[kbz1960]

Fair enough.

I would point out that negativity and combativeness are in the air around here, with or without me. Like the company, BB users have become strident, combative, and offensive. The same thing happened to Palm's following. They turned kind of nasty, much like the company.

There are two other companies fighting for their lives: Nokia and MS. Yet, they seem to be generating good will from people. They are not seen as negative, bitter, small-minded people. I think the industry, and fans, want to see them succeed. My point is that it doesn't have to be this way during tough times. RIM is making enemies while MS is making friends. Who could have seen that coming?

And you come to this conclusion from a few people on a forum? Do you constantly post negative things on win and Nokia forums? Do you tell them their choice is dead?

Apple may not pay for product placement but they paid someone to get their products placed. Who knows what they did.
iPhones and iMacs in Movies: Does Apple Pay? | Mobile and Social Media

[dandbj13]

In one thread you work in advertising, in another thread you're an IT technician, are you also a fireman and astronaut

OK, here's an update of my resume': I have worked in advertising, but it has been a few years. Most of my professional career has been in sales and marketing. Advertising is always where I wanted to be, though, and had a nice run with it. I have been a tech guy since the early nineties. I started doing some consulting work with that, on and off, because I enjoy it. The company that I was working full-time for, lost a major client, recently. So I only do the odd job for them these days. They are all BB users.

These days, I have a bit more time to work with none-profs. I am working with one as a media relations specialist. I help them form their message and get them good press. (There is most certainly a difference between good and bad press). Through it all I have been a musician. I used to do that full time when I was younger. Now, I only perform when time permits.

I can only smile a bit when told how lazy, unproductive, and stupid I am based on my choice of phone. I guess I am to conclude that I could have been so much more had I been using a BB.

Hope that helps. Do I get to stay in the clubhouse, now?

[brucep1]

Fair enough.

I would point out that negativity and combativeness are in the air around here, with or without me. Like the company, BB users have become strident, combative, and offensive. The same thing happened to Palm's following. They turned kind of nasty, much like the company.

There are two other companies fighting for their lives: Nokia and MS. Yet, they seem to be generating good will from people. They are not seen as negative, bitter, small-minded people. I think the industry, and fans, want to see them succeed. My point is that it doesn't have to be this way during tough times. RIM is making enemies while MS is making friends. Who could have seen that coming?

Yes, things have gotten testy in here as of late. I'm sure I could find 100 articles online about how RIM is really screwed, but people don't want to hear about it on here anymore.

If you keep posting negative articles, most of the users on here will turn on you. If you look at the link Xandermac posted in the News and Rumors section, you'll know what I mean.

Just don't want to see the banhammer leveled on ya...Friendly reminder.

[alnamvet68]

As long as you're back peddaling OP, be sure to pause, and take note of the sign over the clubhouse door...it says BlackBerry.

[anthogag]

OK, here's an update of my resume': I have worked in advertising, but it has been a few years. Most of my professional career has been in sales and marketing. Advertising is always where I wanted to be, though, and had a nice run with it. I have been a tech guy since the early nineties. I started doing some consulting work with that, on and off, because I enjoy it. The company that I was working full-time for, lost a major client, recently. So I only do the odd job for them these days. They are all BB users.

These days, I have a bit more time to work with none-profs. I am working with one as a media relations specialist. I help them form their message and get them good press. (There is most certainly a difference between good and bad press). Through it all I have been a musician. I used to do that full time when I was younger. Now, I only perform when time permits.

I can only smile a bit when told how lazy, unproductive, and stupid I am based on my choice of phone. I guess I am to conclude that I could have been so much more had I been using a BB.

Hope that helps. Do I get to stay in the clubhouse, now?

This explains why you dislike BlackBerry and come here with all the garbage you can find

[omniusovermind]

Do I get to stay in the clubhouse, now?

Have you ever seen those Wiserhood commercials? They're not clapping for you now.

[jegs2]

In short, RIM is wasting their time and money trying to position themselves as anti-Apple. Google already beat them to it. RIM needs to rethink who their competition is.

Concur with that assessment. IMO, Blackberry is on the right track with the "those that do" ads, aiming squarely at their traditional strength - the business market.

As to unpaid product placement, saw it in Two and a Half Men yesterday. They showed what were plainly Apple computers, with the Apple logo covered by other stickers. So yeah, guess Apple didn't pay them enough to take off the stickers.

[anthogag]

Concur with that assessment. IMO, Blackberry is on the right track with the "those that do" ads, aiming squarely at their traditional strength - the business market.

As to unpaid product placement, saw it in Two and a Half Men yesterday. They showed what were plainly Apple computers, with the Apple logo covered by other stickers. So yeah, guess Apple didn't pay them enough to take off the stickers.

Stickers, because otherwise it's an extended Apple commercial

IMO, product placement in movies and tv shows takes away from the experience...this means there's a cost...

IMO, the OP is delusional

[sleepngbear]

This whole thread sucks. I know that is just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure most of the regular BB folks share it, and nobody else in here seems to have a problem repeating every other obvious point ever thrown in our faces every day in hundreds of other threads, so why not pile on. I'd quote the OP directly, but he's got tenure on my ignore list. And because I'm mobile I didn't see who started it or I wouldn't have opened it in the first place.

This thread sucks.

[jivegirl14]

Apple Product Placement Rising On Television, In Movies -- AppAdvice

To put it simply, Hollywood loves Apple products. Apple does not pay for product placement like every other company. They don't have to. Very much like every other company, they give plenty of swag to Hollywood. RIM simply does not have this kind of mindshare in Hollywood.

No matter how hard RIM tries to convince the masses that they are lazy and stupid, it just doesn't compute. If it is good enough for Ironman, it's probably good enough for them. When every cool and successful person they aspire to be is carrying an iPhone by choice, that is a powerful image.

The best example of this was the moment after the Superbowl when the trophy was being passed around. All the players whipped out their own, personal iPhones to capture the moment. Apple did even have to advertise to get on of the best promotions of the game. Chevy's iPhone and Android app for their contest didn't hurt either.

Personally, I hate Celebrity ads and product placement. It feels like a cheap ploy to buy popularity that you have not earned from the public. That probably can't be said of Apple, but I don't like their celebrity ads anymore than I like anyone else's. The product placement, though, is unheard of. I can't calculate the millions they are getting in free mindshare.

In short, RIM is wasting their time and money trying to position themselves as anti-Apple. Google already beat them to it. RIM needs to rethink who their competition is. It is Google, and perhaps, Microsoft. It might have been HP had they stayed in business long enough to compete with anyone. RIM has to dump this obsession with Apple. No one will even look at BB10 if it is marketed as the alternative to the iPhone. People are not looking for alternatives to the iPhone.

The anti-Apple market is quickly becoming a two-way race between Android and WP7 in the US. RIM is not even in that conversation. WP7 did not gain momentum by positioning itself against Apple and the world. MS is doing a lot of things right, as much as it pains me to say it. RIM can learn a lot from that approach. RIM might want to take on Moto, or HTC. They can fight winnable battles that don't polarize people into in-groups and out-groups.

Have at it.

My thoughts are
1. I would need to see it in writing from Apple that Apple doesn't need to pay for product placement. Most companies do and I bet, one way or another Apple pays for product placement. At least some of the time.
2. Celebrity product placement and ads work, regardless of how one personally feels about them. Whenever I see a product in a film or show I believe they've paid to have it there, whether that be Apple or anyone else.
3. RIM has many challenges to overcome and I think everyone here is well aware of this (so posting that over and over isn't going to get you brownie points but maybe will get you a verbal lynching) but I thought they'd already said they are not going to try and outdo the competition but focus on their own niche. Being unconcerned about the competition is partly what landed them in the place they are in. They should have been obsessed with Apple much earlier.
4. Until RIM launches the new BB10 phone all the talk about what they should or should not do is moot. Or speculation. Products tried and trusted here vs products yet to come = no contest. There are no guarantees but all bets are off. If the phone is a runaway success, hurrah. If it bombs....I think it's more likely to be a success on the other hand there's also no guarantee it will be enough. People need it to fly off the shelves.
5. The BB10 phone might well be an alternative to the iphone for some users who may want or be looking to try something new (and different from) iPhone. It's not out yet so only time will tell. RIM would be silly not to court them.
6. I am not getting into an argument or back and forth on this, I merely wanted to state an objective viewpoint because in the end the phones need to be available for people to get their hands on them.

[dandbj13]

My thoughts are
1. I would need to see it in writing from Apple that Apple doesn't need to pay for product placement. Most companies do and I bet, one way or another Apple pays for product placement.

Why? You would have to see it in writing from Apple before you believed it. Really? Why is that so hard to believe? Do you really think Apple and RIM are on the same playing field? The same is true for spiffs at retail stores. Every one else pays bonuses to sales people to push their product. Not Apple. They don't need to. MS, on the other hand, pays $15 per WP7 phone.

This kind of reaction is exactly why you need this kind of thread. It lets you know what is happening in the real world. You discuss this stuff as if you had some idea what was going on. Clearly, that is not the case. Attacking me will not change RIM's fortunes. You've got to get outside of crackberry.com from time to time. This is what RIM did as a company for too long. Whenever they were presented with a fact about the competition they didn't like, they just said it couldn't possibly be true. That's a bad plan. You can't talk about how to fix it if you turn a deaf ear to the facts.

I would love to see RIM straighten this out. But you can't fix what you will not acknowledge. I don't make a penny more by watching RIM go out of business. None of you make a penny more if they remain. How about having discussions based on the real problems in the real world, not just the ones that headquarters says is OK to acknowledge.

You may consider my posts negative, but I've actually suggested things that could help RIM. Blind cheerleading and shooting the messenger will not add a single day to RIM's existence. So stop pretending like RIM is your mother. Their a company. If I say something you think is negative about their business, they can take it. Stop personalizing discussions about a faceless company.

For anyone who just can't believe it, find proof for your assertion and post it. Then discredit the sources of the original article. I didn't write it.

[omniusovermind]

This kind of reaction is exactly why you need this kind of thread. It lets you know what is happening in the real world. You discuss this stuff as if you had some idea what was going on. Clearly, that is not the case. Attacking me will not change RIM's fortunes. You've got to get outside of crackberry.com from time to time. This is what RIM did as a company for too long. Whenever they were presented with a fact about the competition they didn't like, they just said it couldn't possibly be true. That's a bad plan. You can't talk about how to fix it if you turn a deaf ear to the facts.

I would love to see RIM straighten this out. But you can't fix what you will not acknowledge. I don't make a penny more by watching RIM go out of business. None of you make a penny more if they remain. How about having discussions based on the real problems in the real world, not just the ones that headquarters says is OK to acknowledge.

You may consider my posts negative, but I've actually suggested things that could help RIM.

My biggest issue with your assertions is: What difference do you think your posts on this forum will make to the company? Do you believe perhaps that RIM has staff members with any sway in the company on the payroll to monitor this particular forum on this website, for the purpose of datamining user posts for ideas on their company policy?

The vehemence of your arguments leads me to believe that you really do believe that what gets said in this thread will have some sort of impact on RIM policy. I believe that it won't be seen or heard any more than me and my co-workers complaining about management over a beer at the pub will somehow reach our head bosses at HQ

[shemaree09]

I may be watching the wrong tv shows and/or movies, or maybe BB's just stand out to me more, but i still see more BB's than iphones when it comes to celebrities.

same here. But im noticing that they usually have a Blackberry and an iPhone, especially on reality shows. I think the show issues Blackberry's to them to keep in touch and keep show info private (via BBM). The iPhone is usually their personal phone.

Im movies they usually have a Blackberry. Especially if the character is of importance or business-like.

[qbnkelt]

OK, here's an update of my resume': I have worked in advertising, but it has been a few years. Most of my professional career has been in sales and marketing. Advertising is always where I wanted to be, though, and had a nice run with it. I have been a tech guy since the early nineties. I started doing some consulting work with that, on and off, because I enjoy it. The company that I was working full-time for, lost a major client, recently. So I only do the odd job for them these days. They are all BB users.

These days, I have a bit more time to work with none-profs. I am working with one as a media relations specialist. I help them form their message and get them good press. (There is most certainly a difference between good and bad press). Through it all I have been a musician. I used to do that full time when I was younger. Now, I only perform when time permits.

I can only smile a bit when told how lazy, unproductive, and stupid I am based on my choice of phone. I guess I am to conclude that I could have been so much more had I been using a BB.

Hope that helps. Do I get to stay in the clubhouse, now?

Since I do not see any affiliation to any studio, it would be accurate to say that you have never worked a propmaster in any film or TV show. As such, it is safe to say that the original premise of your post is successful in only one thing - your desire to incite as evidenced by your ever so clever parting shot, "Have at it."
Hhhhmmmm......*looks for CB's definition of "troll."*

Yup......just as I thought.....


http://forums.crackberry.com/general...-trash-609572/

[jivegirl14]

Why? You would have to see it in writing from Apple before you believed it. Really? Why is that so hard to believe? Do you really think Apple and RIM are on the same playing field? The same is true for spiffs at retail stores. Every one else pays bonuses to sales people to push their product. Not Apple. They don't need to. MS, on the other hand, pays $15 per WP7 phone.

This kind of reaction is exactly why you need this kind of thread. It lets you know what is happening in the real world. You discuss this stuff as if you had some idea what was going on. Clearly, that is not the case. Attacking me will not change RIM's fortunes. You've got to get outside of crackberry.com from time to time. This is what RIM did as a company for too long. Whenever they were presented with a fact about the competition they didn't like, they just said it couldn't possibly be true. That's a bad plan. You can't talk about how to fix it if you turn a deaf ear to the facts.

I would love to see RIM straighten this out. But you can't fix what you will not acknowledge. I don't make a penny more by watching RIM go out of business. None of you make a penny more if they remain. How about having discussions based on the real problems in the real world, not just the ones that headquarters says is OK to acknowledge.

You may consider my posts negative, but I've actually suggested things that could help RIM. Blind cheerleading and shooting the messenger will not add a single day to RIM's existence. So stop pretending like RIM is your mother. Their a company. If I say something you think is negative about their business, they can take it. Stop personalizing discussions about a faceless company.

For anyone who just can't believe it, find proof for your assertion and post it. Then discredit the sources of the original article. I didn't write it.

You sound VERY angry.

You seem to have inferred exactly what you wanted to from my response (most of it wrongly) not what I actually wrote and you want an argument. Not going to happen.

Can't seem to find where I attacked you, or personalized anything but that's ok: you've done quite well attacking on your own.

Since without you no one would know what was happening in "the real world" well, I suppose everyone should be grateful to you for showing them the light.

[dandbj13]

Since I do not see any affiliation to any studio, it would be accurate to say that you have never worked a propmaster in any film or TV show. As such, it is safe to say that the original premise of your post...

Do explain. Tell me about your experience as a prop master in the industry. Then, tell me how that refutes the article saying that Apple does not pay for product placement. All you people who have an issue with that, make your case. A lot of people would love to see it. It has been common knowledge for a while. Here's your chance to blow it out of the water. Why is it so hard to believe? Who do you think is making it up?

[qbnkelt]

Do explain. Tell me about your experience as a prop master in the industry. Then, tell me how that refutes the article saying that Apple does not pay for product placement. All you people who have an issue with that, make your case. A lot of people would love to see it. It has been common knowledge for a while. Here's your chance to blow it out of the water. Why is it so hard to believe? Who do you think is making it up?

LOL!!!!!

I have made no claims whatsoever to work in the industry nor do I claim to know their advertising practices, which you do, based on one article by one producer as quoted on an Apple sympathysing site.

You started the thread. Let's see your conversation or your data with industry insiders. And remember that the transfer of cash is not the only means by which industries subsidise. Most glaring example - Academy Awards.

But you work "in marketing" and "in advertising" so you are very familiar with the power of subliminal advertising. They should be second nature.

If you believe that any company does anything without a view to the bottom line, you are sadly mistaken. Apple, through Jobs, became a giant through their exceptional products AND massive understanding and manipulation of the consumer market.

Taking a page from your own personal style.....go ahead.....dispute that..,.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OniBerry]

Brian De Palma saved 500,000 when Apple agreed to provide products if Apple promoted the movie during it's ads. Which they did.

Sides, Apple may not pay for product placement, but they (studios, execs, pms, etc...) get to keep the hardware after filming is over. Most consider it a fair trade. I believe Studio execs call that 'Promotional Considerations'

[qbnkelt]

Or quid pro quo.

We will use your products and display your logo in our films if you will bank roll the project. Supplying products serves this need. Apple has an uncanny, keen understanding of marketing.

[Laridae]

Apple Product Placement Rising On Television, In Movies -- AppAdvice

To put it simply, Hollywood loves Apple products. Apple does not pay for product placement like every other company. They don't have to. Very much like every other company, they give plenty of swag to Hollywood. RIM simply does not have this kind of mindshare in Hollywood.

Have at it.

So? The California and U.S. markets are affluent and desirable, yes, but they are hardly the only potential markets on the planet. If memory serves there are currently about 7 billion potential consumers on planet earth. I'll leave it to you to do the math and figure out what a small fraction that is.

The domestic market may be "top of mind" but only for minds that don't get out much! So let's not believe our own hype. There's more to the world than Hollywood. They don't call it "Tinsel Town" for nothing!

[dandbj13]

So? The California and U.S. markets are affluent and desirable, yes, but they are hardly the only potential markets on the planet. If memory serves there are currently about 7 billion potential consumers on planet earth. I'll leave it to you to do the math and figure out what a small fraction that is.

Your math is already wrong. There are not 7 billion potential consumer of smartphones on planet earth. The vast majority live in unspeakable poverty. A significant portion will never have clean, indoor water or electricity. The potential market for luxury goods is considerably smaller than you think. Even in America, a significant portion of the population will never have a smartphone. You are applying a first-world metric to the whole world. That is a mistake.

Arguably, everybody who wants one, and can get one, already has one. When you are assessing the market of today and the near future, 7 billion is not even close to a realistic number.

[hurds]

Worlds population is growing. Even a fraction of 7 billion is still an extremely large number.

Lets face it, an iPhone is NOT a luxury device anymore. Everyone has them and its not hard to get one. Its a commodity device. The real growth is going to be outside the US. apples big differentiator siri better be a quick learner, because shes going to have to learn some new languages. I also imagine the app-gap is kinda worthless since the majority of the people in the world do not speak english.

The 'Wake Up' event was pure marketing genius and it appears the OP is one of the people who still hasn't woken up.

When apple wasn't the company it is today their big marketing campaign were those commercials with Mac guy and PC guy. It worked for apple to be anti-PC so its can easily work for RIM to be the anti-apple. Reading posts like the OPs make me like apple less and less.

[G-bone]

Well, everybody wants to talk about a race between apple, google, and windows?
Those are all american companies...
So, who's not?

[wuulfy]

Well, everybody wants to talk about a race between apple, google, and windows?
Those are all american companies...
So, who's not?

time has come for a europhone....but it will be in development for twenty years, and will run over budget.

[brucep1]

The 'Wake Up' event was pure marketing genius and it appears the OP is one of the people who still hasn't woken up.

So Genius that it gave Samsung free advertising because people initially thought they were behind it. Did you see the countdown?

When apple wasn't the company it is today their big marketing campaign were those commercials with Mac guy and PC guy. It worked for apple to be anti-PC so its can easily work for RIM to be the anti-apple.

This logic is incredibly flawed. Remember that PC users greatly outnumber Mac users.