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  1. TheStoof's Avatar
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    Default Will Blackberry 10 require BIS?

    It's a very important question for those wanting to bail on big-cellular for pay-as-you-go plans or "monthly" plans that don't allow BIS. Here in America, StraightTalk offers AT&T or T-Mobile SIM cards for a penny and charge $45/mo for unlimited data, calling, text. What a deal, right?! Except...I can't use my Blackberry 9900. Well, I can, but I won't get e-mail, BBM, or Facebook. Ouch.

    So will Blackberry 10 require BIS? The Playbook doesn't, and it works just fine . My guess...is yes, otherwise how will it receive pushed messages.
  2. SlcCorrado's Avatar
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    Short answer... Yes. Wifi only PB is an exeption as it doesn't have cellular connectivity
    BB4Life
  3. johnyblaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStoof View Post
    It's a very important question for those wanting to bail on big-cellular for pay-as-you-go plans or "monthly" plans that don't allow BIS. Here in America, StraightTalk offers AT&T or T-Mobile SIM cards for a penny and charge $45/mo for unlimited data, calling, text. What a deal, right?! Except...I can't use my Blackberry 9900. Well, I can, but I won't get e-mail, BBM, or Facebook. Ouch.

    So will Blackberry 10 require BIS? The Playbook doesn't, and it works just fine . My guess...is yes, otherwise how will it receive pushed messages.
    iPhones/Androids and WP8 receive push just fine without any subscriptions, BIS is now more a money making scheme than anything else.
  4. SlcCorrado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyblaze View Post
    iPhones/Androids and WP8 receive push just fine without any subscriptions, BIS is now more a money making scheme than anything else.
    Not true at all. Sync (server polling) and push are not the same. Also, having rims dedicated network is far from a "scheme"
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  5. westcoastit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlcCorrado View Post
    Not true at all. Sync (server polling) and push are not the same. Also, having rims dedicated network is far from a "scheme"
    Exchange ActiveSync is a push solution, it's basically instantaneous. Beats our BES server half the time.

    Gmail supports ActiveSync, I believe Hotmail (Outlook Online now?) does as well, and any corporate infrastructure NOT using EAS is probably still using flip phones instead of modern devices.
    randall2580 likes this.
  6. digitalman101's Avatar
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    I think that not everyone needs BIS services or even cares about BIS.

    If RIM limits wireless data because of their type of service subscription, it will harm their overall sales. I have android, and for my personal data usage, it is fine (e-mail are not for real time communication... right?).

    not an expert, so bare this in mind, RIM could create two type of services:
    * professional - blackberry.net APN access with BIS/BES services
    * casual - normal internet APN access.

    This wold make me happy.
    Thanked by 2:
    chrysaurora (11-27-2012),  Gerii (11-29-2012) 
  7. Mr_Comet's Avatar
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    I use Ubersocial for Twitter and Facebook
    I use LogicMail for email needs.
    I use the above app(s) "NOT made by RIM" over normal 2G data plan. It works well for me. APN is manually set for it to work.
    I use Unlimited BBM Only plan as well.
    All these under Prepaid
    If i can do all these under BBOS6, I dont think it will be very hard for RIM to make BB10 device flexible enough to run on/off BIS/BES depending on user's personal choice.
    Note: Apps made by RIM will need FULL BIS. (Correct me if im wrong but this is how it is for me)
  8. kill_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westcoastit View Post
    Exchange ActiveSync is a push solution, it's basically instantaneous. Beats our BES server half the time.

    Gmail supports ActiveSync, I believe Hotmail (Outlook Online now?) does as well, and any corporate infrastructure NOT using EAS is probably still using flip phones instead of modern devices.
    And the other 50% of the time BlackBerry Enterprise Server mail delivery beats Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync. So your point is moot. From my own experience BlackBerry Enterprise Server mail delivery is practically instantaneous; a 2 second delay is acceptable. As for Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync this will be part of the new BlackBerry Enterprise Server as they phase-out MAPI which is used in the current BlackBerry Enterprise Server 4.x and 5.x series. Also, the new BlackBerry Enterprise Server is supposed to be mail platform agnostic meaning Research In Motion will only have to develop one version of BlackBerry Enterprise Server. If true this means we could see other mail platforms (apart from Microsoft Exchange, Novell GroupWise, and IBM Lotus Notes) being able to integrate with BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Now if only BlackBerry Enterprise Server was built on QNX and virtualized then any reliance upon a third-party operating system and services would be eliminated.
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  9. kill_9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Comet View Post
    I use Unlimited BBM Only plan as well.
    Note: Apps made by RIM will need FULL BIS. (Correct me if im wrong but this is how it is for me)
    BBM requires BIS unless RIM has changed something. The BBM Only data plan does not include email and social networking applications produced by RIM as you noted.
  10. cjcampbell's Avatar
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    #10  

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    Quote Originally Posted by westcoastit View Post
    Exchange ActiveSync is a push solution, it's basically instantaneous. Beats our BES server half the time.

    Gmail supports ActiveSync, I believe Hotmail (Outlook Online now?) does as well, and any corporate infrastructure NOT using EAS is probably still using flip phones instead of modern devices.
    First off, BIS and BES are two different beasts. Second, do you know what the encription is on EAS? If you want to talk corporate security, Below is what I got from Microsoft.....When finished with that, read this..... http://docs.blackberry.com/en/smartp...001-7.1-US.pdf
    ]



    Exchange ActiveSync Server Security

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    There are several security-related tasks you can perform on a server that's running Exchange ActiveSync. One of the most important tasks is to configure an authentication method. Exchange ActiveSync runs on a computer running Exchange 2010 that has the Client Access server role installed. This server role is installed with a default self-signed digital certificate. Although the self-signed certificate is supported for Exchange ActiveSync, it isn't the most secure method of authentication. For additional security, consider deploying a trusted certificate from a third-party commercial certification authority (CA) or a trusted Windows public key infrastructure (PKI) certification authority.
  11. TheStoof's Avatar
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    Some companies offer BBM and FB access free now. Not sure which company does this, but it's an option with one of their Curve bundles. It's a social pay-as-you-go plan, but this doesn't allow browsing.

    The idea is to have a fully-featured BB10 phone with a $45/mo plan. If I can't have that, then I'm forced into AT&T or VZW just for the BB10 phone.
  12. westcoastit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB9700CA View Post
    And the other 50% of the time BlackBerry Enterprise Server mail delivery beats Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync. So your point is moot. From my own experience BlackBerry Enterprise Server mail delivery is practically instantaneous; a 2 second delay is acceptable. As for Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync this will be part of the new BlackBerry Enterprise Server as they phase-out MAPI which is used in the current BlackBerry Enterprise Server 4.x and 5.x series. Also, the new BlackBerry Enterprise Server is supposed to be mail platform agnostic meaning Research In Motion will only have to develop one version of BlackBerry Enterprise Server. If true this means we could see other mail platforms (apart from Microsoft Exchange, Novell GroupWise, and IBM Lotus Notes) being able to integrate with BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Now if only BlackBerry Enterprise Server was built on QNX and virtualized then any reliance upon a third-party operating system and services would be eliminated.
    I have no idea if you're trying to agree with me or disagree with me. EAS is not a sync-by-polling solution. It is using Direct Push. It is as much a push solution as BIS, which is why I responded to the post I did.
  13. joeldf's Avatar
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    #13  

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    And those of us with pop3 email accounts (without an imap option) who refuse to ever fall into the gmail trap, need BIS for those kinds of accounts.
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  14. narci's Avatar
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    #14  

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    Get rid of BIS.

    Try going overseas and find a prepaid Blackberry dataplan.

    I had to carry 2 phone with me in asia.

    1 for phone calls

    My BB for wifi access to BIS.
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  15. aragone79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStoof View Post
    Some companies offer BBM and FB access free now. Not sure which company does this, but it's an option with one of their Curve bundles. It's a social pay-as-you-go plan, but this doesn't allow browsing.

    The idea is to have a fully-featured BB10 phone with a $45/mo plan. If I can't have that, then I'm forced into AT&T or VZW just for the BB10 phone.
    You can get it if you live at Indonesia. In my country, we have so many BIS data plan that you can choose based on what you need from 7 carriers (2 CDMA, 4 GSM, 1 CDMA+GSM (Indosat)).

    for premium BIS (all you can get (connection over mobile and wifi network) + internet unlimited) takes cost USD 12 - 20 per month
    for BIS Full (connection over mobile + wifi) takes cost USD 10 - 13 per month
    for BIS business (email + BBM (browser exclude from apn blackberry.net); connection over mobile only) takes cost USD 6-8 per month
    for BIS Social (BBM+social media (browser include in blackberry.net apn); connection over mobile only) takes cost USD 6-8 per month

    For BES, takes cost USD 18 - USD 30 per month

    those are for data plan only (cost number is approximately). You need to provide the blackberry handset by yourself. There is no carrier provides blackberry data plan with bb handset.
    sent from anywhere
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  16. Andrio Mark's Avatar
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    I'm in Sweden and our operators don't support BIS and don't offer BB Devices on consumer level. But still there are many who uses BB Devices and want to have push and other internet connectivity to work without BIS.

    Will it be the same issue with BB10 ? or will it be more open as Android & iOS?
  17. Cyba.Cowboy's Avatar
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    #17  

    Default Will Blackberry 10 require BIS?

    As I understand it, BlackBerry 10 is expected to connect via either a BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) or BlackBerry Internet Solution (BIS), as is the case with current BlackBerry devices... Of course, like current BlackBerry smartphones, one should also be able to connect to some data services via their service provider's APN (Internet access point).

    It comes down to how the BlackBerry systems work "behind the scenes" and unless Research in Motion (RIM) completely overhaul the BES/BIS - which at this stage doesn't look likely - then data connectivity will remain the same...

    January 30th will reveal all, but I wouldn't hold your breath for an alternative to the BES/BIS being announced.

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  18. johnyblaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlcCorrado View Post
    Not true at all. Sync (server polling) and push are not the same. Also, having rims dedicated network is far from a "scheme"
    Android, iPhone & WP8 both have true push support through various protocols ActiveSync, GoogleSync, Yahoo Push so the notion that BIS would be required to get push is not true, Even if it was the case, they could simply fall back on polling when you don't have a subscription, RIM wants to keep people on BIS because it means recurring monthly revenues. For me personally this would be a deal breaker, I want my apps and mail to work as long as I have a data connection of any sort.
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  19. lnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyblaze View Post
    Android, iPhone & WP8 both have true push support through various protocols ActiveSync, GoogleSync, Yahoo Push so the notion that BIS would be required to get push is not true, Even if it was the case, they could simply fall back on polling when you don't have a subscription, RIM wants to keep people on BIS because it means recurring monthly revenues. For me personally this would be a deal breaker, I want my apps and mail to work as long as I have a data connection of any sort.
    Based on everything that has been put out by RIM on the role of the NOC and BB10, a Blackberry Data Plan will be required BB10, but the NOC will not function identically to the way it did for BBOS. The NOC will help setup e-mail accounts on the device quickly (eliminating the need for users to put in info like SMTP server, etc.), but the device will support EAS and not need the NOC to send/receive e-mail. The NOC will still be needed for BBM, App World, BB apps like Travel and Maps, but not for web browsing. RIM has a patent to allow the NOC to be used in low bandwidth/poor coverage areas/roaming for compression on various services, but not be used when bandwidth is plentiful (HSPA+/LTE). Personally I want the NOC there when I travel internationally so I can turn on my $20 plan to get all the e-mail, and BBM I need while overseas without having to mess with SIM's, temp phone numbers etc.
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  20. joeldf's Avatar
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    #20  

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    ^ But, BIS will be needed for things like pop3 email accounts, which EAS can't do.
  21. Xopher's Avatar
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    #21  

    Default Re: Will Blackberry 10 require BIS?

    RuneCryption - Unique memory game for PlayBook & BB10, now "Built for BlackBerry".
  22. Saiga's Avatar
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    This is a deal breaker for me as well. I'm sick of the BIS requirement. It cripples the device if you are not actively paying for service and no other devices force you to do that.

    Recently, I keep seeing people freaking out over BBM Voice and I just can't help but wonder where these people have been the last few years. I currently have a WiFi only, Nexus 4. No service on it at all. It doesn't even have a SIM card in it. Yet I still have email, I can still use Twitter, Facebook, and any instant messaging apps available on Android. And if all of that isn't cool enough- I have unlimited voice calling, unlimited text messaging and I even get voicemail. My Nexus 4 is my home phone. Lol how cool is BBM Voice now? Especially when you consider that once you stop paying for BIS you lose BBM. A BlackBerry without service is a paperweight. Other devices without service can still function very well.

    What BlackBerry offers isn't worth the BIS/BES requirement any more. I can get a prepaid T-Mobile plan with unlimited data and then my Nexus 4 would become a full featured smartphone with unlimited everything for only $30 a month. I want to be able to do that with a BB10 phone, but RIM won't allow it. They gotta keep milking us to have a chance of surviving I guess.
    hduty and digitalman101 like this.
  23. lnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeldf View Post
    ^ But, BIS will be needed for things like pop3 email accounts, which EAS can't do.
    I believe the Playbook also supports IMAP and POP3 natively too. However BIS would keep the phone/tablet from having to check the POP3 account every 15 minutes.
  24. Xopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Blackberry 10 require BIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saiga View Post
    What BlackBerry offers isn't worth the BIS/BES requirement any more. I can get a prepaid T-Mobile plan with unlimited data and then my Nexus 4 would become a full featured smartphone with unlimited everything for only $30 a month. I want to be able to do that with a BB10 phone, but RIM won't allow it. They gotta keep milking us to have a chance of surviving I guess.
    If I remember correctly, T-Mobile has added BBM to their texting plan. So, if you don't need the rest of the BIS features, you can still use BBM. There should be plenty of apps to give access over WiFi - not sure if wireless data will be available without BIS, though.
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  25. Saiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xopher View Post
    If I remember correctly, T-Mobile has added BBM to their texting plan. So, if you don't need the rest of the BIS features, you can still use BBM. There should be plenty of apps to give access over WiFi - not sure if wireless data will be available without BIS, though.
    My OS6 BB devices can't do much of anything once BIS is gone. They have no email, no app world, no twitter, no Facebook or YIM or gtalk. Basically, you can browser the internet and that's about it. I don't know if that has changed with os 7 or will change with BB10, but it needs too.

    BBM is now the least of my worries, I have my 1 contact left. Lol so for me personally, I just would like for the email and apps to work without BIS. Sounds like that isn't possible with T-Mobile prepaid since all they are giving you is access to bbm.

    Bottom line, its bull that RIM is still doing this. No other deactivated smartphone has these restrictions. A used, deactivated, iPhone = a great iPod. You can give your kid your old iPhone and he can get use out of it without a monthly fee. RIM needs to give BB10 that ability also.
    hduty likes this.
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