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  1. TheBlackberryUser33's Avatar
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    Default Why we need a BlackBerry 10 slider

    I love the Torch 9810 and slider form. I want a slider to get the best of BlackBerry 10 touchscreen (larger screen size, 16:9 or similar screen) without giving up the keyboard. Petty concerns such as weight and thickness are not issues to me. Please make me a heavy duty, fast, powerful BlackBerry 10 slider RIM!
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  2. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    No. Sliders are a serious pain in the .

    As products go, sliders are very high maintenance devices. They require way more engineering and testing work in development, and have exponentially more issues for customer service and warranty to deal with. A 9810 probably has triple the number of parts that a 9900 has, and a zillion more things that can go wrong. Not worth it.
  3. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    No. Sliders are a serious pain in the .

    As products go, sliders are very high maintenance devices. They require way more engineering and testing work in development, and have exponentially more issues for customer service and warranty to deal with. A 9810 probably has triple the number of parts that a 9900 has, and a zillion more things that can go wrong. Not worth it.
    But users want it! And RIM should manufacture the device in form factors that are in high demand! The original Torch didn't do as well as Bold 9900 because well it was still using BB OS 6/7. So, a little bit extra screen space wasn't worth sacrificing always-available keyboard (without having to slide anything). But with new BB 10 os, the more screen the better. But they can't make the screen so big that it wont fit in a pocket. So, slider seems like an attractive form factor.

    Of course, this is just my opinion. I am sure they are probably already doing market surveys/research to figure out which form factors would work best for them and the customers.
    Last edited by chrysaurora; 12-20-2012 at 10:00 AM.
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    Yes I agree! Slider would be seriously considered the best of both. However, I WOULD be able to settle IF RIM decides to make the N-series 3:4 Aspect Ratio rather than the 1:1. This 3:4 Ratio would be the same as the Ipad and other smart phones, Similar to the size of paper and old nonHD TV screens. Since the N-series is so much shorter than the L-series, Why not make them both the same height and use 3:4 as the other popular screen size?
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  5. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfx_will View Post
    Since the N-series is so much shorter than the L-series, Why not make them both the same height and use 3:4 as the other popular screen size?
    Good suggestion.
    ***
    Dear BlackBerry,
    1. Fix Contacts App (at the bare minimum: create 2 options - clear all links and disable auto-linking of contacts)
    2. In your advertisement/commercials, please advertise "Android Player" as one of the features (you could show/print Android logo and advertise limited compatibility)
    3. Support Google Play / Google APIs in Android Player so Google Now, Maps, Hangouts/Voice work flawlessly or convince Google to develop NATIVE apps for BB10.
  6. Taigatrommel's Avatar
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    IMO a slider for BB10 makes much more sense than a slider for OS6 or OS7. BB10 was designed for pure touch devices, we can't argue with that. So with a slider we can have an actual screensize of 3.5" to 4.0" - so much better than a classic "always there" QWERTY device which most likely won't get more than 3.0" or maybe 3.1" of display size. In the same time, we still have the good physical keyboard.

    Just take a look at the Dell Venue Pro (one of the first WP7 launch phones). It is a slider which not only has a big screen, but it also looks rather sleek in terms of design. The keyboard wasn't that good IMO, but if RIM produces it, I guess there would be a decent keyboard.
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  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfx_will View Post
    Yes I agree! Slider would be seriously considered the best of both. However, I WOULD be able to settle IF RIM decides to make the N-series 3:4 Aspect Ratio rather than the 1:1. This 3:4 Ratio would be the same as the Ipad and other smart phones, Similar to the size of paper and old nonHD TV screens. Since the N-series is so much shorter than the L-series, Why not make them both the same height and use 3:4 as the other popular screen size?
    My theory about the N-series screen aspect is that the bottom of the screen will usually be occupied by dedicated controls that will mimic the hard buttons on the current keyboard phones (minus the trackpad, though that COULD be duplicated as well). The remaining space would mimic the L-series aspect ratio in landscape...
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    But users want it! And RIM should manufacture the device in the form factors that are in high demand! The original Torch didn't do as well as Bold 9900 because well it was still using BB OS 6/7. So, a little bit extra screen space wasn't worth sacrificing always-available keyboard (without having to slide anything). But with new BB 10 os, the more screen the better. But they can't make the screen so big that it wont fit in a pocket. So, slider seems like an attractive form factor.

    Of course, this is just my opinion. I am sure they are probably already doing market surveys/research to figure out which form factors would work best for them and the customers.
    My point was that enough users would have to want it--and be prepared to pay a premium of as much as 30-40%--to make it worth RIM's while to produce. And, I don't know, maybe there ARE that many users, who knows? But personally, I'm skeptical. Neither the 9800 nor the 9810 exactly burned up the sales charts.
  9. TheBlackberryUser33's Avatar
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    I would pay a premium. Sliders are great. The ability to have a keyboard ready to slide out and use is not to be underestimated. But getting that while at the same time having a large screen (it doesn't have to be a big 4.5 inch screen, 4 would be fine) at the same time is a great combination. Thats why I chose the Torch 9810 over the Bold 9900. I wanted the larger screen size but still the keyboard. While I will be getting BlackBerry 10 regardless, I am prepared to wait and purchase a slider when it comes out. I only hope RIM doesn't withhold a few features from it in the way the Torch 9810 has no NFC or glowing optical trackpad. I want a powerful, fully capable slider. Maybe RIM can make it in the fall of 2013, when they can experiment (because of the larger weight of a slider, which I don't mind and even like; a solid feel is good) with quad core CPUs and 1080p screens? or am I just dreaming there?
  10. ibpluto's Avatar
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    I like my Torch 9810, but I'm not sure I would go back to a slider even if they had one. If I had to rewind back to when I got the Torch, I think I would have gotten the 9900. The Torch Keyboard is not as nice to use (not as nice to thumb about) as the Bolds, so one can ponder that the new touch screen will be as efficient as the current torch to use anyway.

    I think RIM needs to focus on a couple core products and just get them perfect (L and N). If they have too many devices, they just revert back to the "old RIM".

    just my $0.02
  11. lnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    But users want it! And RIM should manufacture the device in the form factors that are in high demand! The original Torch didn't do as well as Bold 9900 because well it was still using BB OS 6/7. So, a little bit extra screen space wasn't worth sacrificing always-available keyboard (without having to slide anything). But with new BB 10 os, the more screen the better. But they can't make the screen so big that it wont fit in a pocket. So, slider seems like an attractive form factor.

    Of course, this is just my opinion. I am sure they are probably already doing market surveys/research to figure out which form factors would work best for them and the customers.
    There was a Torch2 (9810) that had same OS, processor, and everything as the Bold 9900 and didn't sell too hot. T-Mobile sold it for all of 5 weeks before discontinuing. It was much thicker device (but did have an auto-focus camera). Slider designs have many more failure points than slabs or Bold-like designs. RIM is targeting the huge all touch market with the L, and catering to the largest current BlackBerry base with the N. They are trying to make the typing experience on the L so good that they get people to abandon the QWERTY IMHO, which will further consolidate the product offering. Also with the way that the BB10 UI works with the gestures from just above the keyboard, it would be an awkward experience to reach from the lower, recessed keyboard to the upper screen. RIM probably is considering it to niche at this point in their product line to invest a huge effort in it. Maybe if BB10 does great they will explore it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    ...if BB10 does great they will explore it.
    This is what I am hoping for. My expectations are low in regards to getting a BB10 slider in 2013. I feel like I sacrafice the least with the 9810 and hope to see a similar device by BB in OS10.
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  13. rgorman's Avatar
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    I like the slider... mostly because of my banana fingers hatred of screen keyboards. Even in Landscape on my 9810, I can make a pretty good impression of those infinite numbers of monkees with an infinite number of typewriters trying to write a novel. A slider such as the 9810's portrait mode or even a landscape version (which I would prefer) slider must be on the radar SOMEWHERE in the future lineup of devices.
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  14. kraski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    There was a Torch2 (9810) that had same OS, processor, and everything as the Bold 9900 and didn't sell too hot. T-Mobile sold it for all of 5 weeks before discontinuing. It was much thicker device (but did have an auto-focus camera). Slider designs have many more failure points than slabs or Bold-like designs. RIM is targeting the huge all touch market with the L, and catering to the largest current BlackBerry base with the N. They are trying to make the typing experience on the L so good that they get people to abandon the QWERTY IMHO, which will further consolidate the product offering. Also with the way that the BB10 UI works with the gestures from just above the keyboard, it would be an awkward experience to reach from the lower, recessed keyboard to the upper screen. RIM probably is considering it to niche at this point in their product line to invest a huge effort in it. Maybe if BB10 does great they will explore it.
    The problem with T-Mo's 9810 was only partly the phone. Their 9810 seemed to have more quality issues than the AT&T version, if you look at past threads here. It also was sold at the same time as the 9900, which got much more advertising than the 9810. Marketing is important. And I guess we know which phone gave T-Mo a better profit margin. The 9810 is still being sold by AT&T, which had it long before T-Mo.

    As for slider mechanical issues, in my case, those are minor. Four 9800s and two 9810s since August of 2010. And all the issues were unrelated to my phone being a slider. My second 9810 is 15 months old and just starting to show a random slider issue (screen orientation). Since I use my 9810 mostly with the kb open, the rare times when I need to play with it to get lanscape are too few to be important. I suspect I'm not alone in that.

    As for using gestures while using the keyboard, I'm not sure that's a biggie. Almost all gesture use is likely to be before or after using the kb. So, switching from kb to gesture is going to be a matter of getting used to how you transition, no matter whether it's onscreen, physical or slightly recessed kb. For that, the slider actually may have a slight advantage over the N Series, since it can slide closed and function like the L Series, as needed. And have a larger screen.
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  15. KDB84's Avatar
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    I love my 9810 - I get the larger screen and the full keyboard combination (even though it's not as good as the 9900's keyboard). I don't care about "thinness" if it takes away from the device. I'd love a slightly thicker, full screen (4-inch) slider (bold-like) keyboard with decent battery life and camera (the camera on my 9810 is amazing for an always there point-and-shoot). IMO there is a market for this device, and it should not be at a premium compared to the rest. That said, (unfortunatley, like a lot of my slider-counterparts), I'm sold on BB10 either way. Which is why I don't think they'll come to market with one.

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  16. val_lixembeau's Avatar
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    From what I've heard the 9800 and 9810 were not really sales successes for RIM (though I see a ton of them around).

    But I think in the 9810's case especially that it showed that particular design didn't do well, but not necessarily that all sliders will be failures.

    The 9810 was intended to get a higher resolution screen and faster CPU to market as quickly as possible so it kept most of the 9800's design. That meant the screen's aspect ratio couldn't be changed to 800x480 like the other Torch. In addition, RIM by this time knew more about how to make a thin phone, but they didn't show that with the 9810 resulting in a thick, heavy phone that still had little key travel on the keys. Since the typing experience is what sells the slider over an all touch phone, I think this was fatal. At least it's what convinced me to get a 9900 over 9810. Same number of pixels with much more ocmfortable typing and a thinner sleeker device.

    With a clean sheet design, I'm sure RIM could do much better.
  17. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by val_lixembeau View Post
    From what I've heard the 9800 and 9810 were not really sales successes for RIM (though I see a ton of them around).

    But I think in the 9810's case especially that it showed that particular design didn't do well, but not necessarily that all sliders will be failures.

    The 9810 was intended to get a higher resolution screen and faster CPU to market as quickly as possible so it kept most of the 9800's design. That meant the screen's aspect ratio couldn't be changed to 800x480 like the other Torch. In addition, RIM by this time knew more about how to make a thin phone, but they didn't show that with the 9810 resulting in a thick, heavy phone that still had little key travel on the keys. Since the typing experience is what sells the slider over an all touch phone, I think this was fatal. At least it's what convinced me to get a 9900 over 9810. Same number of pixels with much more ocmfortable typing and a thinner sleeker device.

    With a clean sheet design, I'm sure RIM could do much better.
    BB 7 OS isn't optimized for touch. So, the 9800 Torch slider form factor gave you big screen but the OS wasn't really optimized for utilizing big screen. It didn't feel fluid/fast/snazzy. Constant hourglass, some clickable items required precision (of a trackpad) and so on.

    So, you got a so-so touch experience but in exchange Torch made your typing experience worse (than Bold's) by hiding the keyboard under a slider and by making the keyboard keys a little less tactile as Bold's. I think that's why Torch Slider didn't do well. But BB 10 OS is meant to be touched.

    So, I think a slider will be successful when paired with this OS. Just my opinion.
    ***
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  18. lnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    BB 7 OS isn't optimized for touch. So, the 9800 Torch slider form factor gave you big screen but the OS wasn't really optimized for utilizing big screen. It didn't feel fluid/fast/snazzy. Constant hourglass, some clickable items required precision (of a trackpad) and so on.

    So, you got a so-so touch experience but in exchange Torch made your typing experience worse (than Bold's) by hiding the keyboard under a slider and by making the keyboard keys a little less tactile as Bold's. I think that's why Torch Slider didn't do well. But BB 10 OS is meant to be touched.

    So, I think a slider will be successful when paired with this OS. Just my opinion.
    My 9900 touchscreen experience is great. I don't use the trackpad that often. In fact I think that BBOS7 was optimized more for touch than non-touch because when I go to my kid's Curve 9360's to do something for them it drives me mad how much longer it takes to do things on OS7 without a touch screen and being forced to use the trackpad for navigation. I personally didn't go with a 9810 over the 9900 because when I went to hit the keys towards the top of the keyboard my thumbs kept hitting the bottom of the slider portion of the phone, and other people at the office that played with a few that we got in had similar feedback and opted for a 9900, even though we all really wanted the screen real estate of the 9810. In the end a slider design makes the designer make compromises, you either have to make it thicker and heavier to accommodate a battery to run it as well as other models, or you have to skimp on battery to keep weight and thickness down.
  19. Double_J75's Avatar
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    I loved my 9810. My only gripe was the weight and thickness but it truly was the best of both worlds.

    I went from the 9810 to the 9900. I wish I still had the 9810
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  20. TheBlackberryUser33's Avatar
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    There is a market for a high battery life, heavy powerhouse phone. I would be fine with a phone HEAVIER than the Torch 9810 if it gave me the slider form factor and powerful internals. There is no reason RIM cannot make a BlackBerry 10 slider phone with quad core, 1080p screen, and a massive battery to beat the Droid Razr Maxx. I would buy that in a heartbeat, regardless of weight, thickness, or external appearance. And I am sure I am not alone in that. While I will be going with BlackBerry 10 regardless, RIM ought to remember there is a crowd who could care less about looks and weight, and want powerhouse phones and sliders.
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  21. #21  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ibpluto View Post
    I like my Torch 9810, but I'm not sure I would go back to a slider even if they had one. If I had to rewind back to when I got the Torch, I think I would have gotten the 9900. The Torch Keyboard is not as nice to use (not as nice to thumb about) as the Bolds, so one can ponder that the new touch screen will be as efficient as the current torch to use anyway.

    I think RIM needs to focus on a couple core products and just get them perfect (L and N). If they have too many devices, they just revert back to the "old RIM".

    just my $0.02
    I agree about the 9810 -- I boxed mine after a month once I messed with the 9900 -- there was just no comparison. However, that being said, I would love to see a landscape slider with a keyboard as comfortable to use as the Bold's. What I found with the Torch was that I would browse in landscape mode, then constantly have to flip it vertical whenever I needed to type (I hated its virtual keyboard). I know a lot of people disagree with that, but it seems so natural to me.

    And therein lies another problem with making a slider: some users will want a vertical slider, some will want a horizontal. I think a lot will depend on how well the virtual keyboard is executed. If it's really as good as people are saying it is, it could convert die-hard the QWERTY types like myself and a slider won't be needed at all.
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  22. Xader's Avatar
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    I also never thought the 98xx devices were very good looking. The whole shape was very reminiscent of my old Samsung flip phone when it was closed.

    A much more slab-like slider would no doubt sell better than the original Torch models.
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  23. steven4u2nv's Avatar
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    The Torch 9800 and 9810 had a touch screen keyboard that was good and a full QWERTY keyboard that was good. Sending quick messages with the touch keyboard is simple and easy. The having a physical keyboard comes in real handy with I have to type in access codes and passwords with strange letter combinations and symbols. The predictive text would make it nearly impossible to type letter combos that were not real words. To be honest I wouldn’t wish that guessing game on my worst enemy. I will get an L series when they come out so I can support BB and upgrade away from my 9800. If the release a slider with about the same physical size I will get it, if I have a hard time entering passwords and access codes with the touch only device and predictive text. I don't think it will be an issue since each key will be represented on the all touch device unlike the 9800/9810(in portrait view). BTW landscape view on a 9800 takes up to much screen real-estate.
  24. badiyee85's Avatar
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    Default Why we need a BlackBerry 10 slider

    A slider BlackBerry gives the best of both worlds. Now, the only question is that can they stick to a form factor that can house a full sized L-series / Aristo-like screen with a keyboard as good as the 9000/ 9900 (the Bold series).

    In fact I would definitely not mind a clamshell version of Bold 9900 or a longer version of Bold 9900 with a slide-out keyboard.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
  25. gng11's Avatar
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    Default Why we need a BlackBerry 10 slider

    Sliders may feel good. But as far as its entirety goes, this kind of model needs a rest for a while. RIM has produced far too much of it to really confuse the product line. One keyboard model and one touch model is enough.
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