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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #76  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    In software development you have an existing platform under which you have to develop. Developers have to maintain the design integrity for the platform for which you are developing. You cannot violate that integrity.

    Within the business model of software development, BlackBerry is the business owner. The developers are contractors to the business owners, they design to the specifics of the business owner. The customers of BlackBerry are the carriers, they sell phones to the carriers who then sell to their customers. The customers of the carriers are the end users.

    You are talking about end user satisfaction when you talk about customer satisfaction. The end user does not direct software development, they would send requirements to the business owner who then puts then in a backlog for development. Feedback from end users should be used by the business owner to determine which backlogged items should be put in development. However, the end user does not direct development directly to the developer or contractor.
    True enough but out of two competing apps I will choose the one with an Off button on the home screen.

    And I'm the kind of customer that buys apps and avoids free ones, I probably spent 50 or more in BlackBerry World already on my Z10 alone.

    When customers demand both the developer and the platform should listen.

    Posted via CB10
  2. #77  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    True enough but out of two competing apps I will choose the one with an Off button on the home screen.

    And I'm the kind of customer that buys apps and avoids free ones, I probably spent 50 or more in BlackBerry World already on my Z10 alone.

    When customers demand both the developer and the platform should listen.

    Posted via CB10
    A developer who does not meet requirements of the business owner will not be able to sell his tool to the business owner and the end user will never have it available.

    If developers are instructed to maintain the integrity of the OS by adhering to the look, feel, and function set of the OS, there is no recourse.

    If that is to be changed then feedback needs to go to the business owner to allow for an alternate function set for their applications. That would lead to fragmentation and lack of uniformity within the OS and the different applications.
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  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #78  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    A developer who does not meet requirements of the business owner will not be able to sell his tool to the business owner and the end user will never have it available.

    If developers are instructed to maintain the integrity of the OS by adhering to the look, feel, and function set of the OS, there is no recourse.

    If that is to be changed then feedback needs to go to the business owner to allow for an alternate function set for their applications. That would lead to fragmentation and lack of uniformity within the OS and the different applications.
    Conforming to uniformity stomps on originality and innovation. I want developers to make awesome original apps, I don't want them all to look and feel the same. Isn't that a current complaint with iOS users getting bored?

    Posted via CB10
  4. #79  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Conforming to uniformity stomps on originality and innovation. I want developers to make awesome original apps, I don't want them all to look and feel the same. Isn't that a current complaint with iOS users getting bored?

    Posted via CB10
    There is a point here that appears to be lost.

    The developers are under contract to BlackBerry. They must develop within the requirements of BlackBerry. The approval to have their apps in BlackBerry World comes from BlackBerry. Originality and innovation that goes outside of that which will be approved by the business owner will not see the light of day.

    You conform to uniformity within an OS. All applications must fit within the requirements of the OS. I'm sure you are not unfamiliar with the concept of compatibility; that is adhering to the OS.

    Maintaining the look and feel is everywhere in branding. You know a Pepsi from a Coke without reading the label, because the look and feel of the product is maintained. In this instance, BB determines what is to be approved for sale at BlackBerry World, not the end user. You want that look and feel changed, or the specifications of the OS, then direct that request to BlackBerry, not to BlackBerry's contracted developers.
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  5. Toodeurep's Avatar
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    #80  

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    I am going to have to look harder because I am yet to find where it says no "close/exit" selection/button allowed.
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  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #81  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodeurep View Post
    I am going to have to look harder because I am yet to find where it says no "close/exit" selection/button allowed.
    Lol, exactly, they make it sound like the developers that choose one are criminals and they'll get banished from the BlackBerry World lol.

    Posted via CB10
  7. #82  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodeurep View Post
    I am going to have to look harder because I am yet to find where it says no "close/exit" selection/button allowed.
    Don't know if you would find that.....you would have to find developers and find the requirements given to them by BlackBerry.

    I do know that from all the videos I've seen, the whole push is towards gestures and away from buttons. The way to close an app has been demostrated as flicking it up. Isn't the whole push "there is no place like home?" It's the whole ethos of the new OS....gestures.

    If a developer is going against the push of the company, he won't have his apps approved.
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  8. #83  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Lol, exactly, they make it sound like the developers that choose one are criminals and they'll get banished from the BlackBerry World lol.

    Posted via CB10

    Bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Can't we have a discussion without the sarcasm?
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  9. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #84  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodeurep View Post
    I am going to have to look harder because I am yet to find where it says no "close/exit" selection/button allowed.
    You're not looking very hard...

    Ui guidelines black_berry_10

    Page 16: "Don't put a Back button (or any other button) on the screen as a way for users to close an app. The only way for users to leave an app is by swiping up from the bottom of the screen."
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  10. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    #85  

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    There seems to be one or two people on here who I believe have not even seen a z10 with their own eyes. Let alone used one. I think the claim wanting an off button is something that can only be denied or concurred with upon using the device. Regardless of what dev guidelines say.
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  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #86  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    You're not looking very hard...

    Ui guidelines black_berry_10

    Page 16: "Don't put a Back button (or any other button) on the screen as a way for users to close an app. The only way for users to leave an app is by swiping up from the bottom of the screen."
    Guidelines not compulsory requirements. Obviously there are apps in BlackBerry World with an OFF button already.

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  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #87  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    Bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Can't we have a discussion without the sarcasm?
    Maybe but putting an OFF button in an app does not get developers kicked out of BlackBerry world, they might have general guidelines but they're not compulsory, developers can make that choice freely at their customer's requests.

    Posted via CB10
  13. #88  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    There seems to be one or two people on here who I believe have not even seen a z10 with their own eyes. Let alone used one. I think the claim wanting an off button is something that can only be denied or concurred with upon using the device. Regardless of what dev guidelines say.

    I have not seen a Z10. But I know about software development, there are universal principles.

    Development guidelines are exactly that, guidelines, given by the business owner which developers must adhere.
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  14. #89  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Maybe but putting an OFF button in an app does not get developers kicked out of BlackBerry world, they might have general guidelines but they're not compulsory, developers can make that choice freely at their customer's requests.

    Posted via CB10
    Never mind. It's impossible. I'm done.
    I tried.

    Bye, BD.
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  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #90  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    I have not seen a Z10. But I know about software development, there are universal principles.

    Development guidelines are exactly that, guidelines, given by the business owner which developers must adhere.
    No they don't have to adhere, some developers clearly didn't and their apps weren't rejected, why can't you see that.

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  16. BlackQtCoder's Avatar
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    #91  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    Bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? Can't we have a discussion without the sarcasm?
    Let it be, qbnkelt ... Your arguments are true and brilliant, but they just do not want to understand software development way of to do things ... don't waste your time.
    Don't worry, BD ... you are right and we, developers working hard around the world, are wrong.
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    #92  

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    Never mind. It's impossible. I'm done.
    I tried.

    Bye, BD.
    Thanks for your effort, but is better let this thread die
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  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #93  

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackQtCoder View Post
    Thanks for your effort, but is better let this thread die
    Nobody's twisting your arm to read this thread, and who are you to say when a thread should or should not be closed? You don't like what you see here move on.

    Do I need to mention again that I requested this feature after seeing it into another app I BOUGHT, I liked the feature and I want it in other apps too

    I did not pull this out of thin air.

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  19. Toodeurep's Avatar
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    #94  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    There seems to be one or two people on here who I believe have not even seen a z10 with their own eyes. Let alone used one. I think the claim wanting an off button is something that can only be denied or concurred with upon using the device. Regardless of what dev guidelines say.
    And I am one of those lacking the opportunity to see one. But, I want to know before I buy and asking those that have one is the best place to start.

    So, I ask these questions.
    Does the phone become an active frame?
    If so, is it one of those that won't close in lieu of others that will?
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  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #95  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodeurep View Post
    And I am one of those lacking the opportunity to see one. But, I want to know before I buy and asking those that have one is the best place to start.

    So, I ask these questions.
    Does the phone become an active frame?
    If so, is it one of those that won't close in lieu of others that will?
    Yes, the phone becomes an active frame.

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  21. Toodeurep's Avatar
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    #96  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Yes, the phone becomes an active frame.

    Posted via CB10
    So I was wondering, if I continue to open apps while on a call I wouldn't want to risk it closing the phones active frame. Conversely, I wouldn't want the phone to stay if I was off the call and going through other apps. So the idea off a "close" button within the phone app itself would be appealing to me. As I mentioned before maybe an extra tap of the "end call" button could do just that.

    Also, under other conditions, a close button in other apps could be appealing as well. So, I agree with you in that sense.

    Obviously I have a lot to learn before and after I get one of these but I am going to sponge off you lucky ones while I wait. .
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  22. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    #97  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Yes, the phone becomes an active frame.

    Posted via CB10
    If you do not have the phone app open and someone calls you, once you hangup I believe the phone app just straight up closes and does not become an active frame. If you have the phone app open and use it, then swipe up it is an active frame.
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    #98  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodeurep View Post
    So I was wondering, if I continue to open apps while on a call I wouldn't want to risk it closing the phones active frame. Conversely, I wouldn't want the phone to stay if I was off the call and going through other apps. So the idea off a "close" button within the phone app itself would be appealing to me. As I mentioned before maybe an extra tap of the "end call" button could do just that.

    Also, under other conditions, a close button in other apps could be appealing as well. So, I agree with you in that sense.

    Obviously I have a lot to learn before and after I get one of these but I am going to sponge off you lucky ones while I wait. .
    Well if you are afraid of accidentally closing out of the phone active frame while on a call shouldn't you be just as afraid of pressing the on screen end button on any other device.
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    #99  

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    It's better then I thought. Just tried it. If you are in a call and close the phone app's active frame the call still continues. You see the elapsed call time underneath the phone icon on the home screen and you can tap it to reopen the call app.
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  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #100  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toodeurep View Post
    So I was wondering, if I continue to open apps while on a call I wouldn't want to risk it closing the phones active frame. Conversely, I wouldn't want the phone to stay if I was off the call and going through other apps. So the idea off a "close" button within the phone app itself would be appealing to me. As I mentioned before maybe an extra tap of the "end call" button could do just that.

    Also, under other conditions, a close button in other apps could be appealing as well. So, I agree with you in that sense.

    Obviously I have a lot to learn before and after I get one of these but I am going to sponge off you lucky ones while I wait. .
    I'd much prefer it didn't stay an active frame, there's no real reason for it unless that's the only way it can multitask while on call.

    I would like to cut all unnecessary steps, even if they're there for the benefit of the uninitiated or the non BlackBerry people.

    Posted via CB10
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