1. mnc76's Avatar
    Carriers sell what makes them money. You build something folks don't want, like or need and guess what? Sales people will not push it.
    They sell what the is hot and sells well.

    Why should they beg folks to but something that is unpopular?

    Folks really need to get real.

    BlackBerry hates America!
    We're not talking about sales staff selling phones here. We're talking about carriers who -- after taking people's money for a device, and getting them to sign a multi-year contract -- decline to provide basic support for the product. Not pushing firmware updates until 5+ months after they were released is near criminal if you ask me. I don't care what the marketshare of the device is. The carrier sold it and took that customer's money knowing full-well what the marketshare was.

    Sure, carrier's will prioritize pushing updates for more popular brands, but -- no firmware updates almost half a year after the update was released? I personally don't see how one could possibly sympathize with the carrier on that.

    But that's just me.
    Last edited by mnc76; 12-12-14 at 10:56 AM.
    raino and Laura Knotek like this.
    12-12-14 10:15 AM
  2. TGR1's Avatar
    We're not talking about sales staff selling phones here. We're talking about carriers who -- after taking people's money for a device, and getting them to sign a multi-year contract -- decline to provide basic support for the product. Not pushing firmware updates until 5+ months after they were released is near criminal if you ask me. I don't care what the marketshare of the device is. The carrier sold it and took that customer's money knowing full-well what the marketshare was.

    Sure, carrier's will prioritize pushing updates for more popular brands, but -- no firmware updates almost half a year after the update was released? I personally don't see how one could possibly sympathize with the carrier on that.

    But that's just me.
    I was so angry when my HTC Desire, at the time the flagship phone, got a single update on Telus ~6m after it was released in Europe and it did little to alleviate the usability issues I was having. Then told no more. I didn't want to have to find and load updates on my own. Soured my experience with Android to this day.
    12-12-14 11:07 AM
  3. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I was so angry when my HTC Desire, at the time the flagship phone, got a single update on Telus ~6m after it was released in Europe and it did little to alleviate the usability issues I was having. Then told no more. I didn't want to have to find and load updates on my own. Soured my experience with Android to this day.
    The ability to chart one's own update path is a reason Android is popular.

    Having said that, users shouldn't have to chase their own updates. Your existence is way too common, IMHO.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-12-14 12:27 PM
  4. TGR1's Avatar
    The ability to chart one's own update path is a reason Android is popular.

    Having said that, users shouldn't have to chase their own updates. Your existence is way too common, IMHO.
    Yes, and that is absolutely fine as another option for those who enjoy doing so. And anyway, HTC was bad about support anyway. Grr.
    12-12-14 03:50 PM
  5. King Dack's Avatar
    I jumped ship from Windowsphone not for the lack of apps, there are plenty, but because it was so buggy. The whole OS felt like a beta even after wp8.1 update. My old man just got a lumia delivered today and straight out of the box it is giving him errors while trying to install apps. I did like my Lumia but I would never recommend it to anyone.

    Posted via CB10
    12-12-14 04:16 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    MS updates are carrier dependant last I checked. You could subscribe (pay) to get developer versions though.

    Posted via CB10

    It is not necessary to pay to get Preview for Developers. It is available free. I've been using it since April 2014, and i am not a developer.
    12-12-14 04:57 PM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    We're not talking about sales staff selling phones here. We're talking about carriers who -- after taking people's money for a device, and getting them to sign a multi-year contract -- decline to provide basic support for the product. Not pushing firmware updates until 5+ months after they were released is near criminal if you ask me. I don't care what the marketshare of the device is. The carrier sold it and took that customer's money knowing full-well what the marketshare was.

    Sure, carrier's will prioritize pushing updates for more popular brands, but -- no firmware updates almost half a year after the update was released? I personally don't see how one could possibly sympathize with the carrier on that.

    But that's just me.

    Have US carriers ever been prompt in providing updates for any OS other than iOS (which only happens because Apple had enough clout to demand it)?

    When I used a BlackBerry 9700, I never ran the official AT&T OS, since it was always several versions behind what other carriers offered at the time.
    12-12-14 05:04 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Have US carriers ever been prompt in providing updates for any OS other than iOS (which only happens because Apple had enough clout to demand it)?
    The answer is "no." Carriers want to do the absolute minimum possible when it comes to OS/firmware upgrades, because every one costs them a lot of money. Every update is going to result in bricked phones (update crashed, or phone rebooted while flashing, or something) which the carrier has to replace on their own dime, and then there will always be angry customers who get upset when a feature is changed or removed as part of the update, and when there are a million of those angry customers, that could mean millions of hours of support time to try to calm them down, and that is huge $'s.

    IMO, if you don't buy your phone outright and unlocked where you can get direct support, you should have the expectation of NO updates at all, and if you ARE lucky enough to get one from your carrier, you should be happy and thankful. The expectation that the carriers want to, or are obligated to keep your device up-to-date is VERY misguided.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-12-14 11:10 PM
  9. mnc76's Avatar
    It is not necessary to pay to get Preview for Developers. It is available free. I've been using it since April 2014, and i am not a developer.
    I'll post this for a second time:

    From the article :

    "The good news for smartphone enthusiasts is that Microsoft figured out a way to push OS updates out independently of carriers, using its Preview for Developers app. If you're willing to color outside the lines, you can get Microsoft to deliver the latest Windows Phone release to you without having to wait.

    The bad news is that carriers control the firmware updates for devices. And without the matching firmware, some of those OS updates don't work properly."


    Posted from my awesome White Z30
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-13-14 02:05 AM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I'll post this for a second time:

    From the article :

    "The good news for smartphone enthusiasts is that Microsoft figured out a way to push OS updates out independently of carriers, using its Preview for Developers app. If you're willing to color outside the lines, you can get Microsoft to deliver the latest Windows Phone release to you without having to wait.

    The bad news is that carriers control the firmware updates for devices. And without the matching firmware, some of those OS updates don't work properly."


    Posted from my awesome White Z30

    That's true. I got the latest firmware update, but I have AT&T, not Verizon.
    12-13-14 02:06 AM
  11. mnc76's Avatar
    The answer is "no." Carriers want to do the absolute minimum possible when it comes to OS/firmware upgrades, because every one costs them a lot of money. Every update is going to result in bricked phones (update crashed, or phone rebooted while flashing, or something) which the carrier has to replace on their own dime, and then there will always be angry customers who get upset when a feature is changed or removed as part of the update, and when there are a million of those angry customers, that could mean millions of hours of support time to try to calm them down, and that is huge $'s.

    IMO, if you don't buy your phone outright and unlocked where you can get direct support, you should have the expectation of NO updates at all, and if you ARE lucky enough to get one from your carrier, you should be happy and thankful. The expectation that the carriers want to, or are obligated to keep your device up-to-date is VERY misguided.
    Really? So you're saying that you should expect to never get an update for your phone, and then praise your carrier for ever pushing any update ever?

    This is exactly the kind of subordinate consumer mentality that results in things being the way they are on American carriers.

    Updating an operating system is not a new phenomenon. This is almost 2015. The idea that operating system upgrades are a gift that you are lucky to get is antiquated in the extreme. The idea of OS upgradeability isn't some new, futuristic, blue sky dream anymore -- nor has it been for at least two decades.

    I live in Canada and am on Rogers (a Canadian carrier). Somehow, they manage to push OS updates almost immediately and they still manage to stay in business and remain profitable.

    I don't know what is going on in the US, but if doing the same thing that Canadian carriers do on a routine basis is so far beyond the technical capabilities of American carriers, then I think America needs to start hiring Canadian software engineers, because -- clearly -- whoever they currently employ have no idea what they're doing.

    Posted from my awesome White Z30
    Last edited by mnc76; 12-13-14 at 03:01 AM.
    12-13-14 02:22 AM
  12. itzJustMeh's Avatar
    It's easy to get WP in Slovenia. All carriers have and advertize them. It's easier to get WP than iPhone. They are becoming quite popular here, slowly replacing Android (which was 80% of smartphones I think).

    One carrier has Passport now (a HUGE surprise), but that's the only carrier with BBs (true it's the biggest)
    12-13-14 10:14 AM
  13. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    I think the big problem for Windows phone is the massive number of people and carrier employees that have been brainwashed into thinking that Samsung makes good products.
    12-13-14 11:08 AM
  14. SteveNoza's Avatar
    Yep, I went from a Q10 to a Lumia Icon, carrier support for updates is bad on both. At least the core functionality of the Icon is good with 8.0/ Black. The Z30 and Icon are similar phones and are full touch flagships that are Verizon exclusives in the US, and both don't seem to get much love from big red.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-13-14 11:24 AM
  15. hoonigan99's Avatar
    No no no no no no no.

    A deal with MS never ends well. I should know, I spent a good bit of time traveling to those partners, with hat in hand, apologizing and acting like the company had a shred of interest in the customer's success. They have a lot of money, and buy their way into markets. But do some digging, talk to their partners. I won't mention names here. Sometimes the management culture of a company gets really sick. They are a marketing company that happens to deal in technology. Of course this is all stuff anyone who has worked in IT/software already knows.
    While you appear to have worked for them, and in an unfortunate capacity, we are still speaking of the business world one where acquisitions and partnerships are becoming more and more normal and expected. While MS may have some severe management issues, they do dominate the computer software industry for OS and productivity apps with Windows and the Office suite, and this is not going to change drastically anytime soon. If this doesn't present the perfect partner for BlackBerry in its quest for Enterprise dependence than nothing does, but any products should be developed with BlackBerry giving the final test/ approval.



    I live in Canada and am on Rogers (a Canadian carrier). Somehow, they manage to push OS updates almost immediately and they still manage to stay in business and remain profitable.


    Posted from my awesome White Z30
    I'm in Canada too and Bell always pushes updates out the day of or day after release too, never had any issues whatsoever.

    It is very strange that in such a competitive market as the US, so many of the carriers seem to fail their customers when it comes to updates. Maybe it's an NSA thing lol

    BB for Life
    Laura Knotek and mnc76 like this.
    12-13-14 11:53 AM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I think the big problem for Windows phone is the massive number of people and carrier employees that have been brainwashed into thinking that Samsung makes good products.


    Samsung actually makes Windows Phones, but they aren't popular like Samsung Androids.



    I'd say the salespersons recommending Samsung Androids is a problem for almost anything other than iPhones. BlackBerry, Lumia, HTC (Android or Windows Phone) tend to be ignored by many salespersons too.
    12-13-14 12:07 PM
  17. TGR1's Avatar
    While you appear to have worked for them, and in an unfortunate capacity, we are still speaking of the business world one where acquisitions and partnerships are becoming more and more normal and expected. While MS may have some severe management issues, they do dominate the computer software industry for OS and productivity apps with Windows and the Office suite, and this is not going to change drastically anytime soon. If this doesn't present the perfect partner for BlackBerry in its quest for Enterprise dependence than nothing does, but any products should be developed with BlackBerry giving the final test/ approval.




    I'm in Canada too and Bell always pushes updates out the day of or day after release too, never had any issues whatsoever.

    It is very strange that in such a competitive market as the US, so many of the carriers seem to fail their customers when it comes to updates. Maybe it's an NSA thing lol

    BB for Life
    I was on Telus in Canada with my HTC. No experience with the other carriers but Telus didn't behave much differently from AT&T or Verizon in my book.
    12-13-14 12:55 PM
  18. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Really? So you're saying that you should expect to never get an update for your phone, and then praise your carrier for ever pushing any update ever?

    This is exactly the kind of subordinate consumer mentality that results in things being the way they are on American carriers.
    I'm merely acknowledging the uniqueness of US carriers (the CDMA carriers in particular), and that they've built their business model around doing as little as possible, because their business model requires the carriers, not the manufacturer of the phone, to provide support if an update causes problems for the consumer.

    I'm not saying that their update process and attitude is a good thing, I'm saying be aware of what it is before you spend your money, and make your purchase decisions accordingly. I recommend GSM carriers and buying phones outright from someone other than the carrier, so that you can bypass the carrier entirely.

    It's going to take either governmental regulation or a massive loss of customers before Verizon in particular changes their attitude. The good news is that the CDMA carriers had to make concessions to allow certain other LTE phones on their networks in order to get the licenses to the spectrum, and once the legacy CDMA system is shut down and it's all LTE, there is a great potential for change that is long overdue.
    12-13-14 04:17 PM
  19. thracian's Avatar
    Carrier's want to sell PLANS, the don't really care about devices or updating those devices.

    So everyone other than Apple has problem getting OS updates out to older devices. I have seen people with 12 - 24 month old Android Devices that are WAY behind what Google is pushing out to newer devices. Main reasons are either the OEM's haven't updated their "custom" versions, or most likely the Carrier's don't deem the updates worth the "trouble" of them pushing them out, as every update cost them support time because of customer problems with the update process or the changes to the OS.

    So when it comes to updates, BlackBerry, Microsoft and Google are all in the same boat - which leaves users with device that may have fixes for performance issue available, but they'll never know about them.
    Actually android has leapt ahead of everyone except Apple now in this regard. Not 100% sure about HTC but I do know that Motorola and Sony have been getting their updates pushed by the carriers within 6-8 weeks of Google releasing them for the last year so far. In many cases even quicker. I know when 4.4.4 came out I had in 4 weeks after Nexus androids did on a year old Sony Xperia. In some rare motorola cases people were getting it in 2 weeks. Samsung continues to be slow but in their case it's Samsung dragging their heels not the carriers.
    mornhavon likes this.
    12-15-14 01:46 PM
  20. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    I'm merely acknowledging the uniqueness of US carriers (the CDMA carriers in particular), and that they've built their business model around doing as little as possible, because their business model requires the carriers, not the manufacturer of the phone, to provide support if an update causes problems for the consumer.

    I'm not saying that their update process and attitude is a good thing, I'm saying be aware of what it is before you spend your money, and make your purchase decisions accordingly. I recommend GSM carriers and buying phones outright from someone other than the carrier, so that you can bypass the carrier entirely.

    It's going to take either governmental regulation or a massive loss of customers before Verizon in particular changes their attitude. The good news is that the CDMA carriers had to make concessions to allow certain other LTE phones on their networks in order to get the licenses to the spectrum, and once the legacy CDMA system is shut down and it's all LTE, there is a great potential for change that is long overdue.
    Super smile here...
    I've liked a T.T. post, because this one totally makes sense...

    :-))))))



    �   Zzzzwipetypetapped from The Maskport - Zzzzmoqin'....   �
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    12-15-14 10:26 PM
  21. birdman_38's Avatar
    Not sure how this thread evolved into delayed software updates for all platforms, but while we're on the topic... I believe Bell still hasn't released the Windows Phone 8.1 update for the Samsung Ativ S yet.
    12-15-14 10:45 PM
  22. Soulstream's Avatar
    Actually android has leapt ahead of everyone except Apple now in this regard. Not 100% sure about HTC but I do know that Motorola and Sony have been getting their updates pushed by the carriers within 6-8 weeks of Google releasing them for the last year so far. In many cases even quicker. I know when 4.4.4 came out I had in 4 weeks after Nexus androids did on a year old Sony Xperia. In some rare motorola cases people were getting it in 2 weeks. Samsung continues to be slow but in their case it's Samsung dragging their heels not the carriers.
    But the problem is that for most people Android = Samsung. And all Samsung faults (super-mega bloatware) are attributed to Android as well.
    Laura Knotek and mornhavon like this.
    12-16-14 05:32 AM
  23. mnc76's Avatar
    I'm merely acknowledging the uniqueness of US carriers (the CDMA carriers in particular), and that they've built their business model around doing as little as possible, because their business model requires the carriers, not the manufacturer of the phone, to provide support if an update causes problems for the consumer.

    I'm not saying that their update process and attitude is a good thing, I'm saying be aware of what it is before you spend your money, and make your purchase decisions accordingly. I recommend GSM carriers and buying phones outright from someone other than the carrier, so that you can bypass the carrier entirely.

    It's going to take either governmental regulation or a massive loss of customers before Verizon in particular changes their attitude. The good news is that the CDMA carriers had to make concessions to allow certain other LTE phones on their networks in order to get the licenses to the spectrum, and once the legacy CDMA system is shut down and it's all LTE, there is a great potential for change that is long overdue.
    Hopefully for US consumers things do change. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing I would assume most people aren't even aware of. They don't even know there are new features and bug fixes out there that they aren't getting. All they may know is that their phone has a glitch that never went away, or is lacking features that their friend's phones may have, and then never return to that brand.

    I agree it's a case of buyer beware, but many people aren't even aware that there is anything they need to beware of. IMO, it doesn't fall into the category of obvious, or common sense caveats.

    Posted from my awesome White Z30
    Laura Knotek and TgeekB like this.
    12-16-14 07:54 AM
  24. raino's Avatar
    In way, it benefits carriers, really, to not be pushing out updates. If I am, say, a Verizon customer in a market where Verizon by a long shot has the best signal, who am I more likely to dump--Verizon, or the OEM? And who am I going to be buying my next phone from? Best case: Verizon gets the handset sale revenue, and monthly payments for service, worst case, I buy my Verizon-branded phone through Best Buy, and Verizon still gets monthly payments for service.

    Now OEMs that have a good reputation, or the customer realizes that it may not be entirely their fault won't lose out if the customer just gets the newer handset that will sustain his/her phone for at least 12-18 months, but it's a risk, and OEMs really have to build brand loyalty for that.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-16-14 11:17 AM
  25. thracian's Avatar
    But the problem is that for most people Android = Samsung. And all Samsung faults (super-mega bloatware) are attributed to Android as well.
    unfortunately true
    01-28-15 09:22 AM
71 123

Similar Threads

  1. BB Assistant; Useful or just frustrating waste of time?
    By Tim Smith2 in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-10-15, 12:45 PM
  2. 1 BlackBerry vs 2 phones
    By Tim Heard in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-13-14, 01:11 PM
  3. Will new Classic be offered by Verizon (CDMA)?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-11-14, 03:40 PM
  4. Didn't we already settle this? "BBRY threatened by AAPL/IBM"
    By Easy-G in forum General BlackBerry News, Discussion & Rumors
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-11-14, 09:46 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD