[Soulstream]

Lumia 530 and 630 make big gains, Lumia 535 a hit in India but Windows Phone flagships are scarce | Windows Central

An interesing article from Windows Central. It is clear that WP's market share is mostly comprised of low/mid level phones. I still have no idea why BB thought that going only after the high-end market was a good idea.

[early2bed]

[url=http://www.windowscentral.com/lumia-530-630-gain-lumia-535-hit-india-flagships-scarce]It is clear that WP's market share is mostly comprised of low/mid level phones. I still have no idea why BB thought that going only after the high-end market was a good idea.

Because Microsoft has an ecosystem that will allow them to take losses on smartphones for many years if they can build market share. Blackberry, on the other hand, has no way to benefit from low end phones so they are stuck trying to maintain some kind of exclusivity among enterprise customers. It's not working.

[Kurdis Blough]

Do people really consider Microsoft and BlackBerry new OSs? I used both since 2004.

I wonder if Apple introduced a new version of IOS that was not backward compatible with prior devices, would people continue to buy their products.

Maybe the exodus of users from these platforms is influenced by other factors.

Really is a question I have no clue. In my own experience I migrated away from Windows mobile and BBOS because Android was way more functional.

Just my reaction to the use of the word fledgling in the OP.

!

[thracian]

Do people really consider Microsoft and BlackBerry new OSs? I used both since 2004.

I wonder if Apple introduced a new version of IOS that was not backward compatible with prior devices, would people continue to buy their products.

Maybe the exodus of users from these platforms is influenced by other factors.

Really is a question I have no clue. In my own experience I migrated away from Windows mobile and BBOS because Android was way more functional.

Just my reaction to the use of the word fledgling in the OP.

!

It's a strawman argument a lot of apologists use. When a new version comes out they pretend that means "new OS that needs time to catch up". Both MS and BB have been in the mobile business as long as Apple and Google, but unlike those two, MS and BB scrapped and then revamped rather than updating their OS's.

[southlander]

Further validation that the carriers will logically follow the path of least resistance. Everyone has iPhones. Everyone has Android. Sell one of those and there is a huge installed base of folks to assist with any issue. Kinda like the heyday of Windows on PCs.

Sell a customer a BlackBerry or Windows Phone and I'd say the chances of an unhappy customer with a return are a lot higher.

Someone else said it. The carriers just want to sign folks into contacts with the least amount of friction possible. They really as companies don't care what platforms are "winning" .

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[TGR1]

Lumia 530 and 630 make big gains, Lumia 535 a hit in India but Windows Phone flagships are scarce | Windows Central

An interesing article from Windows Central. It is clear that WP's market share is mostly comprised of low/mid level phones. I still have no idea why BB thought that going only after the high-end market was a good idea.

They have a chance to make a profit at the high end, even if on low volume. Low end, no way. Far too much brutal competition and BBRY is simply not structured to run lean.

Very clearly there is a substantial market for premium devices. The problem is that BBRY hasn't yet devised an effective way of presenting itself as a premium device maker.

[Soulstream]

It's a strawman argument a lot of apologists use. When a new version comes out they pretend that means "new OS that needs time to catch up". Both MS and BB have been in the mobile business as long as Apple and Google, but unlike those two, MS and BB scrapped and then revamped rather than updating their OS's.

Both ios and Android had good bases on which to develop their platform. BBOS had reached its technological peak and had to be rebuilt. Same with Windows Mobile.

[TGR1]

It's a strawman argument a lot of apologists use. When a new version comes out they pretend that means "new OS that needs time to catch up". Both MS and BB have been in the mobile business as long as Apple and Google, but unlike those two, MS and BB scrapped and then revamped rather than updating their OS's.

Much longer, in terms of smartphones. It was their game to lose.

[TGR1]

Further validation that the carriers will logically follow the path of least resistance. Everyone has iPhones. Everyone has Android. Sell one of those and there is a huge installed base of folks to assist with any issue. Kinda like the heyday of Windows on PCs.

Sell a customer a BlackBerry or Windows Phone and I'd say the chances of an unhappy customer with a return are a lot higher.

Someone else said it. The carriers just want to sign folks into contacts with the least amount of friction possible. They really as companies don't care what platforms are "winning" .

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

The carriers hate losing power so a duopoly in which the two are competitive with and can be played off each other is right up the carriers' alley.

People should not forget that RIM was Verizon's first choice to be their champion.

[thracian]

Both ios and Android had good bases on which to develop their platform. BBOS had reached its technological peak and had to be rebuilt. Same with Windows Mobile.

I'm not contesting that, just making a point that they ended up losing the game because of not catching it in time, which leaves the blame on their shoulders.

[southlander]

The carriers hate losing power so a duopoly in which the two are competitive with and can be played off each other is right up the carriers' alley.

People should not forget that RIM was Verizon's first choice to be their champion.

It was said the carriers hated Apple becoming so powerful. Dictating so many units must be sold by contract, etc. Yet Apple seems more powerful than ever. 18 billion flipping dollars profit in 3 months.

Ideally sure they'd like the pie to be sliced up such that they can dictate phone designs, etc. like in their heyday. And also like they are still able to do in some cases (AT&T and the Passport).

But Apple is making everyone play things their way. Money talks --

As for BlackBerry as a "champion" -- they gave Verizon the Storm to counter the iPhone on AT&T.

I think when Windows Phone came out they said what was expected to promote a good relationship with Microsoft. Then over time as things have eroded sales-wise they've acted accordingly. They have "x" customers in the door each day. And "x" amount of service slots to make a sale. That's all that matters.

[early2bed]

People should not forget that RIM was Verizon's first choice to be their champion.

It was forgotten because they chose Palm after that but actually went with Android.

[TGR1]

It was said the carriers hated Apple becoming so powerful. Dictating so many units must be sold by contract, etc. Yet Apple seems more powerful than ever. 18 billion flipping dollars profit in 3 months.

Ideally sure they'd like the pie to be sliced up such that they can dictate phone designs, etc. like in their heyday. And also like they are still able to do in some cases (AT&T and the Passport).

But Apple is making everyone play things their way. Money talks --

As for BlackBerry as a "champion" -- they gave Verizon the Storm to counter the iPhone on AT&T.

I think when Windows Phone came out they said what was expected to promote a good relationship with Microsoft. Then over time as things have eroded sales-wise they've acted accordingly. They have "x" customers in the door each day. And "x" amount of service slots to make a sale. That's all that matters.

I agree with all you said. I meant that RIM had first shot and fumbled it.

And I have zero doubt that as soon as Apple starts showing weakness the carriers will turn on them like rabid sand fleas.

[southlander]

I agree with all you said. I meant that RIM had first shot and fumbled it.

And I have zero doubt that as soon as Apple starts showing weakness the carriers will turn on them like rabid sand fleas.

I wonder if Verizon could ever forgive them for the Storm. Lol. Which as blackberrys go was probably a pretty good seller nonetheless.

Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android

[Kurdis Blough]

Lumia 530 and 630 make big gains, Lumia 535 a hit in India but Windows Phone flagships are scarce | Windows Central

An interesing article from Windows Central. It is clear that WP's market share is mostly comprised of low/mid level phones. I still have no idea why BB thought that going only after the high-end market was a good idea.

I agree that BlackBerry has targeted the high end in pricing, but have only offered low to mid range devices at best.

Passport would be the only BB10 device thus far to truly warrant a high end designation.

[BBPandy]

I would love to see the day when all manufacturers can push out updates without having to worry about the silly carriers

Posted via CB10

[eyesopen1111]

Here in the US, the carriers make flagship phones very affordable, so few care about the low-spec, low end phone market that MS has focussed on. When you go into the stores, most of what you see are flagship devices, so the low-spec bias that has plagued Nokia for oh-so-long still fails to attract large numbers.

Another central problem for Windows Phone is high return rate/low customer satisfaction. Windows Phone is just not very good. Nokia's market share plummeted from 30% globally to 3% currently largely after they converted to Windows Phone. Why would carriers push a phone that customers reject or return?

Plus, Windows Phone actually cheapens the hardware it is sold on, as identically specced phones with Android on them will earn more money, which is why other OEMs have largely abandoned the OS.

[Troy Tiscareno]

I would love to see the day when all manufacturers can push out updates without having to worry about the silly carriers

That will only happen when the carriers are no longer responsible for providing after-sale hardware support. One of the reasons Apple was able to get this hard-won concession is because they have a large network of Apple stores and provide after-sale support to their customers, without involving the carrier.

If Samsung or Microsoft or Google or Motorola or BlackBerry could offer the same service (by spending billions on retail storefronts and having trained techs and inventory to handle customer issues), then they might be able to get the same concessions. Until then, as long as the carrier has to provide support, the carriers are going to insist on having control of OS update rollouts (i.e., AFTER putting those updates through thorough carrier testing, on the carrier's schedule).

[Prem WatsApp]

Here in the US, the carriers make flagship phones very affordable, so few care about the low-spec, low end phone market that MS has focussed on. When you go into the stores, most of what you see are flagship devices, so the low-spec bias that has plagued Nokia for oh-so-long still fails to attract large numbers.

Another central problem for Windows Phone is high return rate/low customer satisfaction. Windows Phone is just not very good. Nokia's market share plummeted from 30% globally to 3% currently largely after they converted to Windows Phone. Why would carriers push a phone that customers reject or return?

Plus, Windows Phone actually cheapens the hardware it is sold on, as identically specced phones with Android on them will earn more money, which is why other OEMs have largely abandoned the OS.

No apps, no good...?

Same dilemma as BB10? :-|



�   Telstra + Classic, Optus + PP, AT&T + PP , Verizon + Classic... why the mix, Mr. Fix?   �

[nbaliga]

I have a Lumia 1520 as a second device and I think MS has figured out a good system: they've broken the OS components into apps so that they can update the apps independent of carrier.

For example, the camera, network etc all show up as apps so they can push updates without pushing a full OS.

I do feel a lot of things lacking with the Lumia, though I like the MSN apps and the large Amoled screen is nice for videos and for reading my kindle books. The device sucks though, as a communications tool!

Posted via CB10

[eyesopen1111]

No apps, no good...?

Same dilemma as BB10? :-|



�   Telstra + Classic, Optus + PP, AT&T + PP , Verizon + Classic... why the mix, Mr. Fix?   �

The app situation is definitely the most important one, but there were other advantages Google and Apple were cooking up while BlackBerry and MS/Nokia were catching up, making the competition even more lopsided. Siri, Google Now, waterproof phones, IR blasters, bigger specs, nicer screens, better speakers, etc., all enhanced the advantages of iOS and Android devices over those of BlackBerry and MS.

Since iOS and Google have huge funds/resources and they never stand still, there is little to no time for challengers to catch up. Since price is not such a big factor due to carrier easy pay plans, the best phone wins. So, unless the customer really wants the USP of the challenger, like a Nokia camera phone or a BlackBerry keyboard, they'll probably go with iOS or Android. And the carriers wouldn't have it any other way, since they'd much prefer this situation to a bunch of returns to process as BlackBerry/MS customers come back because they can't FaceTime/Google Hangout with their friends.