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  1. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Default Why BB10 will not save Blackberry

    We are all awaiting the release of the new BB10 devices. The savior of Blackberry. But BB10 does not stand a chance of saving RIM if it still uses BIS.

    While waiting for my BB10 device, I have bought an iPhone 4S and a Samsung Galaxy. They are both good phones but have their issues. You can't change the battery on the iphone 4S and on long duty days, I come up short and run out of power. The screen is too small too.

    The Samsung SIII has a great screen size and changeable battery which allows me to travel with 2 batteries. Android OS is buggy though and with the OS fragmentation due to different carriers customizing their bloatware, OS upgrades are few and far between. The Android OS is smoother and better than any current BB OS though.

    One of the things the iphone and Android do much better than a Blackberry on BIS is consumer email. Both these OS use Microsoft Active Sync, so there is full synchronization of your mobile email and your desktop webmail. It is very slick. Also, with Active Sync, you get wireless synchronization of your contacts and your calendar.

    RIM runs email accounts on BIS through their NOC. This allows them to charge carriers a subscriber fee. But these fees are falling fast and BIS is looking like the noose around RIM's neck. And it is getting tighter everyday.

    I did have wireless synchronization of contacts and calendar on my Blackberry with BIS, but I had to use a Google product and it never worked properly or reliably. I ended up having to sync my Blackberry to my PC with a cable and DM which was very archaic.

    If BB10 comes out with Active Sync for BIS accounts, I will be the first in line to buy a new Blackberry.

    If they don't support Active Sync, this will be the death of them.

    Active Sync also allows handsets without a data plan to have a full email experience over Wifi using the phones native email client. This is not possible on a Blackberry.

    RIM needs to grow the consumer market to survive and the only way to do so is to use ActiveSync on BB10 for BIS accounts.
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
  2. gorang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E92Vancouver View Post
    If they don't support Active Sync, this will be the death of them.

    That's all that's needed?
    You should have became CEO and not that Thorsten character that's overcomplicating things in RIM.
    Guy is trying so hard with making deals with carriers and pushing for flawless experience and make company profitable again and all that's really needed is just making sure ActiveSync works with BIS. How were we all so blind all this time
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    why wont bb10 have activesync.....the PB does already you know
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  4. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorang View Post
    That's all that's needed?
    You should have became CEO and not that Thorsten character that's overcomplicating things in RIM.
    Guy is trying so hard with making deals with carriers and pushing for flawless experience and make company profitable again and all that's really needed is just making sure ActiveSync works with BIS. How were we all so blind all this time
    It is that simple. Lack of Active Sync makes a BB a non starter for consumers. That's why market share is 5% and is plummeting.

    This Thorsten guy is not coming across as any type of genius.
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
  5. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    why wont bb10 have activesync.....the PB does already you know
    Yes, Howarmat. I realize the PB has Active Sync. RIM couldn't figure out how to make 2 devices ( a blackberry and a Playbook) access the same email account through BIS. After waiting 7 months for a native email client on the PB, RIM capitulated and went to ActiveSync.

    RIM wants to keep BIS email going through their NOC so they can keep sending carriers a bill for subscriber fees. This is short sighted.
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
  6. Cyba.Cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Why BB10 will not save Blackberry

    Whilst I don't agree that a lack of ActiveSync alone will kill BlackBerry, I do agree that the lack of this functionality won't help.

    Our family has our own domains which are run through Google Apps - one of the main reasons for this is because our contacts are saved "in the cloud" and in the case of an Android-powered smartphone, synchronized with our smartphones.

    Fed-up with Android usage times, I recently went back to a BlackBerry Curve 9320 (I used BlackBerry smartphones exclusively until the BlackBerry Bold 9000) and was surprised to see that "out-of-the-box", my BlackBerry Curve 9320 downloaded all of my Google Apps contacts (previous BlackBerry smartphones never used to do this)!

    I've only been back on BlackBerry for a few days and have not yet had a chance to test if this synchronization is two-way or not, but if BlackBerry OS doesn't support two-way synchronization and more importantly, BlackBerry 10 doesn't, it's going to be hard to justify the upgrade.

    That's not to say I won't upgrade to BlackBerry 10, but if Sony releases an Android smartphone with similar usage times to a BlackBerry smartphone, well it's going to be pretty hard to justify if BlackBerry 10 smartphones don't support some form of wireless synchronization...

    Sent from my BlackBerry Curve 9320, using Tapatalk.
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  7. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyba.Cowboy View Post
    Whilst I don't agree that a lack of ActiveSync alone will kill BlackBerry, I do agree that the lack of this functionality won't help.

    Our family has our own domains which are run through Google Apps - one of the main reasons for this is because our contacts are saved "in the cloud" and in the case of an Android-powered smartphone, synchronized with our smartphones.

    Fed-up with Android usage times, I recently went back to a BlackBerry Curve 9320 (I used BlackBerry smartphones exclusively until the BlackBerry Bold 9000) and was surprised to see that "out-of-the-box", my BlackBerry Curve 9320 downloaded all of my Google Apps contacts (previous BlackBerry smartphones never used to do this)!

    I've only been back on BlackBerry for a few days and have not yet had a chance to test if this synchronization is two-way or not, but if BlackBerry OS doesn't support two-way synchronization and more importantly, BlackBerry 10 doesn't, it's going to be hard to justify the upgrade.

    That's not to say I won't upgrade to BlackBerry 10, but if Sony releases an Android smartphone with similar usage times to a BlackBerry smartphone, well it's going to be pretty hard to justify if BlackBerry 10 smartphones don't support some form of wireless synchronization...

    Sent from my BlackBerry Curve 9320, using Tapatalk.
    By usage times, do you mean battery life?
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
  8. ianchristie1972's Avatar
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    Default Why BB10 will not save Blackberry

    OS6 on my Bold 9700 seems to have no problem with keeping my emails synced between desktop, webmail and my device without connecting to DM.

    As for contacts and calendar, I have no problem syncing with my Yahoo or Google contacts and calendar. All without any third party apps. Now if you want to use Outlook for the calendar and contacts, that most likely a setting in Outlook.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk
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  9. AVPTI's Avatar
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    The NOC isn't only so they can charge carriers...it's a layer of security and compression.

    And their NOC's code was written 15 years ago...That was too much code to work through in order to have QNX be compatiable.
    XoXoXo
  10. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianchristie1972 View Post
    OS6 on my Bold 9700 seems to have no problem with keeping my emails synced between desktop, webmail and my device without connecting to DM.

    As for contacts and calendar, I have no problem syncing with my Yahoo or Google contacts and calendar. All without any third party apps. Now if you want to use Outlook for the calendar and contacts, that most likely a setting in Outlook.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk
    Let's say you have a gmail account. On an android, if you delete the email on the PC it is deleted on the mobile, instantly. If you undelete it on the PC it is undeleted on the mobile. Mark it has read on the mobile and it is marked as read on the PC. Mark it as unread on the PC and it is marked as unread on the mobile.

    This functionality is available on an android and iphone but not a blackberry.

    It is unproductive to spend an hour cleaning up your mobile email, only to have to do the same thing on your PC, if you are the owner of a Blackberry.

    Active Sync gives you instant 2 way synchronization of your mobile and PC webmail when using the native email client. BIS does not.
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
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  11. Thunderbuck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by E92Vancouver View Post
    Let's say you have a gmail account. On an android, if you delete the email on the PC it is deleted on the mobile, instantly. If you undelete it on the PC it is undeleted on the mobile. Mark it has read on the mobile and it is marked as read on the PC. Mark it as unread on the PC and it is marked as unread on the mobile.

    This functionality is available on an android and iphone but not a blackberry.

    It is unproductive to spend an hour cleaning up your mobile email, only to have to do the same thing on your PC, if you are the owner of a Blackberry.

    Active Sync gives you instant 2 way synchronization of your mobile and PC webmail when using the native email client. BIS does not.
    Sooo, what am I missing here? You're saying BB10 is doomed to fail without ActiveSync, and you're entitled to your opinion. Am I to assume that you somehow missed the bit about BB10 using ActiveSync? It's already there.
  12. twstd.reality's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why BB10 will not save Blackberry

    I guess BlackBerry's saved.

    http://jayphillips.ca/rims-bb10-will-use-active-sync/

    "There are a number of reasons that RIM made the choice to go with ActiveSync as the sync engine for our next generation of messaging on BlackBerry tablets and smartphones. Over the past decade, ActiveSync has matured as a protocol. We are able to use ActiveSync to provide a capable sync engine that is supported for both the traditional Enterprise email platforms that RIM currently supports, and for additional email platforms that support the Microsoft ActiveSync protocol. This ability to build a single sync engine increases the reach of BlackBerry devices, while reducing the complexity of the custom sync engine that exists in today’s BlackBerry® Enterprise Server (BES). By selecting ActiveSync, we are able to provide a set of additional options for email connectivity to our customers including growth to support multiple devices for each user. In addition, weincreased scalabilitywith BlackBerry Mobile Fusion when compared to the BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Customers also have expressed interest in taking advantage of different levels of security, from the basics that come with Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync through to the advanced security and controls that come with BlackBerry Mobile Fusion and the BlackBerry Infrastructure."
  13. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    Sooo, what am I missing here? You're saying BB10 is doomed to fail without ActiveSync, and you're entitled to your opinion. Am I to assume that you somehow missed the bit about BB10 using ActiveSync? It's already there.
    BB10 is using ActiveSync for BES. Have you read anywhere that BIS will use ActiveSync? I would like to see the link to that article please.
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
  14. jafrul's Avatar
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    Default Why BB10 will not save Blackberry

    Quote Originally Posted by E92Vancouver View Post
    Let's say you have a gmail account. On an android, if you delete the email on the PC it is deleted on the mobile, instantly. If you undelete it on the PC it is undeleted on the mobile. Mark it has read on the mobile and it is marked as read on the PC. Mark it as unread on the PC and it is marked as unread on the mobile.

    This functionality is available on an android and iphone but not a blackberry.

    It is unproductive to spend an hour cleaning up your mobile email, only to have to do the same thing on your PC, if you are the owner of a Blackberry.

    Active Sync gives you instant 2 way synchronization of your mobile and PC webmail when using the native email client. BIS does not.
    i don't know about you, but what u mentioned here is what i've been doing on my torch 9800 for the past 2 and a half year.
    deleting email on my BB will ask me whether to delete both email on my phone and pc, phone only or email only.
    if i move from spam folder to unspam, it will automatically marked as new email on my BB.
    maybe i misunderstand what u are trying to say regarding active sync between BB and PC.
    care to elaborate more?

    Sent from my unsliding slider BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
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  15. marlowe9810's Avatar
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    For some the BIS/BES advantage in the area of security and data compression is what matters most. That is not to say what you are saying is not important. What I am trying to say here is that there are varying client/user needs across the market place from individuals, corporations to regions. RIM needs to understand what is their place in the market (i.e. where they want to compete) and understand the needs, challenges and issues . And if through that understanding they are able to address those needs in BB10 then maybe blackberry can be saved.
  16. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twstd.reality View Post
    I guess BlackBerry's saved.

    RIM’s BB10 Will Use Active Sync | Jay Phillips Technologies

    "There are a number of reasons that RIM made the choice to go with ActiveSync as the sync engine for our next generation of messaging on BlackBerry tablets and smartphones. Over the past decade, ActiveSync has matured as a protocol. We are able to use ActiveSync to provide a capable sync engine that is supported for both the traditional Enterprise email platforms that RIM currently supports, and for additional email platforms that support the Microsoft ActiveSync protocol. This ability to build a single sync engine increases the reach of BlackBerry devices, while reducing the complexity of the custom sync engine that exists in today’s BlackBerry® Enterprise Server (BES). By selecting ActiveSync, we are able to provide a set of additional options for email connectivity to our customers including growth to support multiple devices for each user. In addition, weincreased scalabilitywith BlackBerry Mobile Fusion when compared to the BlackBerry Enterprise Server. Customers also have expressed interest in taking advantage of different levels of security, from the basics that come with Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync through to the advanced security and controls that come with BlackBerry Mobile Fusion and the BlackBerry Infrastructure."
    Thanks for this, but this article confirms that BES will use ActiveSync. It does not talk about BIS.

    BES is great if you work for a company that pays for this service. But consumers use BIS and this is where RIM needs to grow market share.
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
  17. E92Vancouver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jafrul View Post
    i don't know about you, but what u mentioned here is what i've been doing on my torch 9800 for the past 2 and a half year.
    deleting email on my BB will ask me whether to delete both email on my phone and pc, phone only or email only.
    if i move from spam folder to unspam, it will automatically marked as new email on my BB.
    maybe i misunderstand what u are trying to say regarding active sync between BB and PC.
    care to elaborate more?

    Sent from my unsliding slider BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    Yes, I am aware of this. This is one way synchronization. When you delete an email on your PC is it deleted from your Berry? If you mark an email on your PC as read, is it marked as read on your Berry? The answer is no. This is two way sync.
    7.1.0.391-Finally have mobile hot spot. Welcome to 2010 RIMM

    Torch 9810|Samsung Galaxy S4 |iPhone 5S|Nexus 7 Tablet |iPod 32gb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    Sooo, what am I missing here? You're saying BB10 is doomed to fail without ActiveSync, and you're entitled to your opinion. Am I to assume that you somehow missed the bit about BB10 using ActiveSync? It's already there.
    Does this mean we will be waiting for 5-10 minutes for our emails to be pushed through like on Android and iOS?
  19. GTiLeo's Avatar
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    if BES uses it why wouldn't BIS, the current dev alphas do not use BIS and are runnign activesync if i do remember right.

    currently i've never heard anyone complain about their BIS service we have BBM, Push e mail, data compression and security all through this NOC, how on earth is this their bloody noose.

    bud your full of crap but thanks for your input
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydsam View Post
    Does this mean we will be waiting for 5-10 minutes for our emails to be pushed through like on Android and iOS?
    if you have to wait 5-10 minutes then you arent using activesync.....
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    I can't wait to come back to this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTiLeo View Post
    if BES uses it why wouldn't BIS, the current dev alphas do not use BIS and are runnign activesync if i do remember right.
    Shh.. don't tell him. It's much more amusing this way.
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    Coming from vanvouver ...I wouldn't expect any better of a thread.
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    go talk to your average consumer and see how much they care about active sync and emails. I'll help, they dont care.

    Isnt this mis-information? Every single day I delete stuff on my BB linked to my gmail and its instantaneously deleteing on my PC

    OP, you project too much. Being dead for you does not equal everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    Shh.. don't tell him. It's much more amusing this way.
    BlackBerry 10 Dev Alpha A and B – What Developers Need To Know «BlackBerry Developer Blog says that the dev devices don't need a blackberry plan but the production devices will need a blackberry plan so doesn't that mean BIS or BES?
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