Keyboard rant, ignore where applicable.

ArcticSilver5 · Thread Author #1 08-07-2009, 10:45 AM

Coming from a Blackjack II, I can am confident in saying that RIM is just as bad as Lenovo in regard to key placement.

Yes, if you place the "Fn" key on the outside corner and the "Ctrl" key on the inside, the "Ctrl" key will be closer to your pinkie. But Lenovo, this has nothing to do with whether it's more convenient or intuitive. Anyone who uses a desktop won't be able to smoothly transition between the two. Users may get used to this layout after a week, but they won't be able to comfortably use other keyboards (a Lenovo business tactic, I'm sure).

The BJII has a near-perfect keyboard. The Shift key is all the way on the outside, so your thumb can blindly approach the keys and the first one it touches will be Shift, useful when you are typing and will have your eye on the letter you want capitalized.

Since I don't notice any difference between space-bar sizes, the smallest one can fit the bill. This allows for more buttons, always a good thing with QWERTY.

Most importantly, I don't see the purpose of dedicating the $ key. Almost 24 hours, 50+ text/emails, and I've yet to press the $ key (except on accident, thinking it was the period key). Even Samsung's blatantly response to RIM, the Blackjack, is able to dedicate period and comma keys.

"HAR HAR HAR, you just have to double-space to period."

NO, I don't have to double space to period. WM devices also added this for periods, but I CHOSE not to use it, as I desire my typing experience to resemble an actual keyboard as much as possible. Do you double space on your desktop too?

Seriously RIM, add more buttons to the bottom row (didn't AT&T add more two 4th row buttons to the original Blackjack?), shrink the space bar, and dedicate ANY punctuation marks (I actually use "Q" and "X" less than I use a period or comma, why don't you make "Q" and "X" alt keys as well

). I had no problem remapping the dedicated AT&T keys on my Blackjack II to bring up my Task Manager and Applications folder, but I AM having a problem remapping the $ key to a period.

Pictures were cropped from IntoMobile and TeleNav Blog

papped · #2 08-07-2009, 11:03 AM

Trading off what BB users are used to for what some other smartphone users are used to wouldn't make sense.

BB os doesn't realy need a CV or email key either, considering Messages is always in the task manager.

cavingjan · #3 08-07-2009, 11:15 AM

It won't take long for you to get used to and then you'll realize just how uncomfortable those bottom outer corner keys were on your old phone. You'll also find that those two "missing" keys provide very valuable space for comfortably holding the BB one handed without accidentally pressing a key. Trying to hold the phone under the space bar is just too awkward.

Iceman0803 · #4 08-07-2009, 11:20 AM

Why are you even using the shift key? you can capitalize a letter by holding it down. Just an fyi. As for the currency key i don't see a real need for that either but I can only speak for myself.

ArcticSilver5 · Thread Author #5 08-07-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papped

Trading off what BB users are used to for what some other smartphone users are used to wouldn't make sense.

BB os doesn't realy need a CV or email key either, considering Messages is always in the task manager.

Yes, but those keys were easily mapped. By easily I mean I looked up how, went in my registry, and replaced the necessary text with links to my applications and Task Manager.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavingjan

It won't take long for you to get used to and then you'll realize just how uncomfortable those bottom outer corner keys were on your old phone. You'll also find that those two "missing" keys provide very valuable space for comfortably holding the BB one handed without accidentally pressing a key. Trying to hold the phone under the space bar is just too awkward.

What? Really? How do you hold your phone? My positioning feels very natural and the only part of my finger that touches the keys is the very tips of my thumbs. I really would never notice the difference in feel of the two corner buttons. Attached 2 pictures of how I hold my phone when typing. My thumbs never touch the phone unless they're about to type something, and that's only the fingertip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman0803

Why are you even using the shift key? you can capitalize a letter by holding it down. Just an fyi. As for the currency key i don't see a real need for that either but I can only speak for myself.

Thanks for the tip! The problem is that I type fairly fast, and in the time I spend holding down to capitalize, I would have already hit 3 or 4 other keys. It's really a hindrance waiting. It takes zero time to hit the shift key, given TWO thumbs. I guess it's just natural for me to run my thumb along the left keys until I hit the last one. Maybe I'll get used to it.

I hope no one misunderstands. I LOVE my new BB 8900. It's fast and does everything I need from a phone. However, because I'd like to keep coming back to RIM products, I definitely want to see some improvements made on the next phone. I'm sorry, but I just haven't heard ANY valid arguments for the keyboard that I couldn't dismiss in a second. The keyboard hardware quality is crap too. Why is it acceptable that the keyboard tray shifts 1 mm in every direction? Or that the Send/End keys cause the corners of the screen to warp? I wouldn't be complaining if I didn't want RIM to fix it for their next release.

ArcticSilver5 · Thread Author #6 08-07-2009, 01:03 PM

Another thing about the bottom row, why does "0" get it's own dedicated key? 1-9 are alt keys, but for some reason, the infrequent "0" gets its own key? C'mon RIM, at least stay consistent and make all numeric keys alt keys and let the 0 key be a punctuation mark. What really confuses me is the 2 shift keys.

Does anyone even use the right shift key on their desktop? I won't be hitting any keys marked "aA↑" in the near future.

Propa · #7 08-07-2009, 01:06 PM

....I love my Bold keyboard...I'm preety garsh darn fast/accurate too

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Username00089 · #8 08-07-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticSilver5

Another thing about the bottom row, why does "0" get it's own dedicated key? 1-9 are alt keys, but for some reason, the infrequent "0" gets its own key? C'mon RIM, at least stay consistent and make all numeric keys alt keys and let the 0 key be a punctuation mark. What really confuses me is the 2 shift keys.

Does anyone even use the right shift key on their desktop? I won't be hitting any keys marked "aA↑" in the near future.

Those of us who use lots of zero's after a number find it convinient.

ArcticSilver5 · Thread Author #9 08-07-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Propa

....I love my Bold keyboard...I'm preety garsh darn fast/accurate too

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Same layout as the 8900. Have you tried a Blackjack II keyboard? The shape of the keys are a little better on the Samsung, but it doesn't really make a huge difference after a week of use.

papped · #10 08-07-2009, 01:11 PM

Dedicated "0" works, since it gets used a lot.

Quote:

I'm sorry, but I just haven't heard ANY valid arguments for the keyboard that I couldn't dismiss in a second.

That's just it though, you probably never will. You are sold on your stance so whatever people bring up is likely to be dismissed.
I highly doubt that if most the people here used a BJ2 keyboard, they would claim it's better.

Quote:

Thanks for the tip! The problem is that I type fairly fast, and in the time I spend holding down to capitalize, I would have already hit 3 or 4 other keys. It's really a hindrance waiting.

See this is another personal preference. A LOT of people prefer double tap/hold tap for alt/shift, etc. They have apps writen to provide this functionality to other OSes.

As for spacebar size, a lot of customers do care and prefer a larger spacebar size. The n97 got dinged just recently for it's small spacebar.

papped · #11 08-07-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticSilver5

NO, I don't have to double space to period. WM devices also added this for periods, but I CHOSE not to use it, as I desire my typing experience to resemble an actual keyboard as much as possible. Do you double space on your desktop too?

Keyboards are 2handed use, have more keys, use different input methods, and are running a different OS entirely. I seriously doubt anyone cares if the input methods differ from that of a PC...

NoahFecks · #12 08-07-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticSilver5

Does anyone even use the right shift key on their desktop?

Ummm, standard typing on a desktop keyboard requires using both shift keys.

Seems to me these issues are extremely trivial. Every company has their own idea on how things should be laid out and used, if every phone were exactly the same where would the competition be? So what if things are different than they are on another phone, you learn and get used to the new keyboard of a new phone, it's not the end of the world. I had the HTC/AT&T Fuze before I got my Bold and I was very used to the layout of that keyboard, obviously much more spacious and simple. I knew there would be a bit if a learning curve when switching to the BB but it didn't turn me off from buying it or make me want to pull my hair out because things are a bit different, I simply got used to it. Not that difficult to do and certainly not worth getting worked up over.

Now, the hardware issues you have are a different story. The kb shouldn't be shifting at all, nor should a key press affect the screen. You could just have a defective unit, if it's still under warranty I would get it replaced.

cavingjan · #13 08-07-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticSilver5

What? Really? How do you hold your phone? My positioning feels very natural and the only part of my finger that touches the keys is the very tips of my thumbs. I really would never notice the difference in feel of the two corner buttons. Attached 2 pictures of how I hold my phone when typing. My thumbs never touch the phone unless they're about to type something, and that's only the fingertip.

Walking and using the phone one handed? - right thumb to the left of the capitalization button.
Two handed? - held by the sides.

I only use it two handed when I'm actually typing long messages. Its the same way I held my treo 700p before that. I've tried Blackjacks in the past and typing just felt odd.

But this truly is a case of personal preference. Your opinion is no better or worse than mine. Just different.

crackzilla · #14 08-07-2009, 03:09 PM

Give it time you will get used to it. It's all about personal preference. If I downgraded to an inferior device like the wackjack I would find much more monumental faults.

Propa · #15 08-07-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticSilver5

Same layout as the 8900. Have you tried a Blackjack II keyboard? The shape of the keys are a little better on the Samsung, but it doesn't really make a huge difference after a week of use.

Yea I've tried it...its just not for me

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com