[belfastdispatcher]

I dont think you're understanding here. An "apologist" says stuff like "We don't need those apps/features. In fact, I BB is even better because it DOESN'T have them!" I remember a certain CB member even said that BB would lose credibility if it ever even offered Netflix, Instagram, etc in the app world.

The difference is when someone doesn't use or have a need for Instagram and other apps to realize that millions of others do use them, and and their availability will play a large role in the success of BB10. I don't use Instagram and never have. I don't use it on Android and I won't use it on BB10. But I sure as heck don't want people who do use and enjoy it to be left out.

Well there's two ways at looking at it, one from a platform point of view and what it needs to be popular and the other from a personal view.

My 9900 doesn't have a front facing camera and it's better for me because I would never use it and it would be just extra hardware and software at extra cost that I don't really need. From a platform point of view that's a weakness.

I put my wants and needs in a smartphone first and the platform needs second and it might make me sound like an apologist. But I'm not alone, there's many like me.

It's ok to want more but it's also ok to be happy with what you have.

[qbnkelt]

I dont think you're understanding here. An "apologist" says stuff like "We don't need those apps/features. In fact, I BB is even better because it DOESN'T have them!" I remember a certain CB member even said that BB would lose credibility if it ever even offered Netflix, Instagram, etc in the app world.

The difference is when someone doesn't use or have a need for Instagram and other apps to realize that millions of others do use them, and and their availability will play a large role in the success of BB10. I don't use Instagram and never have. I don't use it on Android and I won't use it on BB10. But I sure as heck don't want people who do use and enjoy it to be left out.

Unbefrackinbelievable.

The ones advocating the absence of the apps are the ones who are denying folks who want the app the ability to use them, but when I say I want the app and if someone doesn't use it then they don't have to I'm somehow denying them the right not to use it????? WHAT?!?!?!?
If it's on the phone, and you don't want to use it, don't use it. If it's one the phone and I want to use it, I use it.
Example....my BB has some game called PAC-MAN BB. Haven't used it once.
I routinely delete Tasks.
I routinely delete Help.
Should I go on a crusade because those apps that *I don't find useful* are not needed on everyone's else's device???? No....let people use them.
Didn't the phone come with Slacker or Pandora??? Both gone from my devices....

CHOICE is the decision to use something that is there or the decision to remove it. THE ABSENCE OF IT DOES NOT GIVE THAT CHOICE.

Seriously....are people actually ADVOCATING the ABSENCE of choice????

[llllBULLSEYE]

I'm still a huge Rim fan, but Android is my main device and although I rarely use instagram there is no denying BlackBerry is missing
out big time. This is the newest Social app and whether we want to believe it or not its hurting sales one way or another.
Let's be real people hate feeling left out.

[belfastdispatcher]

Unbefrackinbelievable.

The ones advocating the absence of the apps are the ones who are denying folks who want the app the ability to use them, but when I say I want the app and if someone doesn't use it then they don't have to I'm somehow denying them the right not to use it????? WHAT?!?!?!?
If it's on the phone, and you don't want to use it, don't use it. If it's one the phone and I want to use it, I use it.
Example....my BB has some game called PAC-MAN BB. Haven't used it once.
I routinely delete Tasks.
I routinely delete Help.
Should I go on a crusade because those apps that *I don't find useful* are not needed on everyone's else's device???? No....let people use them.
Didn't the phone come with Slacker or Pandora??? Both gone from my devices....

CHOICE is the decision to use something that is there or the decision to remove it. THE ABSENCE OF IT DOES NOT GIVE THAT CHOICE.

Seriously....are people actually ADVOCATING the ABSENCE of choice????

Ironically your argument is also agains choice, call it the choice not to have a choice if you want.

If one doesn't want more then a more basic smartphone by today's standards, shouldn't he have that coice?

You can have a choice in a more specialised product(I drive a Smart Car for example with no choice but to carry only one passager) or you can have a choice in a full speck SUV or whatever.

Yes I want BB10 to have it all, but I don't need all and I want a BB product that fits closer to my needs, not the majority's needs.

It's all choice.

[pantlesspenguin]

Well there's two ways at looking at it, one from a platform point of view and what it needs to be popular and the other from a personal view.

My 9900 doesn't have a front facing camera and it's better for me because I would never use it and it would be just extra hardware and software at extra cost that I don't really need. From a platform point of view that's a weakness.

I put my wants and needs in a smartphone first and the platform needs second and it might make me sound like an apologist. But I'm not alone, there's many like me.

It's ok to want more but it's also ok to be happy with what you have.

Last I checked having a FFC doesn't equate to higher cost. Case in point:

Here's the LG MyTouch, suggested retail $349.99. It has a FFC. Unsupported Browser

Here's the BlackBerry 9900, suggested retail $549.99. As you know, it does not have a FFC. Unsupported Browser

When something is available to me that I don't need, I simply don't use it. I don't begrudge it to anyone who may not have the same needs that I do.

[belfastdispatcher]

Last I checked having a FFC doesn't equate to higher cost. Case in point:

Here's the LG MyTouch, suggested retail $349.99. It has a FFC. Unsupported Browser

Here's the BlackBerry 9900, suggested retail $549.99. As you know, it does not have a FFC. Unsupported Browser

When something is available to me that I don't need, I simply don't use it. I don't begrudge it to anyone who may not have the same needs that I do.

For the same price I bought my Smart Car I could've had any normal sized car that could carry 4 passagers but my Smartc car can only carry one. I made that choice for other reasons.

It's ok to have the choice to have more but it's also ok to have the choice to have less no? If what you say was true Smart Cars would simply not exist. It's the same with smart phones. Should I buy a normal car because it has 4 passagers seats even though I would never use them just because other people might?

[pantlesspenguin]

Back to the point though, this is just about Instagram. It will be an app in app world. No one is going to force you to join. It's not like the minute it becomes available the Instagram powers that be are going to seek you out and force you to sign up and share all your pics on their program. Just don't install it, and it'll be like it's not even there for you, while millions of other BB10 users can enjoy the program they found on ios or android while still enjoying the whole BB10 experience.

[pantlesspenguin]

For the same price I bought my Smart Car I could've had any normal sized car that could carry 4 passagers but my Smartc car can only carry one. I made that choice for other reasons.

It's ok to have the choice to have more but it's also ok to have the choice to have less no? If what you say was true Smart Cars would simply not exist. It's the same with smart phones. Should I buy a normal car because it has 4 passagers seats even though I would never use them just because other people might?

Dude you have a Smart Car because you have the CHOICE to get one. Choice is good! But right now we're talking phones. Remember there are other BB10 devices coming out that we haven't even heard about. Maybe one of them won't have a FFC and then you'll have the choice to purchase that one. In the meantime, FFCs have become a smartphone standard. If you don't like it you could always stick a piece of black electrical tape over yours or something.

[Lendo]

I'm not even sure what Instagram is LOL

[qbnkelt]

I'm not even sure what Instagram is LOL

LOL!!!! Neither did I, until family and friends on iPhone and Android commented on using it, having fun taking pics and editing them on the fly on their devices, then posting to Twitter or FB.
I have a very small group in FB simply because I don't give out aspects of my life to people I don't know*in the flesh.* However, I have a choice of who is on my Instagram list, who don't have access to my FB, but who have similar interests to me. So I share pics with them based on those interests.
All about choice. As the Penguin mentioned, it will be in app world.....if you don't want it, don't use it. Can't be simpler.

[Lendo]

Sounds interesting. Guess I'd have to try it out to see if I like it. I'm not a big pic poster though.

[qbnkelt]

Sounds interesting. Guess I'd have to try it out to see if I like it. I'm not a big pic poster though.

Then you might not be interested. I happen to take pics all the time, particularly with my Android, my iPhone, and my iPad, since I really like the quality of the pictures they produce, so I do use Instagram constantly.

[BlackBerry Guy]

No, they're sheep because they want the app only because other people have it

So if some users from other platforms want BBM, would they be considered sheep too?

[RubberChicken76]

Very bizarre that this thread has gone on for four pages. Of course RIM needs 'instagram'. It's a big app and lots of people use it. I don't get the big deal, but every day someone on my facebook or twitter is posting an instagram photo and also sharing things with other instagram users.

[notfanboy]

There were at one time these regular weekly threads on the Playbook subforum where users shared pictures and video taken with the device. I would hope, for consistency's sake, that none of the "Instagram is pointless" posters participated in those threads.

[qbnkelt]

So if some users from other platforms want BBM, would they be considered sheep too?

No.
They would be wise.
BBM is a BB native app and inherently necessaryfor civilised society.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

[qbnkelt]

There were at one time these regular weekly threads on the Playbook subforum where users shared pictures and video taken with the device. I would hope, for consistency's sake, that none of the "Instagram is pointless" posters participated in those threads.

It will be interesting, won't it?


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

[BB_Bmore]

BoackBerry10 will have some awesome photo and video editing baked right in. From what I'm told its pretty powerful stuff, BlackBerry needs to have as many apps as possible at launch. There is no way around this.

[LazyEvul]

Instagram is a very major app. After having received so much criticism for a lack of apps, launching BB10 without it would be a big mistake. They need to have all the big-name apps they can get, and then some. Whether or not you enjoy Instagram personally is a whole different discussion (Personally I don't see much point in it), but there are well over 30 million people who use it right now, with over a billion photographs uploaded, so it's quite clearly important to a significant number of people.

[ynomrah]

When you truly look at it, being that rim is in such good terms with Facebook, I don't see how Instagram won't be there. Being that Facebook owns them and all.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

[Joy1980]

Everyone here is arguing about how necessary Instagram is to the platform but even if RIM does get them to do develop an app for BB 10, what is going to happen when another app becomes popular and BB 10 does not have it? Are we going to say that people will leave en masse because of it. I believe that the only time that apps are the most important advantage is when all platforms themselves have no inherent advantage over each other.
'
What RIM seems to be doing is creating an experience that people will be drawn to and hopefully, the experience would be enough that they will be willing to give up their favourite apps long enough for the devs to follow. I know this is a big order but they need to become a big enough force that devs will always consider them when developing an app. If you also add the fact that they have created a tool set that makes almost stupidly easy to port or code for BB 10 along with their platform of choice, I believe the apps will come. But they need to prove that the experience on BB 10 is worth the switch, even if means you that you lose access to instagram for a few weeks.

[qbnkelt]

Everyone here is arguing about how necessary Instagram is to the platform but even if RIM does get them to do develop an app for BB 10, what is going to happen when another app becomes popular and BB 10 does not have it? Are we going to say that people will leave en masse because of it. I believe that the only time that apps are the most important advantage is when all platforms themselves have no inherent advantage over each other.
'
What RIM seems to be doing is creating an experience that people will be drawn to and hopefully, the experience would be enough that they will be willing to give up their favourite apps long enough for the devs to follow. I know this is a big order but they need to become a big enough force that devs will always consider them when developing an app. If you also add the fact that they have created a tool set that makes almost stupidly easy to port or code for BB 10 along with their platform of choice, I believe the apps will come. But they need to prove that the experience on BB 10 is worth the switch, even if means you that you lose access to instagram for a few weeks.

They will need to adapt, respond, and execute in the same manner as iOS and Android in order to avoid this from continuing:

q3-2012-smartphones | TechCrunch

[Joy1980]

They will need to adapt, respond, and execute in the same manner as iOS and Android in order to avoid this from continuing:

q3-2012-smartphones | TechCrunch

Apple gained their marketshare because they had a compelling product that was unlike any other at the time; Android gained marketshare because the carriers wanted to compete with the iPhone on AT&T and because they have a phone at every price point. Is that how you want them to adapt, respond, and execute? RIM does not have the time or the money to go the Android route but they seem to be going the Apple route.

[qbnkelt]

RIM has a "flagship" device with a paltry app store and a ridiculously flawed camera. It has medium of the road devices that are serviceable. It owns the developing market with entry Curve devices. RIM even has a luxury device at $2000. I would say RIM has a device at each price point.

The carriers sell and promote what sells. BB doesn't sell. A marketshare in the single digits tells you that.

In 2007 the App store did not exist. Jobs saw a market/need to fill the void for the deficiencies in the OS that had to be met with the use of apps.

That is an adaptation that has served Apple well.

Android has an enormous app selection.

It's survival of the fittest. Either adapt, respond and execute or perish.

How often do you see adverts for iOS and Android apps for specific businesses but none for BB? Where is BB in terms of marketshare? I would suggest that if RIM hadn't sat in a garden like a fat cat complacent in its sovereignty in his home garden, a leaner, meaner, hungrier iOS or Android would not have jumped in to scoop up all the fat birds that RIM was too fat and complacent to fight for.

History speaks for itself.

[notfanboy]

I dont think you're understanding here. An "apologist" says stuff like "We don't need those apps/features. In fact, I BB is even better because it DOESN'T have them!" I remember a certain CB member even said that BB would lose credibility if it ever even offered Netflix, Instagram, etc in the app world.

This comment got me to thinking about some more examples of things apologists say. I started a thread but I guess I could have responded here instead.

Below are some examples of passionately argued positions over the past year and a half since the Playbook was released. Some of these are hard to believe today, but I swear I did not make any of these up. The threads are still there if you look for them. Here then, is a brief history lesson on fanboy apologetics.

"Apps are a crutch," the rallying cry went, "who needs them when you can access the full web?" Links to all sorts of websites where compiled as a substitute for apps and games. Soon however, the Android player became available, apps suddenly became extremely popular. This particular delusion is still alive, but it really started dying off when RIM itself came out and said that apps were important.

Native email. There were a number of posters who argued that they preferred NOT to have native email. As with many missing features, the reason given was "security." Some claimed that they wished native email would come just to shut up the whiners who wanted native email.

Autocorrect. My favorite one was that autocorrect helped made kids dumb. Besides BB people already know how to spell.

Netflix. It was the company that was going bankrupt anyway. It was funny how every company who refused to support RIM had a crappy product or was about to go under. About Netflix, why watch it on the tablet when I have a 50" TV? When someone made the mistake of saying it was good for keeping the kids entertained, that poster got reamed for bad parenting. Why are you using the iPad as a babysitter, it was argued.

Who needs Skype? Playbook video chat is better. I have Skype on my computer anyway, and besides Skype on mobile devices don't work as well as the desktop version and it doesn't work with bluetooth

Who needs "insert popular game here". Tools, not toys. Besides you can play it on this flash website. This attitude started dying out when RIM announced heavy gaming support in their developer conference, and when the big name games started appearing.

I'm sure everyone can think of a few more examples. The gist of it is this: When it comes to features, If RIM doesn't have it, an apologist will claim that it next to useless. However if RIM in time gets the feature, then it's not useless after all. And if a feature is unique to RIM, it's a game changing, revolutionary feature.