Defended RIM on the radio, sorta :)

[BitPusher2600]

So, every morning when I clock out from work I listen to our local conservative talk radio station 640 WHLO. A fellow named Jim Albright has "the morning show" and in his last hour, asks an email poll question. Today he was talking about FoxConn and mentioned a lot of big companies including Apple of course, as well as IBM, HP and more. He then went on to talk about the working conditions, suicide rates, and atrocious data we have on them, and the question after the commentary was "Would you be willing to pay more for your electronics, like your iPads, computers, and BlackBerries to the companies that utilize this Chinese labor if they were instead to manufacture them right here in the US."
I wrote back saying BlackBerry products are primarily manufactured in Canada, Mexico, and Taiwan, but they do however have a lot of their accessories manufactured in China; no idea if THOSE are FoxConn or someone more reputable. I also mentioned as a sincere customer of Research In Motion, I'm glad neither my Berry or PlayBook are manufactured by FoxConn.

Of course, there was ample hatred in a lot of the emails he read off regarding Apple. Some declaring they won't buy Apple products period, while others attacked them for being one of the most profitable companies in the country and also happen to have a ZERO record for philanthropy.

Going back to the part I'm not sure of; are the BlackBerry accesories that are made in China FoxConn? Wouldn't change my loyalty to RIM one bit, but I guess I would be a bit disappointed at that particular piece of information.

[BB10FTW]

As far as I know RIM has nothing to do with Foxconn and Thank God they don't.
Mike Lazaridis was brought up in a Christian family and remains with those beliefs today so I would find it hard to believe he would go with any company who treats their employees like trash.
Now before a religious battle ensues I am just pointing out that given Mike's track record with donations and giving back and his firm belief in God that it is unlikely in MY mind that he would have anything to do with these companies.

[sam_b77]

Originally Posted by BB10FTW

As far as I know RIM has nothing to do with Foxconn and Thank God they don't.
Mike Lazaridis was brought up in a Christian family and remains with those beliefs today so I would find it hard to believe he would go with any company who treats their employees like trash.
Now before a religious battle ensues I am just pointing out that given Mike's track record with donations and giving back and his firm belief in God that it is unlikely in MY mind that he would have anything to do with these companies.

How do you equate belief in God with being "good" whatever that mean?

There are ample examples of people who believe in god doing atrocious things. Far more in fact than of them doing good things.

This is a BB forum and lets stick to that. Let's not bring in irrelevant things like god into the mix.

[brucep1]

Originally Posted by BitPusher2600

I wrote back saying BlackBerry products are primarily manufactured in Canada, Mexico, and Taiwan, but they do however have a lot of their accessories manufactured in China; no idea if THOSE are FoxConn or someone more reputable. I also mentioned as a sincere customer of Research In Motion, I'm glad neither my Berry or PlayBook are manufactured by FoxConn.

Going back to the part I'm not sure of; are the BlackBerry accesories that are made in China FoxConn? Wouldn't change my loyalty to RIM one bit, but I guess I would be a bit disappointed at that particular piece of information.

Originally Posted by BB10FTW

As far as I know RIM has nothing to do with Foxconn and Thank God they don't.

Unfortunately, the odds are stacked pretty high that RIM has used, is using, and will use Foxconn to manufacture some part of their phones. Foxconn has too much industry reach to believe that RIM has never done business with them.

Plus, if RIM hadn't used Foxconn at all for anything, we would have heard about it already. It would have been a good advantage to use.

Fact is, Foxconn has caught everyone tech company's hands in the cookie jar and no one is clean. Cheap parts and labor comes at a cost.

[bbpandy]

If you read that TIMES article a few weeks ago you see that other major brands pay FoxConn & other chinese companies extra $$ on top of their contract. These funds have to be used exclusivly to promote the working conditions of the people making their products. They also insist on safety policies being used at those same companies. Apple does not. Foxconn & others recieve no extra $$$ from Apple to ensure their employees don't work in the death trap.

At Foxconn how safe your working conditions are depends on if your making iProducts or Dells/HPs, ect.

[Palmless]

Originally Posted by bbpandy

If you read that TIMES article a few weeks ago you see that other major brands pay FoxConn & other chinese companies extra $$ on top of their contract. These funds have to be used exclusivly to promote the working conditions of the people making their products. They also insist on safety policies being used at those same companies. Apple does not. Foxconn & others recieve no extra $$$ from Apple to ensure their employees don't work in the death trap.

At Foxconn how safe your working conditions are depends on if your making iProducts or Dells/HPs, ect.

Uniquely, Apple can extract such concessions simply by granting or denying more business. If they were smaller, they'd need to pay extra money for extra concessions, but at these volume levels...

[ADozenEggs@aol.com]

Are you kidding me?? Apple gave over $100mm to charity last year. Zero???

But, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? Right?

[SnoozerBold]

While I'm not a fan of most Apple products and love my bb I don't see any of this info about Foxconn changing anyones opinions or decisions in the products they purchase. Fact is most people will buy what they prefer anyways no matter where of how its made. And as stated while bb may not be produced by foxconn its almost 100% true that some part of bb is made there.
Most people in North america just flat out don't care. Even electronic aside how many of the products we use are made in China or third world countries by slave labour? Shoes, clothes, tvs, computers, everything. Its cheaper to make cheaper to sell and we all eat it up. It sucks because people are exploited and millions of jobs that could be done here in North America are shipped over seas.
Hopefully these stories in recent weeks will change some practices but I just don't see it happening.
I'm Canadian and would love to see all Blackberry phones and tablets made here by Canadians but unless the worlds business practices and economies are suddenly turned on its head somehow nothing is going to change

[BitPusher2600]

Originally Posted by ADozenEggs@aol.com

Are you kidding me?? Apple gave over $100mm to charity last year. Zero???

But, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? Right?

No, I'm not an Apple hater first of all, in fact a loyal Macintosh kinda guy (assuming this "iGeneration" still calls them that) so there is no "good story", nor did I mention anything to do with that subject on the air. I would in fact like to see some proof, some source information. I've never once read anything about any specific donations to any charities. With a 13billion dollar profit line, they certainly could, I've just never heard it.

[ADozenEggs@aol.com]

Originally Posted by BitPusher2600

No, I'm not an Apple hater first of all, in fact a loyal Macintosh kinda guy (assuming this "iGeneration" still calls them that) so there is no "good story", nor did I mention anything to do with that subject on the air. I would in fact like to see some proof, some source information. I've never once read anything about any specific donations to any charities. With a 13billion dollar profit line, they certainly could, I've just never heard it.

Then seek out that proof. I don't do research for folks. Somewhat arrogant to say that you hadn't heard of something so, by default, it doesn't happen

Stating that Apple has given $0 to charities and using this false assumption as a device or cause for ill will just isn't cool.

[PlayBookUserMT]

Originally Posted by ADozenEggs@aol.com

Then seek out that proof. I don't do research for folks. Somewhat arrogant to say that you hadn't heard of something so, by default, it doesn't happen

Stating that Apple has given $0 to charities and using this false assumption as a device or cause for ill will just isn't cool.

It also makes more sense to assume something isn't true until it is proven so. If he has seen nothing to believe apple has donated money to charity, then there's no reason to believe they have.

It's also common knowledge that one of good old Job's business decisions was to cut ALL philanthropic endeavours when he returned to Apple. Job didn't believe in it.

Now, recently Tim Cook has said otherwise as he has decided to reinstate the philanthropy projects. So its a yes and no sort of deal. In all the years Jobs was around there was no philanthropy, on the other hand Cook has started it back up, but is shouting from the roof tops that they gave away less than 0.4% of the companies 26 billion dollar profits (that's assumming 100 million in donations...). At the same time we have the retired Bill Gates giving out this much on a nearly monthly basis, and at times contributing billions all at once.

Yes Bill Gates is exceptionally wealthy, but he did not have as much money as all of microsoft, and not nearly as much as Apple. For a private citizen to donate more than the most valuable company in the world illustrates how much Apple really cares..

Edit: Bill Gates (Private Citizen) has donated >28 Billion to charity
Apple inc. (World's largest corporation) has donated < 0.5 Billion to charity (seems more like a tax write off...probably helps out with what they actually keep in the states and don't hide in foreign accounts)

[trelawrence]

In my line of work, I rely on the goodness of others to make a living. I will say this: an outward show of philanthropy is meaningless.

Weighing how much a person cares by how much they give (or make a show of giving) is especially naive.

Note that I am not saying that money given is not needed; I am just saying that basing reputation on amount of cash donated can be very, very misleading.

Also, big business and ethics do NOT mix. That's the way it is. Shareholders want the most profit for the least amount of input.

[ADozenEggs@aol.com]

Originally Posted by PlayBookUserMT

It also makes more sense to assume something isn't true until it is proven so. If he has seen nothing to believe apple has donated money to charity, then there's no reason to believe they have.

It's also common knowledge that one of good old Job's business decisions was to cut ALL philanthropic endeavours when he returned to Apple. Job didn't believe in it.

Now, recently Tim Cook has said otherwise as he has decided to reinstate the philanthropy projects. So its a yes and no sort of deal. In all the years Jobs was around there was no philanthropy, on the other hand Cook has started it back up, but is shouting from the roof tops that they gave away less than 0.4% of the companies 26 billion dollar profits (that's assumming 100 million in donations...). At the same time we have the retired Bill Gates giving out this much on a nearly monthly basis, and at times contributing billions all at once.

Yes Bill Gates is exceptionally wealthy, but he did not have as much money as all of microsoft, and not nearly as much as Apple. For a private citizen to donate more than the most valuable company in the world illustrates how much Apple really cares..

Edit: Bill Gates (Private Citizen) has donated >28 Billion to charity
Apple inc. (World's largest corporation) has donated < 0.5 Billion to charity (seems more like a tax write off...probably helps out with what they actually keep in the states and don't hide in foreign accounts)

So Apple doesn't care, by your sarcasm, because they don't away as much money as you believe they should. AND, they only do so for tax breaks. Oh yeah, and they hide funds in off-shore accts?

Wow. I guess I got an education today. Can't believe I've so ignorant all these years.

Drivel.

[PlayBookUserMT]

Originally Posted by ADozenEggs@aol.com

So Apple doesn't care, by your sarcasm, because they don't away as much money as you believe they should. AND, they only do so for tax breaks. Oh yeah, and they hide funds in off-shore accts?

Wow. I guess I got an education today. Can't believe I've so ignorant all these years.

Drivel.

Apple gives away far faaaar less than they are capable of. Giving away money is commonly used as a way to receive tax breaks, and its common business practice in the united states for fortune 500 companies to have money stored in foreign accounts. Its not illegal and if you do it right you pay far less taxes. If you didn't know any of this you're either a little kid, a troll, or uninformed on how the business world works.

If you don't know any of this you most certainly need to further your education, watch the news, learn to use google, or stop trolling.

Looking at the date you joined and the number of posts you have, I think its safe to say you're an ifan troll. Go back to your own forum please.

Normally I would be happy to provide sources for what I say, but as you have said above it is not your style to teach others, so please do the research yourself and look up what I have mentioned before coming back with a sarcastic and rude retort.

[BitPusher2600]

Originally Posted by PlayBookUserMT

Apple gives away far faaaar less than they are capable of. Giving away money is commonly used as a way to receive tax breaks, and its common business practice in the united states for fortune 500 companies to have money stored in foreign accounts. Its not illegal and if you do it right you pay far less taxes. If you didn't know any of this you're either a little kid, a troll, or uninformed on how the business world works.

If you don't know any of this you most certainly need to further your education, watch the news, learn to use google, or stop trolling.

Looking at the date you joined and the number of posts you have, I think its safe to say you're an ifan troll. Go back to your own forum please.

Normally I would be happy to provide sources for what I say, but as you have said above it is not your style to teach others, so please do the research yourself and look up what I have mentioned before coming back with a sarcastic and rude retort.

He may be trolling, maybe not, I see his point. He doesn't like the idea of someone assuming things. I am 30, and my kindergarten was the first in the area to have an Apple //e, and my first computer that was truly my own as a kid was a Mac SE. So, dozeneggs, I grew up with Apple. What my fellow PB user mentioned about Jobs was relatively common knowledge. I lost my heart and loyalty to Apple when the iGeneration kiddies were born, and Apple became what I like to call a "Starbucks demographic." When Steve Jobs announced they were changing the company name from "Apple Computer Inc." to "Apple Inc.", I knew "my" Apple was dead. Whilst I still use a Mac tower, I quit following Apple. The "Apple Inc" is far richer and famous than the Apple I knew, so from THAT point, no, I have no real idea on their philanthropic endeavors, but prior, there really wasn't.

I don't really care how ignorant you want to think I am, I can go from what I knew to be true in years past; I was around. You missed the original context of the post; there were some people who wrote in to the morning show attacking Apple for being one of if not the richest company now in the US, and having a poor to zero track record for philanthropy. I did not write anything on that subject in my particular email to the show, nor did he even touch on the subject while offering his commentary on mine after reading it on the air. Besides, I have nothing to prove. I use a Mac, and am a loyal customer of RIM too. I would bet my Apple love greatly predates yours, and even if i'm dead wrong, I told you already the Apple I knew died. If they turned around tomorrow and gave a billion dollars to March of Dimes, CMN, or etc, I would be proud but I still wouldn't be defending the iGeneration. If you wish to flame further, go ahead. I'm done with this conversation. All the best.