[gigihoechlin]

Ok so I currently have a torch! Absolutely looove the keyboard and the slider form factor and would love another one! But they should just use the L-series phone and attach a keyboard onto the back! I would love that! But yknow what would be a dream come true?! Would be a horizontal slider!!! I would pay any amount of money for a blackberry 10 horizontal slider with the screen of an L-series! Kind of related to the umm captivate hglide I think it was called! That would completely make my life like with 4g lte like the L-series will have right?? And the great screen it comes with and the amazing camera its gonna have! And omg my life would be made!

[Skeevecr]

Which is the reason I said "If Rim actually manufactured", since I am well aware that it was not a RIM design and I'm well aware that concepts and prototypes are ideas to launch from and not actualised products.
I liked the design, therefore I mentioned it.

Unfortunately, far too many people like to overlook the technical impossibilities of the tk concept designs and then whine at rim when they release something that is actually possible, so I tend to point it out when somebody mentions them since otherwise others in the threads take them as actual designs.

[sleepngbear]

Ok so I currently have a torch! Absolutely looove the keyboard and the slider form factor and would love another one! But they should just use the L-series phone and attach a keyboard onto the back! I would love that! But yknow what would be a dream come true?! Would be a horizontal slider!!! I would pay any amount of money for a blackberry 10 horizontal slider with the screen of an L-series! Kind of related to the umm captivate hglide I think it was called! That would completely make my life like with 4g lte like the L-series will have right?? And the great screen it comes with and the amazing camera its gonna have! And omg my life would be made!

Sooooooo refreshing to know I'm not the only fruitcake who would kill for a landscape slider BB. It's just a natural layout for me. As long as it has the same 4.2" screen, I don't really care how thick it would be (within reason, of course). That would be my absolutely ideal phone.

[RubberChicken76]

From what I've heard the 9800 and 9810 were not really sales successes for RIM (though I see a ton of them around).

The first Torch sold well. I remember a video with Andrew Bocking from RIM where he talked about the "millions and millions of Torch users around the world". I see them all the time too. The second one and the full touch screen, not so much.

I didn't mind the slider myself but preferred the 9900. It seemed like the 9810 was completely overwhelmed by the 9900 when that came out. If you wanted a "high end BlackBerry" and had a choice between the two, people went for the 9900.

[sleepngbear]

The first Torch sold well. I remember a video with Andrew Bocking from RIM where he talked about the "millions and millions of Torch users around the world". I see them all the time too. The second one and the full touch screen, not so much.

I didn't mind the slider myself but preferred the 9900. It seemed like the 9810 was completely overwhelmed by the 9900 when that came out. If you wanted a "high end BlackBerry" and had a choice between the two, people went for the 9900.

I'm one of those people. I loved the 9800 and 9810 when I had them, right up until I got my hands on the 9900. If they could make a slider with the specs of the L and a keyboard as comfy to type on as the 9900, I'd probably be all over it.

[Snowman888]

I physically like sliding the screen up and down and getting that clicking noise... but if the virtual keyboard is as good as advertised I think the need for a slider is obsolete. I can see a greater need for a trackpad than the slider form factor. Of course some love the feel of a Qwerty keyboard but they have that addressed already. Maybe just make the Qwerty version have a taller screen?

[Tommy-boy]

Neither the 9800 nor the 9810 exactly burned up the sales charts.

...because they were being sold on crappy networks. I would not use AT&T or T-Mo for any amount of money. Verizon or nothing.

If Verizon had a slider, I would have bought one. The whole theory of limiting sliders to select networks was crazy, especially with AT&T - which had gotten into bed with Apple to be the sole distributor of iPhones for awhile. I understand that there were reasons for doing this, and I think they are garbage reasons in the grand scheme of RIM's strategy.

Just my 2 cents.

-Tom

[Claidheamhmor]

Again, sliders are more expensive to design, harder to produce, and have a multitude of things that can go wrong. A slider version of the L-series would likely have to carry a 40% premium over the full-touch version to make it worth RIM'S while.

And the new software keyboard is honestly so good that it will win over many potential slider users. Really.

I would love a slider; I have a 9810 (which sell very well here), and like the big screen/physical keyboard combo. One of my major reasons are the shortcuts: pressing a for address book, m for mail, u for calc, etc., and the speed dial. If on the fullscreen BB10 device I can sweep the keyboard up and use those shortcuts, I'd be very happy.

[Tim-ANC]

The portrait slide on the 98's is my favorite style too. I use it outdoors and in the cold too. The mapping and GPS tools are awesome for 4-wheeling.

I've had my 9800 tore down all the way to change a cracked screen. The mechanism is complicated but it is an awesome and durable design. I can wait for RIM to perfect the next gen.

In the mean time I'll get the L (or Z) when they first hit the market. I just want a BB10 ASAP. Maybe I'll convert to the touch screen.

[SparkyBC]

Sliders are dead this day and age. They should be kept in the cheap pay as you go market only. They are prone to failure,

[Tim-ANC]

Maybe other makes are prone to failure. Not the 98's. I've put mine through a lot of abuse. Slider works good as new.

[Valzic]

I have 3 9800 in the house and have had no problems.

I find that amazing that the L-series is so good that it makes a slider obsolete but somehow does not obsolete the N-series.

Blackberry is noted for the Keyboards. It would be a BIG mistake on Blackbarry to abandon the slider market to others. I fully beleive they are doing the 2 easy phones first and a slider will be a followup phone. I too will be in the market for 3 new phones in October 2013, and I pray it won't have to be an android.

[Tim-ANC]

I fully beleive they are doing the 2 easy phones first and a slider will be a followup phone.

I bet you're right. I'm getting the first available because my upgrade is due next month and I want to support RIM. If the L is as great as we expect, I should be able to sell it easily when the sliders come out.

[Skeevecr]

I have 3 9800 in the house and have had no problems.

I find that amazing that the L-series is so good that it makes a slider obsolete but somehow does not obsolete the N-series.

Blackberry is noted for the Keyboards. It would be a BIG mistake on Blackbarry to abandon the slider market to others. I fully beleive they are doing the 2 easy phones first and a slider will be a followup phone. I too will be in the market for 3 new phones in October 2013, and I pray it won't have to be an android.

It is not that the l-series obsoletes the slider form factor so much as it minimises some of the benefits to a slider with the great vkb, reducing the size of the niche that will want a slider. The n-series serves a more popular niche by far than a slider so that is why they are still doing one of those, but even then it is going to show up after the l-series.

Leaving the slider market to others, obvious questions to that point would be what others and what market.

I think you will be disappointed as the follow up to the first wave of bb10 devices will almost certainly be lower cost models due to there being a market for them.

[BBThemes]

It would be a BIG mistake on Blackbarry to abandon the slider market to others.

pray tell, who are these `others`? i havent seen ANY `big name` devices launch as sliders lately. the market has moved on, much like flip is done and dusted, slider is heading that direction too.

[Valzic]

I am sure most of the competition has said the market has moved on from the QWERTY keyboard period.

I myself don't speak for the market like yourself. I know tons of people tha decided on the slider as opposed to the standard keyboard Blackberry or full screen phone. I guess Blackberry would know the sales of the slider and only they can take the risk of making a new one or abandoning the slider. Blackberry has decided that this keyboard niche would continue to differentiate themselves from the competion. I am sure many here agree that the physical keyboard is a good thing, while the argument here is whether having a half screen is adequate with a physical keyboard.

It seems to me that Blackberry would be smart to do another while they prove to world that they knoiw how to do a full screen phone properly. That's my opinion.

[Valzic]

OMG

We discussing what is old and what is new? How QWERTY is fine on 9900 and N-Series and how great Thumb typing is on L-series.

From Wired:

Data Entry
WIRED Dictation

Are you still typing text messages and manually entering calendar items? That's for squares. iPhone users have been able to dictate text messages ever since the arrival of Siri, so if you've got a 4S or a 5 and you aren't constantly pressing that little microphone button below the keyboard, you're totally missing out. Also, Android's dictation engine has gotten alarmingly good with the arrival of Jelly Bean. It even works offline. If you don't have one of these devices, you can still speak your sandwich order by downloading a good dictation app -- Voice Dictation is the best for iOS, and Text by Voice is a good one for Android.

TIRED Thumb Typing

Please tell me you're at least using Swype.

EXPIRED Physical QWERTY

Why do manufacturers continue to make smartphones with physical keyboards? I refuse to believe real people actually buy them. I bet it's all just fleet purchases by midwestern firms that do IT for dentists offices or something. The phones are ugly and laughably huge, the sliding mechanisms are cumbersome, and the typing experience is almost always slower than a touchscreen. QWERTYs are so dorky, each phone should come with a free belt-clip holster and a pair of pleated khakis.

They making fun of the Blackberry community. I'd like to see how they dictate that text message during a meeting. Or are we heading to world where people walk around street talking to phones?

The rest of the article:

Wired, Tired, Expired for 2012: From Stellar to Suck | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

[CJMajesty]

OMG

We discussing what is old and what is new? How QWERTY is fine on 9900 and N-Series and how great Thumb typing is on L-series.


They making fun of the Blackberry community. I'd like to see how they dictate that text message during a meeting. Or are we heading to world where people walk around street talking to phones?

The rest of the article:

Wired, Tired, Expired for 2012: From Stellar to Suck | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

The screen on the n series is too small. The only reason I left my 9810 is because it was too slow. Other than that it was great. I had no problem with the slider, no problem with the keyboard. & The screen was bigger than the bold.
I traded up to the GS3, because it was LTE, faster processor, a big screen and it wasn't an i phone.

What I regret the most is that there is no physical keyboard, and contrary to popular opinon this galaxy s3 locks up and freezes sometimes too, so the back button goes dark, and becomes non responsive. (Very frustrating). I dont text nearly as much as I used too. Voice to text is only useful in the car. (Picture being in a crowded room and voice texting "check out the juggs on that chick in the red shirt"), and everything on this phone is an app. Its like it does nothing for itself. Even after I set the default..it stil asks me what app I want to use to text. The only thing that makes this phone tolerable is the Swype keyboard. But I still miss my Torch 9800 and 9810 keyboard.

All that being said, Im seriously considering going back to Blackberry, after 4 months with this droid. But if the L- another touch screen, and the N- small screen are the only two phones they have...I'm staying where I am. They need a large screen phone with a keyboard and the only way to do that is with a slider.
I have a otterbox defender case on my GS3... I obviously dont care how bloody thick the phone is.

[just_luc]

... Neither the 9800 nor the 9810 exactly burned up the sales charts.

From what I've heard the 9800 and 9810 were not really sales successes for RIM (though I see a ton of them around)...

Think a little further then the end of a spreadsheet guys..

The torch design was one of RIM's BEST SELLING among CONSUMERS.. second only to the curve with sold cheap and sold for YEARS.. the reason it's numbers don't add up to the bold line is simply and ONLY because it wasn't highly distributed in the enterprise segment.

[Skeevecr]

The torch design was one of RIM's BEST SELLING among CONSUMERS.. second only to the curve with sold cheap and sold for YEARS.. the reason it's numbers don't add up to the bold line is simply and ONLY because it wasn't highly distributed in the enterprise segment.

Firstly, I think you are falling into the trap of thinking that blackberry sales were heavily biased towards the enterprise segment, that has not been true for a long time and since that is the case, the idea that the Torch outsold a bold is laughable unless you were trying to compare something like sales of the 9810 in the USA vs sales of the 9790 that obviously had a bit of a drawback in that respect by not being sold over there.

While there are no doubt plenty of people who prefer the compromises of a slider over the more dedicated options of a bold or an all-touch, the overall market for qwerty models is not that great and a slider accounts for far less of that niche than bold or curve qwertys.

[Blacklatino]

It would be nice to see a Slider model. LOL. The 9800 should have had the 9810 specs and not just another refresh. Nothing that hasn't been posted before. I purchased both, enjoyed them.....and I was actually one that was waiting for the 9900......even when the concept was under different name(s) a few years prior to the release. The lackluster(or not) sales were for various reasons - including the OS7 devices being called "stop-gap" until the QNX/BB10 devices are to be sold. Then, having to try and continue selling them after the extended release date(s).

[just_luc]

Firstly, I think you are falling into the trap of thinking that blackberry sales were heavily biased towards the enterprise segment, that has not been true for a long time and since that is the case, the idea that the Torch outsold a bold is laughable..

Never said sales were heavily biased towards enterprise.. however enterprise sales do sku the stats. I'm just wildly making up numbers here.. but lets say enterprises accounted for only 10% of total sales (it's actually way more then that) and consumer sales accounted for 90%, and of that 90% half preferred the torch.. an even 50/50 split.. but the enterprise market was 100% full qwerty.. that small 10% now sku'd sales that were 50/50 split to a 45/55.

Again i'm in no way saying the slider form factor accounts for 50% or even 45% of rims sales, far from i'm sure.. i'm just illustrating that it's percentage of sales on paper is substantially reduced from it's true relevance in the consumer market place, which is really the only market it was intended for.

[Thunderbuck]

Thicker. Heavier. More expensive. Inherently less reliable, and inherently more prone to damage from drops. And from RIM's point of view a nightmare to support. They're a pain. Tear down a 9900, then tear down a 9800/9810 and you'll completely understand why.

Yeah, the geek in me thinks sliders are kind of cool, and, yes, I like the physical feel of opening and closing a well-designed one, but seriously, they introduce so many compromises they become really hard to justify. POSSIBLY in some kind of Vertu-esque special edition where it's a status symbol and a watchmaker could engineer something interesting.

And, seriously, the new soft keyboard is that good. I won't pretend it will win over ALL slider fans, but it will convert enough that it will just marginalize the market that much more.

[lorax1284]

My point was that enough users would have to want it--and be prepared to pay a premium of as much as 30-40%--to make it worth RIM's while to produce. And, I don't know, maybe there ARE that many users, who knows? But personally, I'm skeptical. Neither the 9800 nor the 9810 exactly burned up the sales charts.

I would be prepared to pay a premium for a portrait slider with a 1280 x 720 screen. I expect that would mean the subsidized price of a slider might be $50 more than a non-slider. I'd opt-in for that.

I see more 98xx's in the "wild" (of the downtown Toronto subway system) than I see 9900s.

[Mecca EL]

You can't blind text, with a virtual keyboard. Sliders don't lose screen real estate. It being "bulky"...from a guy...really?? The 98xx model is as thick as an OS5/6 Curve. The 9810 has the exact same hardware as the 9900, minus NFC, plus auto focus camera/video, plus virtual kb, plus larger screen...plus the cool CLIK when you open it, plus slider lock...I can keep going.

The opinion that a slider is "old" or outdated is as baseless as a virtual steering wheel, in a car.

You don't have to like the Torch design, formerly known as the Bold 98xx. But the fact remains that you can not communicate or text faster, with less error, than you can on a physical kb. And there is no BB model device that attracts more attention than the 98xx series. Chicks dig the clik. I feel like Wolverine when I pull it out.