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  1. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #26  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtaylor1986 View Post
    The world is not divided up into emerging markets and the United States. There are hundreds of millions of people in very rich countries like Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia, Western Europe etc that can afford to purchase high end phones that carry high margins for RIM. The US is very important but it's not USA or bust for RIM. Expand your perspective, the world is a big place.
    Canada: Pop. 33M smaller than California
    Ireland: Pop. 6M smaller than Los Angeles
    Australia: Pop. 22M smaller than Texas
    UK: Pop. 62M about the size of California and Texas
    Western Europe: About 3.4% market share for RIM, which includes the UK, which has more than twice the average at almost 8%.

    Basically, Western Europe is it. The combined population of Canada, Ireland, and Australia is about the combined population of Texas and California, not insignificant, but not huge. Is the Western European market as important or of greater importance than the US for $600 phones? I have doubts, but others may disagree. The fact that RIM is holding its launch event in New York says that's the market RIM considers the most important. Can RIM succeed even if it concedes the US market? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
  2. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #27  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kbz1960 View Post
    And how many haven't been used in forever?
    I don't know about other people. I don't go around asking people things like that. On my phone, I use almost all of them at least once a month. They take up valuable memory space. Whatever I don't use, I delete. My "Purchased" app list is about 600 long, but my phone holds about 120-150 at any given time.
  3. kbz1960's Avatar
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    #28  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    I don't know about other people. I don't go around asking people things like that. On my phone, I use almost all of them at least once a month. They take up valuable memory space. Whatever I don't use, I delete. My "Purchased" app list is about 600 long, but my phone holds about 120-150 at any given time.
    And how many do you have on your computer? I like me some apps but I don't need them just to take me to a webpage or pull info off of one.
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  4. notfanboy's Avatar
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    #29  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kbz1960 View Post
    And how many do you have on your computer? I like me some apps but I don't need them just to take me to a webpage or pull info off of one.
    Off the top of my head, here's small list of apps I use for which the mobile website is either impossible or grossly impractical.

    GoToMyPC remote desktop
    WebEx teleconferencing
    Tasker - context driven task automation
    MagicJack VOIP
    IP camera viewer - home security
    AdBlock
    TunnelBear - vpn to solve the "video not available in your country" problem
    GPS track logger
    Exercise app
    Sleep tracker
    Text to speech engine
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  5. brianatbb's Avatar
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    #30  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    The problem is, selling to the rest of the world doesn't make money for RIM. This matter doesn't really come up, but RIM's future doesn't matter so much on the success of BB10, as much as the success of $600 BB10 devices. RIM could possibly sell large numbers of BB10 phones at $200 and less in emerging markets in a year or so, but they won't make any money doing it. Unless they can sell large quantities of the $600 phones, RIM will continue to tread water at best.
    Rim won't be selling BB10 anywhere for $200. I went to a cellphone shop in India last month. The BlackBerry 9900 was selling (or not selling) for $600.
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  6. kbz1960's Avatar
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    #31  

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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Off the top of my head, here's small list of apps I use for which the mobile website is either impossible or grossly impractical.

    GoToMyPC remote desktop
    WebEx teleconferencing
    Tasker - context driven task automation
    MagicJack VOIP
    IP camera viewer - home security
    AdBlock
    TunnelBear - vpn to solve the "video not available in your country" problem
    GPS track logger
    Exercise app
    Sleep tracker
    Text to speech engine
    Thanks. I'm surprised not to see skype and netflix in your list.
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  7. axeman1000's Avatar
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    #32  

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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    and yet their are a thousand threads just about those apps! The rest of the world is not where RIM has lots millions of subscribers, they still sell millions in other places without those apps anyway.
    Those threads started by american users? Who knows who cares. Good chunk could be by trolls starting trouble. At the end of the day Netflix and hulu only benefit markets with unlimited Internet. As well, Netflix america offers differ than netflix Canada so kind of a wash, but the media overhyped the fact of not being there and one market bought into it, and of course that market is the US. People have to now look beyond apps and see what their device offers overall and that is where bb10 will be stronger. The balance feature to separate work and personal is worth it on its own. That is where the strength will be.
  8. ibpluto's Avatar
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    #33  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    I don't know about other people. I don't go around asking people things like that. On my phone, I use almost all of them at least once a month. They take up valuable memory space. Whatever I don't use, I delete. My "Purchased" app list is about 600 long, but my phone holds about 120-150 at any given time.
    I would be interested to study your habits with your device. I power use about a 15-16 apps dailey, beyond that the rest of my app portfolio sits around alot (I have close to 50 apps total). I very rarely play games (my brain is not wired to enjoy that for any length of time).

    How can you possibly use as many apps as you do? I'm trying to comprehend your habits ....... not registering with me. Not calling BS on you, but I might call "you need to get looked at" LOL
  9. notfanboy's Avatar
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    #34  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kbz1960 View Post
    Thanks. I'm surprised not to see skype and netflix in your list.
    I use MagicJack instead of Skype for VOIP, because I'm already paying for MagicJack at home.
    For video conference, my circles all have access to Google Hangouts.

    As for Netflix, I do have it installed. I hardly every use it though.
  10. Jtaylor1986's Avatar
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    #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Canada: Pop. 33M smaller than California
    Ireland: Pop. 6M smaller than Los Angeles
    Australia: Pop. 22M smaller than Texas
    UK: Pop. 62M about the size of California and Texas
    Western Europe: About 3.4% market share for RIM, which includes the UK, which has more than twice the average at almost 8%.

    Basically, Western Europe is it. The combined population of Canada, Ireland, and Australia is about the combined population of Texas and California, not insignificant, but not huge. Is the Western European market as important or of greater importance than the US for $600 phones? I have doubts, but others may disagree. The fact that RIM is holding its launch event in New York says that's the market RIM considers the most important. Can RIM succeed even if it concedes the US market? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
    You are proving my point. There are hundreds of millions of users in other western developed nations that are potentially customers if the US turnaround doesn't go according to plan. And the launch event is happening simultaneously in 6 different countries not just NYC.

    Population by Country in millions

    Canada 34
    UK 62
    Ireland 4.5
    France 65
    Germany 82
    Spain 47
    Netherlands 17
    Australia 23
    Belgium 11
    Austria 8
    Switzerland 8
    Portugal 11
    Nordic countries 25
    Italy 60

    Total 397.5 million

    Population of the USA 311 million

    Expand your perspective, the world is a big place. BlackBerry has other potential markets to make a buck and it's potential failure in the US doesn't have to be the hill RIM dies on.
    Last edited by Jtaylor1986; 12-19-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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  11. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by axeman1000 View Post
    Those threads started by american users? Who knows who cares. Good chunk could be by trolls starting trouble. At the end of the day Netflix and hulu only benefit markets with unlimited Internet. As well, Netflix america offers differ than netflix Canada so kind of a wash, but the media overhyped the fact of not being there and one market bought into it, and of course that market is the US. People have to now look beyond apps and see what their device offers overall and that is where bb10 will be stronger. The balance feature to separate work and personal is worth it on its own. That is where the strength will be.
    You do realize that Netflix is in Europe now, right? I guess not...
    And I think Balance is going to be a wash. Sure, a minority of people might find it useful, but most people don't have a strict separation between work and private life (for better or worse). They use some of the same apps at home as at work, many of their contacts are the same, etc. The whole balance thing is just RIM being RIM trying to invent features people don't need, and being stuck in the old RIM "Bah, why do people want a camera? Their CIO will never approve it!" kind of thinking...
  12. Jtaylor1986's Avatar
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    #37  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    You do realize that Netflix is in Europe now, right? I guess not...
    And I think Balance is going to be a wash. Sure, a minority of people might find it useful, but most people don't have a strict separation between work and private life (for better or worse). They use some of the same apps at home as at work, many of their contacts are the same, etc. The whole balance thing is just RIM being RIM trying to invent features people don't need, and being stuck in the old RIM "Bah, why do people want a camera? Their CIO will never approve it!" kind of thinking...
    Balance is purely an enterprise feature. It was never meant to appeal to a pure end consumer because it is useless in a non enterprise context. And I am sure that there are literally many millions of government and high end corporate users in sensitive industries like law, accounting, finance, consulting etc worldwide that will very much appreciate what balance allows them to do. Neither of us care about balance because we don't have a need for it but it probably will have a larger influence on sales and adoption than any 1 individual app by itself will, because all it needs to do is convince a few higher up IT people at a huge government or company and it could drive 10 000 + sales right there. I used to work for a large national accounting firm and the IT people lock the BBs down so tight that you basically don't even have a smartphone anymore and the people thought their phones sucked because of it.
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  13. lnichols's Avatar
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    #38  

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    I really wish that people would stop the app debates until January 30th. RIM may have NDA's with some of the top big name app makers to not admit they are making or have made apps for BB10 until after the January 30th launch so RIM can have extra umph at the launch event. If every app maker responded yes, then launch could be really boring. Wait till January 30th people if you can, and if you can't you know what your other options are on the market.
  14. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #39  

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    They need a good number, because every review will point out that number compared to Apple and Android. They also need the primary apps that are popular. The existing BlackBerry OS gets dinged all the time for not having Instagram, Skype, Netflix etc, even though it does actually have quite a few of the table stakes apps that people use most often (Twitter, Facebook, Foursquare etc). I do like the approach that RIM is taking of having two teams deal with this: Alec Saunders' team to build the quantity; and Marty Mallick's team to focus specifically on the named apps.

    So far, Alex's team seems to be fairly successful. I imagine how well Marty's team did will be revealed at launch.
  15. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #40  

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    and being stuck in the old RIM "Bah, why do people want a camera? Their CIO will never approve it!" kind of thinking...
    That camera example is tired and cliched. I had BlackBerrys for 5 years and every one of them had a camera. From before iPhone, Android and Windows Phone had cameras.
  16. Drew808's Avatar
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    #41  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ibpluto View Post
    I would be interested to study your habits with your device. I power use about a 15-16 apps dailey, beyond that the rest of my app portfolio sits around alot (I have close to 50 apps total). I very rarely play games (my brain is not wired to enjoy that for any length of time).

    How can you possibly use as many apps as you do? I'm trying to comprehend your habits ....... not registering with me. Not calling BS on you, but I might call "you need to get looked at" LOL
    In my case I have around 260 apps on my phone ranging from remote desktop apps down to an app that makes a watch beep sound after every hour. Do I really need that many apps, no but I had a choice and the options were endless! I was able to try out several different apps that did the same thing but with maybe a different interface or more polish than another. Also some of my apps like Scoutmob are region specific and are available for IOS and Android but not BB. I don't use Facebook or Instagram but I do use Skype and Netflix heavily on all of my mobile devices and it will be a deal breaker if those expected apps are not there.

    Edit...Scoutmob is available for BB.
    Last edited by Drew808; 12-19-2012 at 02:15 PM.
  17. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbz1960 View Post
    And how many do you have on your computer? I like me some apps but I don't need them just to take me to a webpage or pull info off of one.
    LOL - yeah. I get the app craze and all, but there are an awful lot of stupid apps that exist for the sake of 'having an app'. My local mall has "an app" (on multiple platforms) that really doesn't do anything exist list store hours and put up pictures of the mall floor plans. Not really of any use over and above what looking at the mobile website and/or looking at the floor display panel would provide.

    I do use Skype and Netflix heavily on all of my mobile devices and it will be a deal breaker if those expected apps are not there.
    Someone who watches Netflix on a 4" screen and watches data sucking content? I heard that you existed in vast numbers but I didn't actually believe it!

    I kid, I kid ... just never saw the personal appeal of watching a Netflix show on a 4" smartphone with an overpriced dataplan. Do wish it was on my PlayBook though.
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  18. Drew808's Avatar
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    #43  

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    LOL - yeah. I get the app craze and all, but there are an awful lot of stupid apps that exist for the sake of 'having an app'. My local mall has "an app" (on multiple platforms) that really doesn't do anything exist list store hours and put up pictures of the mall floor plans. Not really of any use over and above what looking at the mobile website and/or looking at the floor display panel would provide.



    Someone who watches Netflix on a 4" screen and watches data sucking content? I heard that you existed in vast numbers but I didn't actually believe it!

    I kid, I kid ... just never saw the personal appeal of watching a Netflix show on a 4" smartphone with an overpriced dataplan. Do wish it was on my PlayBook though.
    Lol!...I have a 5gb plan so I don't really worry about data use and wifi is available everywhere here in Atlanta. You'd be surprised at how many people I see watching content on small screens. My Nexus7 has replaced my 4.3 inch use but it wasn't that bad with the 720p movies having great quality.
  19. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew808 View Post
    Lol!...I have a 5gb plan so I don't really worry about data use and wifi is available everywhere here in Atlanta. You'd be surprised at how many people I see watching content on small screens. My Nexus7 has replaced my 4.3 inch use but it wasn't that bad with the 720p movies having great quality.
    Nice. In Canada, dataplans kinda suck, so I've always shied away from using Netflix or Skype over the air. The screen thing was more of a joke as I've been watching movies and shows stored on my devices and media players for the last seven years. I've tried using my iPod Touch for Netflix over WiFi, but a lot of the public WiFi (like in Hotels) never works well enough for me.
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    #45  

    Default Re: Why RIM doesn't have to worry about the number of apps

    Saying that BB10 only needs the top 100 apps is like saying a phone book only needs to list the 100 most popular people.

    If I'm a doctor and I need a medical app that's available for iPhone but not BB, that's a reason for me to get an iPhone. Multiply that by a thousand other niche apps and that's a lot of reasons for a lot of people to get something other than BB10.

    Depth matters.
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    #46  

    Default Why RIM doesn't have to worry about the number of apps

    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    Quality not quantity. RIM has yet to prove quality though.

    RIM says over 77,000 apps right now.. means nothing if 76,000 of them are junk.
    What some consider junk may be priceless to others. We all are different.


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    #47  

    Default Re: Why RIM doesn't have to worry about the number of apps

    I would agree with the op if only RIM actually had some quality apps.

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    #48  

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    First of all, 400,000 apps in the Apple store have never been downloaded, even once.
    Secondly, choice is nice but 1,900 flashlight apps seems a little extreme.
    How many solitaire choices do you need? Mahjong?
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    #49  

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    First of all, 400,000 apps in the Apple store have never been downloaded, even once.
    Secondly, choice is nice but 1,900 flashlight apps seems a little extreme.
    How many solitaire choices do you need? Mahjong?
    The point remains that there are many, many "niche" apps that appeal to only a small segment of the user base, but are very important for the people who use them. For example, many schools and universities use Blackboard, a web app suite for communication between teachers and students, posting grades, announcements, course discussions, and so on. But it's still a niche app. Nevertheless, for the people who are affected by it, it's very useful to have. It's available for iPhone and Android, but not (yet) for BB or WP. This could give tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of faculty, administrators, and students a strong reason not to get a BB.

    There are countless examples of niche apps like this. Individually, no single app of this sort will make or break a platform, but cumulatively they are very important.

    We too often fall into the false dilemma of thinking there are two kinds of apps: the "big name" popular ones, like Evernote, and the frivolous, "junk" apps, like the flashlight apps.
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  25. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy t View Post
    First of all, 400,000 apps in the Apple store have never been downloaded, even once.
    Why do people insist on pulling fake stats out of their bums and posting them as 'facts' on these forums?
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