !!! I understand the "current" way of doing things ... but why can this not change ? I'd love to go to RIM's site and update my 9800. By RIM controlling the OS updates it would likely also reduce the amount of work required to release multiple versions of the same update.

I just dont see why RIM can do it for the PB but not the BBs ? Heck, if need be I'll use the wi-fi on my phone to update the OS so the carriers are not in any way involved.....

[spike12]

LOL !!! I understand the "current" way of doing things ... but why can this not change ? I'd love to go to RIM's site and update my 9800. By RIM controlling the OS updates it would likely also reduce the amount of work required to release multiple versions of the same update.

I just dont see why RIM can do it for the PB but not the BBs ? Heck, if need be I'll use the wi-fi on my phone to update the OS so the carriers are not in any way involved.....

I think its the fact there is no carrier needed for the pb...but i agree I wish they released the os updated universally with phones.

[glassofpinot]

LOL !!! I understand the "current" way of doing things ... but why can this not change ? I'd love to go to RIM's site and update my 9800. By RIM controlling the OS updates it would likely also reduce the amount of work required to release multiple versions of the same update.

I just dont see why RIM can do it for the PB but not the BBs ? Heck, if need be I'll use the wi-fi on my phone to update the OS so the carriers are not in any way involved.....

It is a nice idea, but you can't decide to just have the carriers "not in any way involved" as you say.
As jranciano said, RIM cannot control how the phones are programmed to interfrace with the carrier cell towers and their software -- that's the carrier's job to know their own systems and get it set up right so that the system works without a glitch. Think about it - RIM cannot be expert in all of the different carrier SW systems to which their phones get connected. The carriers don't want anything connected to their system - and potentially glitching it up - without their full understanding and ok. The carriers may even have proprietary programming that they want to keep secret.
If you tried asking the carriers to "let RIM do their programming for them", they would say "no thank you".

It's different on the Playbook because no carrier is involved.

[SC457]

Should be the same, most of us download a different carrier released OS, delete the vendor file, and install on our phones anyway. I don't see any reason carriers need control over it and actually it seems to hurt BlackBerry. Most of the time the OS fixes bugs and makes the phone way better, but if your carrier doesn't release it and you don't know about loading an OS from another carrier then you're stuck with the bugs on an OS that has an upgraded version to it.

I had a Bold 9000 as my first BlackBerry phone and didn't know anything about loading a new OS. When I did figure out how to load OS5 to the 9000 it was like getting a new phone. AT&T took forever to release that. How many customers did BlackBerry lose to iphones in that time that might have stayed if they could have had that update sooner? You'll never know.

It would be a lot better if RIM controlled the OS updates and we could upgrade as soon as RIM had it. Plus I would really like to just be able to plug my phone into a Mac and upgrade through DM without having to use a PC, delete vendor files, and that whole process.

Apple released their upgrade directly through multiple carriers at the same time with no problem. RIM can do the same I think.

[CDM76]

Should be the same, most of us download a different carrier released OS, delete the vendor file, and install on our phones anyway. I don't see any reason carriers need control over it and actually it seems to hurt BlackBerry. Most of the time the OS fixes bugs and makes the phone way better, but if your carrier doesn't release it and you don't know about loading an OS from another carrier then you're stuck with the bugs on an OS that has an upgraded version to it.

I had a Bold 9000 as my first BlackBerry phone and didn't know anything about loading a new OS. When I did figure out how to load OS5 to the 9000 it was like getting a new phone. AT&T took forever to release that. How many customers did BlackBerry lose to iphones in that time that might have stayed if they could have had that update sooner? You'll never know.

It would be a lot better if RIM controlled the OS updates and we could upgrade as soon as RIM had it. Plus I would really like to just be able to plug my phone into a Mac and upgrade through DM without having to use a PC, delete vendor files, and that whole process.

Apple released their upgrade directly through multiple carriers at the same time with no problem. RIM can do the same I think.

Exactly ! Plus the technology is out there to do it. There are only a finite # of different cell ph technologies available. A simple "If, Then, Else" loop would rectify one program being able to be used on various networks.

How many people have installed "leaked" OS from another company ? Just remove the vendor file(s) right ? s

I emailed Telus last week inquiring about any updated software for the 9800 (no updates since bought it over a year ago) and they said ask RIM. So now I am asking why doesn't RIM just cut out the middle man ? If they can't release full updates, how about RIM controlling patches and push those updates to us.

[Accidental Post]

Plus the carriers have to put their crapware on the build they get from RIMM. And another issue is devices not all carriers have the same devices. Although the 9900 and 9930 are similar one is GSM and one is CDMA therefore the carriers have to tweak their software RIMM has enough issues to deal with. Could you imagine them trying to release software for every phone they make? Example they release the 9930 software to sprint and vzw then they have to customize it for their devices.

[SC457]

They already develop and release updated OS software for all of their devices, they just leave it up to each carrier to decide if they want to release it to their customers or not. Seems like the carriers would want RIMM to do it so they don't have to deal with it as well.

To me it makes about as much sense as Apple giving internet providers control of releasing updates for their computer software instead of getting it directly from Apple. It's pretty nice to be able to connect to any internet connection and be able to download the latest Apple software for your computer directly.

If carriers actually tweaked any OS then it seems there should be problems with people running that OS on another carrier which as far as I know there isn't any or at least I haven't experienced it. Like many other people I upgrade the OS from other carriers most of the time. Actually I've been running another OS since day one on my AT&T Bold 9900 with no problems.

[JR A]

It's plain and simple:

Carriers want control over what is being pushed to the consumers. On top of bloatware that a carrier will add on top of an OS, they want to make sure that the OS version runs properly on their network infrastructure before it is released to the public. Where do you think most cell phone problems are handled? Definitely not at the phone manufacturer's doorsteps. The cell phone carrier has to deal with all the front-end complaints when a cell phone goes haywire. This is one of the reasons why the carrier wants to make sure the OS is optimal for their network before releasing it to the public.

As you said, RIM is doing OTA differential updates with the PB pretty frequently. Why? Because they can, because they don't have to deal with carriers when it comes to a non-radio connected device like the PB.

[SC457]

I sort of understand that with the carriers wanting control but my point is that it's RM' reputation on how well their devices work, not the carriers. So if an OS has bugs, RIM fixes it with an OS update, but the carriers don't release it, then it's RIM that looks bad.

Plus it's hard to buy the carriers explaination when small er carriers release updated OS software for phones they don't even carry yet.

Just seems it's in RIM best interest to take back the OS update authority to keep their phones running the best. I've been running different OS's that work perfect and don't seem to need to be optimized to run on AT&T network at all.

[JR A]

I sort of understand that with the carriers wanting control but my point is that it's RM' reputation on how well their devices work, not the carriers. So if an OS has bugs, RIM fixes it with an OS update, but the carriers don't release it, then it's RIM that looks bad.

Plus it's hard to buy the carriers explaination when small er carriers release updated OS software for phones they don't even carry yet.

Just seems it's in RIM best interest to take back the OS update authority to keep their phones running the best. I've been running different OS's that work perfect and don't seem to need to be optimized to run on AT&T network at all.

You just answered your own concern.


The carrier doesn't really care if RIM's reputation is upheld or not so they don't have to have that sense of urgency releasing bug fixes. Why? Because if the consumer has a problem with a BB, then well, they can just get another phone. The carriers aren't at a loss because they have a plethora of smartphone options to offer and as long as the consumer is still locked onto their contract, then they're happy...


Yes, you are correct it is in RIM's best interest to take back the OS update authority. However, they have no way of doing so. The carriers control the airwaves and in the end that's what matters. They have the final say.

[SC457]

Exactly, that's why RIM needs to get that contol back somehow as well as customer care with their phone like an Apple Care type deal.

Did the carriers control the Iphone update? If not, then why can't RIM take that control back sooner or later.

Seriously I would have switched from BlackBerry if I wouldn't have found out how to update my 9000 a long time ago. That phone sucked on OS4.6 or whatever it was, after updating to OS5 it was awesome. All held up by AT&T...

Guess m hoping someone at RIM sees this and takes action to get control of OS updates back at their company. They already have all of them on the site anyways, just get the carriers out of the way, which I know wouldn't be easy.

[joehack]

Good point! The fact that RIM sticks to this concept shows that they don't understand todays market. It is derived from a time where smartphones were a strange thing from the future. Now a days, they have to fight against strong competitors.

They have to be transparent on what they are doing. For instance, why don't they release change logs to the public. I want to know why I should upgrade my phone.

[JR A]

The reason RIM doesn't provide updates and support like Apple Care is because they don't have the clout to do so.

Apple has the user base and clout to say to the carriers that they want things done their way. Carriers have to give in due to the demand. Just look at the numbers. No one stood in line for the new BB's at any of the Verizon, Sprint, or AT&T stores on launch day. But they did for iPhone...

RIM does not have this clout, at least not in North America. Again, just looks at the numbers. Carriers don't want to play ball with RIM because quite frankly, they don't have to in order to stay profitable/competitive.

[SC457]

Hard to agrgue against that but then again carriers aren't pushing to sell BlackBerrys now anyway so what are they going to do? Stop selling and carrying BlackBerry all together if they want to take control os releasing OS updates?

Just seems like it's done more because that's the way it's alway been done.

Are Android updates released by the carriers also or is just BlackBerry?

[JR A]

The truth of the matter is that this whole OS update via manufacturer vs. carrier is not a big deal. I am the only person out of the several dozen BB users I have in my contact list that actually new about 7.1 let alone all the other updates.

If AT&T (the carrier you're with) stopped selling BB's all together, it would hurt RIM more than it would AT&T, and that's just my humble opinion. That being said, RIM needs AT&T more than AT&T needs RIM, at least in the US.

But again, the main point is that this isn't really a big deal to the big-wigs that be. No one is tearing down doors to get the next update for a BB...

Android releases are dictated by the carrier as well. But that's probably due to the fact that Android is open source and there are a ton of manufacturers producing Android devices that the carriers would want to make sure everything is fine before releasing to the public.

[SC457]

guess it's not that big of a deal, just sucks since OS updates can really make a BB a lot better and it all depends on the carrier which hold BB back in many cases.

i got started on Crackberry by being fed up with my Bold 9000 and wanted to upgrade the OS not available through AT&T. luckily Crackberry was here to help me upgrade to OS5 and i've been hooked ever since. just shouldn't be so hard to get the latest OS for your device. like i said it would be in RIM's best interest to get control of that some how and show people that even their older devices work a lot better after being upgraded to the most recent OS version.