[RyanGermann]

Not really trying to convince you. I doubt there's much I could say that could change your mind.

I do smile -- respectfully -- at the $100 figure. If that was the asking price per app, BlackBerry indeed would happily pay, and enjoy a well-stocked app store.

Of course you know I mean actual COSTS in terms of how much it would cost to build, NOT how much the vendor would ask BlackBerry to pay... a willing developer would ask BlackBerry to pay their costs, possibly sweeten the deal with a bit of profit on it too, then ask BlackBerry to bear the cost of the ongoing support of the app, whether done by BlackBerry or the original vendor... and it wouldn't be an amount that BlackBerry is unwilling to pay for high-profile apps.

Flappy Birds: single developer: overnight sensation: developer FREAKS OUT and pulls it off the market. You can't explain the reasoning for apps being available or not available simply with cash. So, no, they would NOT have a well stocked app store just by throwing money at the problem because they tried that.

Forgive me if I wasn't clear about the difference between "sunk costs to the vendor of the original app" vs. "how much the app vendor can squeeze marginalized platform OS developers for". I was and am talking solely about the former (because everyone talks about how the app vendor's investors don't want the developers spending resources developing for marginalized OS platforms as if the costs to do so would be significant, but they're not.)

Consider this: one app developer I was affiliated with that isn't even on the Top 100 list was contacted by BBRY to port an app to BBW for the PlayBook. It was a one time deal, and your amount doesn't come close. By the time BB10 came around, the support costs incurred actually made the port run at a loss, significant enough for this developer to decline a similar offer.

I assume $100,000 figure is low... on the side of the developer i.e. they demanded more from BB than that, or that BB offered a lot more than $100,000 and they accepted? I think the latter.

I assume their business model was incompatible with low-volume device platform that was EOLed barely 2 years after launch... yeah, I'd be upset too, but when we're talking free apps and little no additive costs of having the app on multiple platforms, $200,000 would be AMPLE to cover development costs (gross mismanagement and poor product management notwithstanding)

No major developer would allow any other entity to maintain its self-developed app.

Pronouns: who is "its": do you mean "no vendor of a high profile app would allow a third party (even an OS platform owner) to develop and maintain a version of the vendors app originally developed by the original vendor?" or do you mean that they wouldn't allow BlackBerry to develop and maintain a BlackBerry developed app? If the former, sure, but then there WOULD be an app on that platform, so its moot, but if its the latter, that's false: there already are big (the BIGGEST) named app vendors letting BlackBerry do this, even if only by not blocking connectivity of the BB10 version developed by BlackBerry. You've heard of Facebook and Twitter I think... and Instagram doesn't seem to be blocking IGrann or Insta10 so it looks like its smooth sailing for Instagram support on BB10 (until they change their minds I guess).

I think folks would blanch if we ever came to know how much Netflix asked for. I don't blame BBRY for passing.

Sure, I'm sure Netflix would have asked for the sun, moon, and stars... so your assertion is that IF BlackBerry was willing to give them whatever they asked for, there would be a BB10 version of Netflix? Now, would you care to even guess at what they asked for? and then how much of that would be "profit" above and beyond the cost to actually develop the native BB10 version? Well, I can't read the minds of the Netflix management, and I think it would be a scary place <cough>qwikster</cough> <cough>100% price increase</cough> ahem. but the Android port works, Netflix isn't actively blocking it, so at least they're not completely off the trolley.

If the only reason why there isn't a SnapChat app on Windows and BB10 is that SnapChat thinks they have the upper hand and want BlackBerry and Microsoft to pay LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY for SnapChat to "allow" BlackBerry 10 and WP to participate in SnapChat... well... that answers the question of what "SnapChat fears" from BlackBerry... that users will find out that they hold BB10 users in such contempt. They don't "fear" anything, they just want to squeeze BB and MS for as much as they can.

THAT'S an explanation I can get on board with.

[Cynycl]

So please explain why SnapChat is expending thousands of dollars suing third party developers and blocking their apps instead of helping them "do it right" by providing the proper API'S.

Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry OS 10.3.2.500 on Q10

For the same reason clothing and other product manufacturers sue those that make chinese knock offs of their products, instead of helping them to do a better job of ripping off their product or intellectual property.

Blackberry spends plenty on lawyers/lawsuits to protect their product/brand/trademarks and IP too. Perhaps they should release their IP and help everyone to "do it right" as well. You know......... Intellectually Property and Trademark neutrality after all.

[Tre Lawrence]

If the only reason why there isn't a SnapChat app on Windows and BB10 is that SnapChat thinks they have the upper hand and want BlackBerry and Microsoft to pay LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY for SnapChat to "allow" BlackBerry 10 and WP to participate in SnapChat... well... that answers the question of what "SnapChat fears" from BlackBerry... that users will find out that they hold BB10 users in such contempt. They don't "fear" anything, they just want to squeeze BB and MS for as much as they can.

THAT'S an explanation I can get on board with.

In the end, it does boil down to this for several developers IMHO. They own a valuable product, and know that the smaller platforms need their software more than they (developers) need the platform.

It's not the only factor, but I'm sure it affects major players.

It was my assumption that BB10 Facebook and Twitter apps are designed and maintained by BlackBerry itself, and those entities have nothing to do with the product.

[Troy Tiscareno]

It was my assumption that BB10 Facebook and Twitter apps are designed and maintained by BlackBerry itself, and those entities have nothing to do with the product.

Facebook and Twitter have (and have had for a long time) public APIs. Most app developers do not have public APIs, and that's why you really can't compare FB and Twitter to developers like SnapChat, who have a closed API.

[Josh_Gooner]

Why do people fuss over these silly apps? Grown folks acting like bloody teenagers.

Mind boggling stuff.

Posted via CB10

[cathulu15]

Yeah, but the truth is out there lol. Still no word on why snapchat polls for the next platform when the opportunity cost blah blah blah.

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

Yeah, but the truth is out there lol. Still no word on why snapchat polls for the next platform when the opportunity cost blah blah blah.

Posted via CB10

Everyone does those polls. It helps with mindshare, and might even give the developer platform-specific insight, but a poll is hardly binding.

If the opportunity to expand platforms is that compelling, the developer won't be basing the decision on a poll.

[MarsupilamiX]

The costs are negligible, no matter how many people keep saying that they're a significant factor, and the resource requirements would be very very small to none on behalf of SnapChat, compensated for my MS and BB.

It's fair to say that costs of building a business case are too high to be troubled with... but in this case building the business case would cost MORE than just developing the product. You're not going to convince me that for SnapChat to develop a BB10 version of their product or allow BB to do it (when independent developers have done it singlehandedly) costs are "significant" no matter whether proponents of this... conjecture... think that because SnapChat has a multi-billion dollar valuation, there are dozens and dozens of people running around for every little thing... and that they are incapable of making poor judgements.

Someone picks up a phone, calls BlackBerry says "hey, how'd you like to develop the BB10 version of snapchat in house?" someone at blackberry says "sure!" yaddah yaddah yaddah, lawyers lawyers lawyers, BlackBerry gives SnapChat $$$ to cover the cost of "Hey..." phone call guy and lawyers, BlackBerry builds and maintains the app. You know, real human beings working together to move it forward because they want to. $100,000 bucks tops, and BlackBerry would pay it happily.

But SnapChat doesn't want to. Humans are funny. Many can't accept that "we don't know", so they make up stuff for what the sun is and how it was created and so on. I accept that I don't know WHY SnapChat is working so hard at NOT making a BB10 or WP version, but I don't accept made up reasons that don't make any sense.

Just explain me one thing...
Why the entitlement?
Why do you think that you have a right to get those apps? Why do you think that Snapchat has to explain it?

Apart from your beliefs that I would call delusions, after having spoken with more than one app dev (and they are very low key players only existing in the german speaking world), I seriously do not understand why you expect Netflix/Snapchat/whatever key app dev, to give you a reason why they are not developing for BB10.

They don't feel the need to develop for 0.4% of the market. Why does it need an explanation (apart from it being self-explanatory, as the 0.4% in the question, gives you the answer)?
Because you are a BlackBerry buyer and thus you are entitled to one?
Or maybe it is because...

I really don't understand why you think that you deserve an answer. It's a private business, you never wanted to use snapchat anyhow and snapchat doesn't even cost money to the end user, so just carry on with life and leave the tin foil hat at home, because there's no conspiracy against BlackBerry.

Snapchat doesn't feel the need to develop for a platform that has 10M users, might yield an extra 500k users and might disappear in 1 year.
As 2Pac already said: "That's just the way it is".

[tangozulu]

Really a first world issue here. Doubt the 3rd world sends pics of their lunch around the hood.

Posted via CB10

[RyanGermann]

But you're happy to "make up" the premise that SnapChat is working so hard to not make a BB10 or WP app.

It's more likely that not one single solitary soul at SnapChat has wasted longer than a split second with concerns over a BB10 app. Fact is they don't give a crap, have no reason to do so and won't be crapping about it in the future.

No conspiracy, they just don't care.

That's false: they're putting a lot of effort into blocking third party clients, more effort than it would take to build the BB10 version. So, they care: to block it.

[Glenn Biddle]

Maybe Snap fears this

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102658801?linkId=14041933
After 90 days BBM has a retention rate of over 80% wile Snap has a retention rate of under 25%

Posted via CB10

[Cynycl]

That's false: they're putting a lot of effort into blocking third party clients, more effort than it would take to build the BB10 version. So, they care: to block it.

Your right. They devote millions of man hours and unlimited resources to make sure your Blackberry device doesn't get an app. Now we just need to figure out if it's You or Chen they have this personal vendetta against.

[Cynycl]

Maybe Snap fears this

Surprise! We're back with T-Mobile?commentary
After 90 days BBM has a retention rate of over 80% wile Snap has a retention rate of under 25%

Posted via CB10

[Cynycl]

Really a first world issue here. Doubt the 3rd world sends pics of their lunch around the hood.

Posted via CB10

somebody cue Sally Struthers. We can fix that third world problem for less than the cost of a cup of coffee per day.

[RyanGermann]

Your right. They devote millions of man hours and unlimited resources to make sure your Blackberry device doesn't get an app. Now we just need to figure out if it's You or Chen they have this personal vendetta against.

No, not millions. Hundreds, more like... and that's STILL more than it would cost to just build the app. Implying people who think SnapChat is actively blocking development of a BB10 version are 'paranoid' or somesuch is kind of weird, considering that it's well documented that they ARE doing that. You're more than Cynycl... maybe Bttr?

[MarsupilamiX]

No, not millions. Hundreds, more like... and that's STILL more than it would cost to just build the app. Implying people who think SnapChat is actively blocking development of a BB10 version are 'paranoid' or somesuch is kind of weird, considering that it's well documented that they ARE doing that. You're more than Cynycl... maybe Bttr?

Actually...
They are blocking ALL 3rd party apps, not only BB10 ones.

So, is your conspiracy one in which Snapchat cracks down all of the 3rd party apps?
Because that's not a conspiracy, that's logical and is actively happening.

Or is your conspiracy BlackBerry related and Snapchat only blocks BlackBerries?

And you sadly didn't answer the only interesting question: why do you feel entitled to get an answer and why do you feel entitled to a BlackBerry Snapchat app?

Anyhow, Snapchat is not actively blocking the development of a BB10 app. That would imply that there are forces within Snapchat who already started/or would want to start on coding a BB10 app. Which, as much as we know, never was the case.
So yes, your proposal is paranoid.

Blocking 3rd party access, is absolutely understandable. Why do you have a problem with that?
Snapchat is neither open source nor an NGO?
Apart from the security issues, why should someone like Nemory piggyback on the success of Snapchat, for free? All the invested money and man hours, so that a kid hacks your API and profits from your work?

But all of that has already been said.
In the end, Snapchat thrived without BB10/WP8 apps and Snapchat continues to grow each day, while BBM lost 40 million users in the last few quarters.
I still wonder about your entitlement though. Why would you expect a Snapchat app on BB10 and why would you expect a thorough answer on why it's not here?

Btw, let's roll the dice and look at it from another angle:
Would you think that it's OK when Nemory hacks the BBM API's and makes a Tizen/WP app without BlackBerry's consent and then makes money off from those app sales?
Do you agree with BlackBerry's decision to not make a BBM app for Windows? Or would you say that this is part of a conspiracy against WP and Microsoft?

The whole app discussion has reached levels of idiocy, it's incredibe.
BlackBerry will have 0.2% marketshare this year, if they are lucky.
Now listen to the cold and hard truth of the matter: Nobody gives a **** about your platform if you are so irrelevant.
BlackBerry is simply too irrelevant for Snapchat to even care. Or Instagram. Or Netflix. They simply don't care for the platform.

[twiggyrj]

Would you think that it's OK when Nemory hacks the BBM API's and makes a Tizen/WP app without BlackBerry's consent and then makes money off from those app sales?
Do you agree with BlackBerry's decision to not make a BBM app for Windows? Or would you say that this is part of a conspiracy against WP and Microsoft?

I think the real conspiracy is why does BB develop an under featured and buggy BBM app for WP8. Maybe it's because they want to hinder WP8's growth! /s

Being a developer I 100% agree with what Snapchat is doing, it's their Intellectual Property and they can do what they like. If the user base is too small for THEM then they don't develop for it, every dev has their cut off point and this applies to all devs even web dev's have a cut off point of support.

[Tre Lawrence]

I think the real conspiracy is why does BB develop an under featured and buggy BBM app for WP8. Maybe it's because they want to hinder WP8's growth! /s

Being a developer I 100% agree with what Snapchat is doing, it's their Intellectual Property and they can do what they like. If the user base is too small for THEM then they don't develop for it, every dev has their cut off point and this applies to all devs even web dev's have a cut off point of support.

Well said. Exactly.

Even "mighty" Google is known to stop development on Android if the ROI isn't there.

[lnichols]

Why do people fuss over these silly apps? Grown folks acting like bloody teenagers.

Mind boggling stuff.

Posted via CB10

Just substitute SnapChat with any major business smartphone app, look at all the business BlackBerry is losing to Apple and Android in the business space because of lack of these business apps, and reevaluate your statement. BlackBerry has neither the silly app support nor the important business app support.

Posted via CB10

[DenverRalphy]

So please explain why SnapChat is expending thousands of dollars suing third party developers and blocking their apps instead of helping them "do it right" by providing the proper API'S.

Where exactly has SnapChat spent any amount of money (let alone thousands) suing third party developers? I've yet to see anything of the like (though I'd like to see stories if it were true). I've yet to see any story pop up with a cursory search through various search engines.

All I've seen, is SnapChat shutting down third party applications for security reasons. And never has it resulted in them preventing anybody from "doing it right".

[carlosmpt]

Who is going to pay SnapChat? Apple? Google? Do you think either one has any fear of BB's 10M userbase, especially as it relates to SnapChat? There are more than 1.6B Google-Certified Android devices, and more than 700M iOS devices. BB certainly isn't keeping them up at night.

So, who else? A SnapChat competitor?

Remember too that it isn't just BB, it's all the other platforms too, including WinPhone, which has a much larger userbase. Who is paying to keep SnapChat off of WinPhone, and why?

It's easy to make a business case for not supporting the smaller platforms, but no one has even tried to make a case for SnapChat being paid off by someone, for some reason...

OK we get it sensei

Posted via CB10

[Cynycl]

OK we get it sensei

Posted via CB10

Well it's about time

[GenghisKahn2011]

After reading this, http://technosocialnews.blogspot.com...opers.html?m=1

I contend that SnapChat could really benefit from BlackBerry's security knowledge.

However, after reviewing endless articles about SnapChat's endless ability to find itself the target of lawsuits, I PREFER that BlackBerry have nothing to do with SnapChat.

SnapChat marketed a concept that has not and may never really deliver on the notion of a disappearing social contact.

Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry OS 10.3.2.500 on Q10

[anon(5818411)]

After reading this, http://technosocialnews.blogspot.com...opers.html?m=1

I contend that SnapChat could really benefit from BlackBerry's security knowledge.

However, after reviewing endless articles about SnapChat's endless ability to find itself the target of lawsuits, I PREFER that BlackBerry have nothing to do with SnapChat.

SnapChat marketed a concept that has not and may never really deliver on the notion of a disappearing social contact.

Posted via CB10 using BlackBerry OS 10.3.2.500 on Q10

Snapchat does a fair job with security, 3rd party apps that store to a cloud(most 3rd party apps do which was the cause of that leak) not so much.

Posted via CB10