[MarsupilamiX]

@Marsupilami
You're welcome. Education is nearly completely publicly funded over here in Germany. So I can also give something back to the public. Just keep paying your taxes

@Jerale
Thanks for the TL;DR version. Being somebody who usually skips long posts myself, I appreciate that.

@Chicago777
Keep the niche but reduce the burden of maintaining it by releasing some "BB10 light" for low end devices (what I called "Hub OS"). Even licensing it in order to prevent losing customers to Firefox OS or Ubuntu Phone seems legit to me.

So you're from Germany?
I am from Switzerland

I agree with your last point.
Licencing to local manufacturers is definitely an option.

The problem is, that since Android is basically free, I see them being reluctant to pay for a licence, as that also adds up to the phone's price.

Considering BB10 light...
I am not sold on the idea, but I think that it is extremely creative in a certain way.
It would be like WP 7.8 but better (kind of) for the low-end market.
I hear PlayBook owners saying the same about a BB10 light on the tablets.

I still think that cheaper devices from BlackBerry or licencing to local manufacturers are the better ideas.
But your idea is something new, that has a nice sound to it.


Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

The downward trend in BB market share is due to the overall increase in the smartphone market in China and in cheap smartphones generally. BB does not really participate in China and at the lowest end of the market.

We think of Curves as cheap but actually they are not the cheapest.

BB will never be a big player on a global scale unless they license their software like Microsoft. ( estimated 12% of world market by 2017)

BB is in two markets - the BIS market and the Mid and High end QWERTY phone market. Jury is out on the all touch models,

BB's continuation in the BIS market is mainly to act as a "place holder" while that market matures to be able to purchase more expensive BB10 phones.
I am not sure they can make money with BBOS - the goal is to tread water for a while.

Blackberry can be profitable as a boutique brand - if they can get Bb10 fully functional.

PS. The more I think about the Slider, the more I say why not .

Why can't they make money with BBOS? With the right efficiencies in the manufacturing process introduced (perhaps make them all in one country, not all over the world: Hungary, Mexico, Canada etc) and with the added benefit of service charges I just can't see why they can't make a profit with it. They can keep it to one or two models tops.

[MarsupilamiX]

Why can't they make money with BBOS? With the right efficiencies in the manufacturing process introduced (perhaps make them all in one country, not all over the world: Hungary, Mexico, Canada etc) and with the added benefit of service charges I just can't see why they can't make a profit with it. They can keep it to one or two models tops.

Just begin on page one of this thread again.

I am convinced that you'll understand it one day if you just try to comprehend what you read.

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[MarsupilamiX]

And don't forget to factor in the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

Just begin on page one of this thread again.

I am convinced that you'll understand it one day if you just try to comprehend what you read.

Posted via CB10

One day in not too distant future the new BBOS device will prove you and your arguments (including all your wiki links, for which btw, they should cut you a cheque for all the extra traffic) wrong, very wrong, again.

[MarsupilamiX]

One day in not too distant future the new BBOS device will prove you and your arguments (including all your wiki links, for which btw, they should cut you a cheque for all the extra traffic) wrong, very wrong, again.

I repeat what you proclaimed to be true:

) The new device will be in the mid/high range.
) It will have a significant OS upgrade.
) It will have a significant Hardware upgrade.
) It will come to other markets than emerging ones and the "third world".
) BIS will be supported for at least 4 years to come (even though BlackBerry could burn through their whole cash in 2years easily).
) It will share its innards with the Q5.

Do I really have to tell you that all of these things are completely delusional?
Don't you understand it by now?

When this "new" device will come to the market, we will see who was right.
And it is always funny to see people trashing knowledge that they do not understand (considering the links).

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I repeat what you proclaimed to be true:

) The new device will be in the mid/high range.
) It will have a significant OS upgrade.
) It will have a significant Hardware upgrade.
) It will come to other markets than emerging ones and the "third world".
) BIS will be supported for at least 4 years to come (even though BlackBerry could burn through their whole cash in 2years easily).
) It will share its innards with the Q5.

Do I really have to tell you that all of these things are completely delusional?
Don't you understand it by now?

When this "new" device will come to the market, we will see who was right.
And it is always funny to see people trashing knowledge that they do not understand (considering the links).

Posted via CB10

Please please show me where the hell I ever said it will be mid/high end?

[MarsupilamiX]

Please please show me where the hell I ever said it will be mid/high end?

I clearly remember it when you mentioned the upgraded hardware part.

But I am not willing to go through the whole thread right now to find the exact quote.

If this is the only thing you deny, I can live with that for now.

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[belfastdispatcher]

I clearly remember it when you mentioned the upgraded hardware part.

But I am not willing to go through the whole thread right now to find the exact quote.

If this is the only thing you deny, I can live with that for now.

Posted via CB10

Sorry but I'm not letting this go, if you clearly remember it prove it.

I made it clear that it will be low end and that it has no place in the high end market, maybe you're confusing it with the arguments about the Q5, for which your turned out to be wrong as it's not low end and it's not selling for $200 like you said.

Everything else it's true no matter how delusional you think it is.

[MarsupilamiX]

Sorry but I'm not letting this go, if you clearly remember it prove it.

I made it clear that it will be low end and that it has no place in the high end market, maybe you're confusing it with the arguments about the Q5, for which your turned out to be wrong as it's not low end and it's not selling for $200 like you said.

Everything else it's true no matter how delusional you think it is.

As I said, I will not go through the whole thread right now.

I also never said that the Q5 sells for 200$, and that I can prove instantly. I said that I suspect it to come around 300$ which wasn't that wrong, but it was still more expensive than that.

If the rest is true, will be seen pretty soon apparently, if you speak with that amount of certainty.

Do we have to define what "majorly" upgraded means?
Or that I mostly speak of the CPU/GPU/RAM and not a microphone when talking about the Q5's innards?


BTW, care to show me where I said that the Q5 will cost 200$ at launch?
Here's the quote

If they introduce a "new" OS7 device, this would make sense.
And it is the only way they could sell those devices

You ignore that the price of the Q5 may drop fast enough to satisfy the crowd of people being interested in a Curve though.
The 9230 costs 200$ on Amazon, that is not cheap for what the phone offers.
If the Q5 comes close to 250$ soon enough (I suspect that it will launch in the 300$ realm), then a new BBOS device for 200$ may have just been a waste of time for BlackBerry.

Since the Q5 would be an entry BlackBerry for NA and the EU, a new BBOS device in those markets would be a huge failure on BlackBerry's part.
But you stated that difference between these markets and the emerging ones pretty clearly.

Posted via CB10

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

As I said, I will not go through the whole thread right now.

I also never said that the Q5 sells for 200$, and that I can prove instantly. I said that I suspect it to come around 300$ which wasn't that wrong, but it was still more expensive than that.

If the rest is true, will be seen pretty soon apparently, if you speak with that amount of certainty.

Do we have to define what "majorly" upgraded means?
Or that I mostly speak of the CPU/GPU/RAM and not a microphone when talking about the Q5's innards?


BTW, care to show me where I said that the Q5 will cost 200$ at launch?
Here's the quote





Posted via CB10

Sorry, I meant �200 (your $300 prediction) which was off by �150 roughly which is 50% more then what you predicted, a significant difference not "not that far off"

I still demand you prove where I said it will be mid/high end.

[MarsupilamiX]

Sorry, I meant �200 (your $300 prediction) which was off by �150 roughly which is 50% more then what you predicted, a significant difference not "not that far off"

I still demand you prove where I said it will be mid/high end.

http://www.crackberry.com/blackberry...t-uae-tomorrow

There is the mention of a price of 400$ and 300 Euro.
Since the CB app can't handle the Euro symbol, I mostly use the $ sign for everything money related out of convenience.

I would tell you that I was spot on ( as I was spot on on opening up BBM) since its exactly 300 Euro, through the exchange rate, but if it makes you happy and you insist on the $, we can say that the difference is 1/4th even though I used the expression, " in the realm of 300$", which clearly shows that there is still room for a higher price in $.

Your local currency is none of my concern though and everybody knows, that prices will vary by region.
As was demonstrated the last time through a Curve 9360 from Vodafone India costing 240$.

You can insist on what ever you want, I won't search through the thread right now.
If it happens that everything else you said is true, I'll find you the post.

As it stands now, there is so need for it, as this is one point out of 6.
And there still wasn't an official announcement.

Posted via CB10

[anon(3879737)]

So you're from Germany?
I am from Switzerland

I agree with your last point.
Licencing to local manufacturers is definitely an option.

The problem is, that since Android is basically free, I see them being reluctant to pay for a licence, as that also adds up to the phone's price.

So much price sensitivity from Switzerland? I am really surprised!

However, your point definitely expresses the foundations of BlackBerry's problem in Germany compared to european countries they seem to be doing rather well, i.e., the UK and France. I actually wanted to write something about that for a long time. I was reluctant though because people usually feel offended by too much frankness from outsiders.


So here it comes, my personal theory about the different attitudes of people from Germany, the UK and France, that does not necessarily reflect the general opinion of Germans in any way and thus should only lead to personal insults of me. Not of anybody else possessing the same nationality I do:

Germans are very keen on having good real estate. Houses need to look nice, need to have proper plumbing and the like. There's no compromising when buying or building a house, people rather save their money for a longer time while living in a small flat and then take bigger loans they need to pay back longer in order to afford a minimum standard (which is actually pretty high). Getting a house is a once in your lifetime decision for Germans (just like founding a company is thought to be. Preventing the Silicon Valley spirit of trial and failure over here). That's why you'll find many abandoned houses from the 60s and 70s in the center of German villages. Nobody wants them, you rather build a new one in the peripheral area. The villages buy them to tear them down.
In the UK, many young people buy those rather small houses (imho) a German would never consider to set a foot into to check if it's an possible bargain. Separate taps for freezing cold and boiling hot water? That makes German jaw bones hit the ground after realizing that is wasn't meant as a bad joke. The same applies to the squat toilet you can find in France. The only other place besides France I personally found such a thing was in a shabby metro station in Shanghai. I live pretty close to the border to France. Crossing it means entering in a completely different world. Houses are not as nice anymore, they even appear to still have bullet holes from WWII. You'd never ever find something like that in Germany. Germans live their life in their homes, French are more outgoing.

Enough bashing of others. Let me tell you what's wrong with us Germans. Money does not grow on trees here either so we need to cut back on other stuff. Other stuff, that's expenses for living. What we consider "going out for a nice dinner" rather goes into the direction of "shabby food" for a typical French person. Spending on electronics is something I think of as a living expense people from the UK are fine with. Have a look at the television landscape for example. Pay-TV services like BSkyB or Canal+ seem to work out quite well in their respective home markets. In Germany, you'll never ever make a profit from pay tv. That's why the Germans were the last on earth to switch from analog to digital television signals. May it be terrestrial or via satellite. Nobody wanted to invest €30 in a new receiver as long as the old one still did its job. More tv channels, better quality, ...? Not of interest. Bundesliga broadcast did not prevent the newly established pay tv provider ArenaTV from bankruptcy after just one or two seasons. What's else ... News papers! One of the most notable German newspapers (Frankfurter Rundschau) had to file for bankruptcy recently. So did the second largest German news agency (dapd). Simply because you can get a little bit less content for free. (I'm aware that this is also global problem)

What about telecommunication? Germans are not keen on contracts (anymore) since the subsidies for handsets were dramatically reduced. When Canadian friends visited me, they were astonished what that led to. You can get a pre paid / pay as you go SIM card including unlimited text, unlimited talk and unlimited data (throttled after 300MB per month though) for like €7.99/month. Get a rather cheap mid-range Android, such an SIM from your local grocery store and you're fine. Why get an expensive lower-than-mid-range BlackBerry, be forced into a 2-year contract and pay a €5 premium to get 5MB traffic via the BlackBerry APN? By now there's a one prepaid offer I know of. For €9.99/month it includes unlimited data, unlimited BB APN and unlimited text, however, it excludes talk. To get that you have to add another €10/month. There are only few people like me exchanging free talking for a full QWERTZ keyboard. Even I trade-off by only getting used BlackBerrys from eBay although I could afford a Q10. German politicians demand austerity from the rest of Europe because it works at home.

All in all, the German mentality prevents BlackBerry from getting the same grip on the market as in other European countries. BBOS does not have the weapons to change that and BB10 devices are too expensive. The Q5 will cost more than €300 I guess. That's rather the price point of a GS3 whereas the Q10 is even more expensive than the GS4. Where's the point in paying extra to get your lousy email attachments compressed? You just cannot sell that to customers in times of HSDPA and LTE speeds?

Without getting people locked to the platform by starting to use BlackBerry services (just as Apple did it with its iOS), BlackBerry will not succeed. The high end marked is occupied by Apple, so you need to go after the low end customers that are not decided yet. That's exactly what Firefox OS will do. BBRY cannot do that with BBOS. There needs to be a BB10 light for affordable phones in order to get out of the niche over here. If its worth to waive licensing fees for it just as Google does with Android, is something I cannot answer. I can only tell you that Germans don't want to spend money for the BlackBerry "premium", which results in the same situation as in emerging markets people cannot afford to spend it.

BBM for Android / iOS? That's a start, but BBRY will need more offerings. Let's call it BlackBerry Hub OS

[currentodysseys]

As to the Playbook thing my posture is that I will believe TH until 01/01/2014 comes. If by then there is no BB10 on PB I will express my opinion. Until then I shall not call him a man that does not stand by his word. I think the only logical dates for the PB to start moving will be when the phablet comes out. In my personal estimate I would expect any action regarding within the summer season and max till end of Q3. But that is just me guessing here...

And here comes the moment to express my opinion: Thorstein, you just lost a huge chunk of credibility, period. Nicely done.... this is a really bad "deja vu" of RIM-like behaviour. Obviously you did not stand by your word... Not that the world crumbled but hey, my trust of Hein's statements surely did.

Nicely done... (NOT)....

[Vurhan]

I can't wait to see the new OS7 device. I hope it won't be called Q7, that'll ruin the Q5 outright, though I still say BBOS should remain strictly a Research In Motion device.

This OS7 device should shed even more light on BBRY's understanding of the global game, and whether price or enterprise features or both are what they acknowledge as weaknesses of 10.

[Legal Eagle]

I can't wait to see the new OS7 device. I hope it won't be called Q7, that'll ruin the Q5 outright, though I still say BBOS should remain strictly a Research In Motion device.

I'm hoping that BB will revive the Bold designation and form factor for the new BB7 device

[Vurhan]

I'm hoping that BB will revive the Bold designation and form factor for the new BB7 device

Probably gonna be a Curve of some sort. A new Bold would creep into Q5 or even Q10 sales, or more likely the other way around.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9630 using Tapatalk

[vxhien1986]

I still feel good with my 9900. Yeah, looking for a new change in OS7.5 or 8

[GEO1ER]

NO! Forget BBOS. Work on BlackBerry 10. Too much going on at BlackBerry they don't concentrate on doing a few things right and instead work on too much.

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